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View Full Version : Phil Thien's Baffle (on a DC) Seems to Work



Mike Goetzke
03-29-2008, 11:25 PM
I have a Jet DC1100 w/ cartridge. I joined and planed a bag full:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Dust/Baffle/IMG_1955_1_1.jpg

..and after cranking the paddles and beating the sides of the cartridge this is what was left:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Dust/Baffle/IMG_1956_1_1.jpg


I replaced all my 4" ducting w/ 6" and it really made a big difference in DC performance. I also mounted the blower assembly at ceiling level....but I have a small (I hope) problem. Out of necessity, I have a "T" close to the blower inlet. With the volume/momentum of chips generated by my planer a portion of the chips are accumulating in a duct on the other side of the "T". They clear out once I open the other gate but it never had this with my 4" ducting. I'm thinking I may need to add 6" gates close to the blower inlet.

Mike

David Stonner
03-30-2008, 12:47 AM
Mike,

Would you mind posting a photo of the whole setup? I'm not visualizing how you have the blower mounted at ceiling level. Also, is the photo of the dust residue of the baffle system?

Thanks,
Dave

Phil Thien
03-30-2008, 1:00 AM
Nice work!

I had another modder tell me that adding the baffle really raised the bar on his cyclone aspirations. As he saw it, going to either an older (used) or newer entry-level cyclone was pointless, as his single-stage DC w/ the baffle provided separation that was nearly as good as a friend's 5 YO cyclone, but without the CFM hit or the added noise.

Dave MacArthur
03-30-2008, 2:00 AM
Can we get a link to a thread explaining this baffle? I have a Delta 1.5HP 50-760, and would really like to maximize it's performance and stave off impending cyclonage!

Phil Thien
03-30-2008, 9:59 AM
Can we get a link to a thread explaining this baffle? I have a Delta 1.5HP 50-760, and would really like to maximize it's performance and stave off impending cyclonage!

For those wishing to modify existing single-stage DC's:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=74713

For those wishing to make a separator lid:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=69765

Mike Goetzke
03-30-2008, 11:10 AM
Mike,

Would you mind posting a photo of the whole setup? I'm not visualizing how you have the blower mounted at ceiling level. Also, is the photo of the dust residue of the baffle system?

Thanks,
Dave

The dust residue (laying on top of the DC ring and baffle plate) is what came out of the cartridge filter. From my past experience, I got maybe 10x that amount w/o the baffle.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Dust/Baffle/IMG_1958_1.jpg

(Why do these photos always show the cob webs so well:eek:. I know it's not the best layout for piping, but, in a garage shop that I still need to park one car in it's the best I can do.)


Mike

Greg Peterson
03-30-2008, 12:15 PM
Mike, very interesting. A hybrid DC. Very ingenious. Further evidence that necessity is the mother of invention.

Great idea!

Mike Goetzke
03-30-2008, 12:37 PM
Mike, very interesting. A hybrid DC. Very ingenious. Further evidence that necessity is the mother of invention.

Great idea!

Thanks, but, I can't take all the credit. I saw this done somewhere else. I originally had almost a 50' run to my TS. I always wanted to move the DC to the spot you see above but due to space limitations it didn't fit. Well, until I mounted the blower to the ceiling. I was thinking of getting a small cyclone but after moving the DC and adding 6" ducting it's like a new machine.

Mike

Bob Hallowell
03-30-2008, 2:55 PM
Phil,
I would like to try this and with the little dust getting through I think I could take the bag off the top and exaust outside.

I have a couple questions though. I can't tell from the other thread is the baffle on the top of the inlet of bottom? do you have more pics of this?

Thanks,
Bob

Bob Hallowell
03-30-2008, 2:56 PM
Mike, Very nice I think I might try the same thing with an older 2hp grizz I have.

Phil Thien
03-30-2008, 3:04 PM
Phil,
I would like to try this and with the little dust getting through I think I could take the bag off the top and exaust outside.

I have a couple questions though. I can't tell from the other thread is the baffle on the top of the inlet of bottom? do you have more pics of this?

Thanks,
Bob

The baffle is under the inlet. I have heard very positive reports of venting outside. I have tried it myself with excellent results.

Dave MacArthur
03-30-2008, 9:04 PM
... hrm. I read the other threads, and I'm still confused...
I guess I need a drawing of what was added. :(

Edward Warren
04-08-2008, 12:31 AM
To vent outside are you guys removing the top canister altogether?

David Giles
04-08-2008, 4:15 PM
Ed, my 1.5Hp Jet is located outside. Replacing all upstream duct and machine ports to 6" made a huge increase in air flow. Dust collection is adequate for my relatively open shop setup.

