Plantation Shutter joints - M&T, Domino or Dowelmax

[Russell Tribby]

I've got to build some plantation shutters for a customer and I'm pondering what type of joinery I'm going to use. I don't own a dedicated mortiser, Domino or Dowelmax so whatever I decide to do I'll end up having to buy something. If you've built shutters before what would you recommend? What about owners of the aforementioned tools, what pros/cons have you found with each? Thanks in advance for the advice.

[James Hart]

Russell,

There's a You Tube video of a guy using a Domino to make plantation shutters. If you haven't seen it it's good food for thought.

Good Luck,

Jim

[Russell Tribby]

Do you have the link? I ran a quick search and didn't find anything.

[Tim Malyszko]

I have a dedicated mortiser, so that's what I'm using for my plantation shutters. If I didn't have one, I would probably look at the Domino as it seems to be the "go to" tool for low stress M&T joinery.

[Russell Tribby]

If I go with the domino it'll eat up a larger portion of my profit. I'm trying to weigh that against the time it will save. I already have a biscuit jointer. If I went with the domino I would probably sell that to help offset the cost. Do you think the domino would save me that much more time over the other two (mortiser or dowelmax) to justify the cost?

[Bruce Pennell]

Russell here an idea from FOG on the Domino and shutters. festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2438.0 (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2438.0)
Hope this helps. One thing to remember the domino will speed up all your new jobs. Hope this helps. Check out FOG just do a search on Domino and you can read for days. Good Luck Bruce

[Tim Malyszko]

If I go with the domino it'll eat up a larger portion of my profit. I'm trying to weigh that against the time it will save. I already have a biscuit jointer. If I went with the domino I would probably sell that to help offset the cost. Do you think the domino would save me that much more time over the other two (mortiser or dowelmax) to justify the cost?

For just this single project, the Domino won't save you significant time as the M&T joinery is not the time consuming portion. Long term, however, the domino would be a good option.

I really don't use my dedicated mortiser too much, but it's certainly nice to have and will cost you about 1/3 of what the domino will cost you once you throw in all the accessories.

Someday, I will buy a Domino; however, since I already own a mortiser, I'm not exactly in a rush to buy one.

One thing to keep in mind is that the stock chisels that come with the mortiser will at a minimum need to be honed, or replaced all together - they aren't exactly top quality.

[Bruce Pennell]

Tim I think the domino will save a lot of time on this project, check out the above post. Just my 2 cent...Bruce

[James Hart]

Do you have the link? I ran a quick search and didn't find anything.

Russell,

This should work;

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1FivEuxItPw

Jim

[Russell Tribby]

Well...you guys have just about convinced me to pull the trigger on the Domino. Judging from what I've read it sounds like I'll be heading down a slippery slope with my first Festool purchase. I'm going to sleep on it tonight and decide tomorrow, just in time to beat the price increase if I do.

[Bruce Pennell]

Russell remember to buy a combo. I have the CT22 vac and love it. The 33 is bigger. With the domino you need a good vac. You don't want to leave chips in the hole it can throw off your next hole. With the domino a good vac is a must.

[Guy Germaine]

I just started making shutters on Saturday. I don't have a dedicated mortiser, and the setup for my drill press wouldn't work because of the length of the pieces, and where the drill press is sitting (Not enough room to cut the center mortise). I used my router table to cut the mortises. Worked great.

[Russell Tribby]

Guy, I'm assuming you just plunged the material into the bit. Are you using loose tenons or will you be using your router table to make the tenons as well? How many shutters are you making? I'm thinking making enough for my house while I work on this job. I would love to be able to knock it out in one fell swoop.

[Russell Tribby]

Bruce is there some reason that my Ridgid shop vac that I have now wouldn't work? I use it with all my other tools and it does a great job.

[Bruce Pennell]

Russell it might, The Festool vacs are adjustable. Try it, you don't want to leave any chips in your holes. That is the one thing I discussed with the Festool rep the other day. He said never run it without a vac. I think you could but it takes away from the speed of the tool. You would have to check each hole to make sure it was clean. Speed is why you want a domino. Festool is referred to as a system, they really make everything to work together. With the Festool vac you have 2 settings manual and auto, auto is when you turn on the tool and the vac starts, off and the vac runs for a few seconds to clear the dust out. Nice... Try your vac, if it doesn't clear your holes get a CT vac. You do save money on the combo. The only bad thing I have heard about the Festool vacs are the plastic wheels, some guys wish they where rubber coated. The biggest benefit is when you go to a job your Festool set up puts out about zero dust, customers love it! Remember Festool offers a 30 day money back guarantee, if it doesn't work like it should take it back and get your money back. I don't know of any company making that offer. Good Luck Bruce

[J. Z. Guest]

Russell,

If you can do mortises on the drill press and tenons with a table saw/dado or router table, that would save the cost of the Domino.

However, since you seem to do this professionally, the Domino would probably pay for itself in saved time on future projects.

I've read (and others will confirm or deny) that The $700 cost of Domino is deceptive, and you really need to spend about $1,000 to get going with it.

I have a Dowelmax and just love it. It costs 1/3 of what Domino costs, is at least as versatile as Domino, makes stronger joints, but isn't as quick. (according to the recent WOOD magazine article on loose tenon tools)

So you'll have to decide on time vs. money between the Domino & Dowelmax.

You can do M&T without a dedicated mortiser. I'm turned off by mortisers because of the alignment and honing that needs to be done every so often. Also, it's another stationary tool that needs to be stored.

[Russell Tribby]

Jeremy, thanks for your insight. I am trying to weigh the cost vs. time issue out in my head. I don't really do this professionally. I am a teacher, coach and father of three, whose time in the shop is limited and needs to be spent wisely. My family really depends on these jobs to help us make it so I'm always looking for things that will help me be more efficient
Bruce, if I go with the Domino I think I'll try my vac first. Like I said it does a great job with the tools I have now and the $ I'd be spending on the tool and the Domino assortments will be enought already.

[Bruce Pennell]

Russell the combo with cross stops, Ct22, and domino is $1132.50, you would only need the 5mm domino's for your shutters, a case of domino's (1800) is $65. Everyone I've talked to uses the smaller domino's mostly 5 and 6mm. It's a big investment, but what is your time worth. If your doing a house full of shutters how much time (MONEY) will you save?

[Eric Gustafson]

Something to think about is the Dominio will cost more tommorrow as the price increase goes in effect then.

[Russell Tribby]

No thanks to Bruce ;), I decided to pull the trigger on the combo package with the smaller vac. Festool's return policy is reassuring so if I'm not happy with it at least I can send it back. In the few emails I've exchanged with Bob Marino today I can already see what everyone has been raving about. I love dealing with people that have mastered the art of customer service.

[Peter Quadarella]

I have the Ridgid W1850 and it seems to work fine with my Domino.

[Bruce Pennell]

Russell enjoy your new toy's, you are going to have lots of fun. The learning curve is quite quick. Plunge slowly keeping good forward pressure on the front handle/knob. I found gripping around the plug in end gave me the best plunge cut's. You might want to check out FOG (http://festoolownersgroup.com//) (Festools Owners Group) and here's some links to the Domino.
Gary Katz review (http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/festool_domino.htm)
Bill E's Review (http://nhwoodworker.com/)
Rick Christoherson's Manua (http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/Domino_DF_500.pdf)l
Consolidated List of Festool Products (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1185.0)

The most common mistake people make is plunging on top of a work table. It is best to have your work hanging off the edge of the table. That way you always reference off the tool and not the table. (personal experience)
The Festool rep showed me how to line up a out in the open domino with the 3 point system. Basically make a 5" pencil line cross. Install your support bracket, line up your bracket (line in the middle) with your center line, then line the upper part of your base (both sides) with the other line. Nice trick to know. Enjoy and Good Luck

[Guy Germaine]

Guy, I'm assuming you just plunged the material into the bit. Are you using loose tenons or will you be using your router table to make the tenons as well? How many shutters are you making? I'm thinking making enough for my house while I work on this job. I would love to be able to knock it out in one fell swoop.

Yes, I just plunged the piece into the bit. I did it in several passes. I just make marks on the pieces showing the beginning and end of the mortise, then mark the edges of the router bit on my table. Plunge the piece down onto the bit, and route to both lines. I also turned each piece around and ran it through again, just to make sure they were perfectly centered. I made the tenons on the table saw with a tenoning jig.

I am making 2 sets right now. These will go in the Front room and be painted white. They're made out of Poplar and Basswood. The next 2 sets I make will be for the dining room and will be made out of cherry to match the floor.

[Paul Johnstone]

If I go with the domino it'll eat up a larger portion of my profit. I'm trying to weigh that against the time it will save. I already have a biscuit jointer. If I went with the domino I would probably sell that to help offset the cost. Do you think the domino would save me that much more time over the other two (mortiser or dowelmax) to justify the cost?

You could probably sell the domino for $20-100 less than you paid for it, quite easily. I recently bought one.. and it seemed that all the used ones on ebay went for pretty close to new price after shipping. IMO, it wasn't worth it to take the chance on used.

On the other hand, if you get the domino, it may help you become more productive on future products, and they are only likely to get more expensive in the near future.. You say you are building this for a customer. I think if you are doing woodworking for profit, then a domino makes a lot of sense. Sure, you will take a hit on this project, but it will speed up future products.

My advice is to buy it, and then after you build the shutters, decide if it's worthwhile to keep it.

Another option is that I think the Leigh FMT jig has a template for doing shutters. That would probably be even faster than a domino. I am not 100% sure though. I'm guessing the FMT would be faster because after the initial setup, you could really crank through them. In contrast, it would probably take more time to position the domino at the correct angle each time.. but then again, I have a domino but have had no time to try it out yet.

[Russell Tribby]

The shutters I'm making will be active so the Leigh jig wouldn't work, nor would it work to use the Domino to cut holes for the slats. I'm looking forward to receiving the tool and putting it to work. You make a good point about resale value, I never thought of that.




You could probably sell the domino for $20-100 less than you paid for it, quite easily. I recently bought one.. and it seemed that all the used ones on ebay went for pretty close to new price after shipping. IMO, it wasn't worth it to take the chance on used.

On the other hand, if you get the domino, it may help you become more productive on future products, and they are only likely to get more expensive in the near future.. You say you are building this for a customer. I think if you are doing woodworking for profit, then a domino makes a lot of sense. Sure, you will take a hit on this project, but it will speed up future products.

My advice is to buy it, and then after you build the shutters, decide if it's worthwhile to keep it.

Another option is that I think the Leigh FMT jig has a template for doing shutters. That would probably be even faster than a domino. I am not 100% sure though. I'm guessing the FMT would be faster because after the initial setup, you could really crank through them. In contrast, it would probably take more time to position the domino at the correct angle each time.. but then again, I have a domino but have had no time to try it out yet.