Removing the canister top did a lot for increasing the air flow, but it created a chip collection problem. The increased flow rate makes a tornado in the lower bag, pulling chips out as fast as they go in. I tried different methods of collecting the chips unsuccessfully including oversized trash cans and oversized trash bags. Phil Thien's modification worked best and was easy to install. Thanks Phil!

You will still have some dust and chips escape the DC, but not enough to be a major problem. I installed the DC in a 3'x6'w plastic shed which I clean out occassionally.

I still have to find a good way to attach trash bags to the outside of the DC.

Edward Warren
04-08-2008, 4:41 PM
So you still have the canister in place, but it's open on top?

David Giles
04-08-2008, 9:56 PM
The entire canister is gone leaving only the metal body. It's a real short distance from the inlet to the discharge port! Basically, it just spins out the larger particles. I expect that the smaller particles float away into the yard where they are washed to a drain by our frequent rains.

Like I said, acceptable performance for a shop that has rollup doors on both ends and a cross breeze. Not great, but acceptable.

jim oakes
04-09-2008, 1:07 AM
If you duct the fine dust outside,is it loud? The neighbors might hate me. Would the sound be muffled if I blew the air/dust down say 6'' off the ground?

I don't have DC now but this sounds simple and easy.

I have radiant infrared heat( it heats the objects under it not the air) so this might be fairly energy efficient. I wouldn't want to blow a lot of air
outside if I had conventional heat that warmed the air.

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas.

Edward Warren
04-09-2008, 8:32 AM
Mike/David,

Do you have an upper baffle with a 7 "or 8" hole in the center, or just a single lower one with a 240 degree cutout around the edge?

Also, Mike - I PM'd you.

Thanks-

Mike Goetzke
04-09-2008, 8:55 AM
So you still have the canister in place, but it's open on top?

Interesting, I live in the Chicago area so I heat and air condition my shop at times, but, most of the time they aren't necessary. If I could vent outside from the top of my canister w/gate that would be a perfect setup.

Mike

David Giles
04-09-2008, 6:29 PM
Edward, I just have the PT baffle below the inlet. The 7-8" top opening free vents into the plastic shed which has a spring opening door and various holes in the side. It hasn't seen much use since it was installed. Been busy putting French cleats on the walls and installing air conditioner #9. When I use it for a while, I'll post some pictures on the low cost setup.

Edward Warren
04-11-2008, 4:28 PM
Thanks for all the input so far from everyone.

I am going to install a DC system in my limited space garage and am trying to be as efficient with my space, time, and money as possible. I believe what I'll end up doing is a PT baffle in my 2hp DC, but then removing the top filter and putting a big "can" up there with an 8" or 10" chimney to exit high on my roof, almost 30 feet up and on the backside of my house. The 8" duct is twice the area of the 6" duct while the 10" is 3x the area of the 6". I just can't imagine any significant debris making it that high up in an oversized duct with a PT baffle provided the PT baffle is as good as people are experiencing.

If this all works out, my DC can be out of the way with the only accessible part being the collection bin on the bottom.

BTW, are you guys still using a 1.25"gap for the 240 degree cut-out?

Alan Schwabacher
04-11-2008, 5:00 PM
Dave MacArthur:

If you are confused about what the setup is, start by looking at the first of Phil Thein's links provided above:

For those wishing to modify existing single-stage DC's:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=74713

In that thread are two photos. The first shows you what the DC looks like from on top, if you take off the filter. You see the metal ring with a hole in the center that is a part of the original DC. Through the hole, you can see the baffle.

The second photo is a shot looking up from underneath, with the bag removed. You see mostly the Thein baffle. Note where the inlet comes in, and that the baffle covers the bottom with a 1 1/4" gap, except for a region near the inlet. The orientation of the baffle opening to the inlet is probably very important.

So all you need to do to modify the DC is to make and install the Thein baffle. Where do you put it? It is placed (as stated by Phil) 1" below the bottom of the inlet. Note that the metal ring is parallel, but above the inlet.

I hope this helped.

Alan

Edited to correct 1 1/2" to 1 1/4".

David Giles
04-11-2008, 11:20 PM
Edward,
I used the 1.25" gap, 270 degree angle. My only change was to attach a garbage bag to the outside of the DC which let me lower the PT baffle another 3/4".

Let us know how your elevated air discharge works out. I've wondered about the impact, but never messed with doing anything. Sounds like a good idea.

Edward Warren
05-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Another detail question for Mike et al:

It looks like in your photo that you have a 6" duct going down from the impeller/blower, and then you reduce it to 5" just before the 90 degree going into the separator. Am I correct?

And - do most 1.5hp and 2hp DCs have a 5" inlet to the separator?

I was surprised when I actually took a look at mine and measured it (a grizzly 2hp). I expected it to be 6" and it is closer to 5". I am wondering if I should modify it to 6".