Question: Paring handcut tails

[Alex Shanku]

Good morning all.

Just a quick question regarding the paring of handcut tails when making dovetails.

After one has removed the bulk of the waste, how do you go about cleaning up the end grain aspect of the joint? (1)Do you pare in from the endgrain moving the chisel in the direction of the grain and following the angled scribe line defining the tail, or (2)do you pare down into the face grain following the square layout line across the endgrain?

Hopefully my description is worded in a way that you can visualize what I am asking.

I have had the most success using the second method I described, FWIW.

Also, on some joints where the pins are very small, I realize there may not be enough room between tails to pare as in example (1)

Thanks

Alex

[mike holden]

Good Morning Alex!
Up early I see. Alex, If you are asking how I would pare the angled face of the dovetails, the short answer is: I wouldn't. That angle is defined by the saw cut.
Note that I cut tails first, but I imagine that when it comes time to fit the joint, paring down the pins would be just as easy in a pins first set of cuts. After all, once both pins and tails are cut, there is no way to determine which came first.

Mike

[Wilbur Pan]

Just to try to expand on Mike's good advice:

Whether you cut tails first or pins first, the only paring should be done on whatever you cut second.

Having said that, if I need to tweak a dovetail joint, I pare in from the endgrain moving the chisel in the direction of the grain, as you say.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Wilbur,

A big thank you! I've been hand cutting dovetails for more than several years, and sometimes do this side first, sometimes the other side first. I can never remember what each is called. You put it perfectly in perspestive: saw cut on the first, pare the second.

Reminded me of US Grant's statement on songs he liked. He said there were two, one was Yankee Doodle and the other wasn't.

Tony Z.

[Mark Stutz]

I agree...no paring on the first...tails for me. However, when paring the pins, I come in from the face side of the long grain rather than down from the end grain. Less likely to have the cut split along the grain. Not like to happen with thin paring cuts, but not impossible. Of course, if Rob Cosman is reading this, he'd tell us it should fit off the saw cuts! I'm working on it Rob!:D

[Derek Cohen]

After one has removed the bulk of the waste, how do you go about cleaning up the end grain aspect of the joint? (1)Do you pare in from the endgrain moving the chisel in the direction of the grain and following the angled scribe line defining the tail, or (2)do you pare down into the face grain following the square layout line across the endgrain?


Alex

I must be living on a different planet as I seem to understand your question in a separate contex to the others here.

I think that you are asling how one pares to the baseline of the tails after removing the waste, such as with a fretsaw (all this after sawing the tails).

This is always done from the outside and towards the centre of the endgrain - but only half way through the thickness.

There are two methods one might use.

(1) Pare straight down using a block of wood against the baseline as a fence to guide the chisel in a vertical cut.

(2) Add a slight undercut, so as to ensure that there are no humps to prevent the pins lying flat across the tails.

When paring, always work your way towards the baseline cut. If you attempt to pare too thick a slice you will cause the endgrain to break out. The final paring should be with the chisel in the cut line.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Alex Yeilding]

Note that I cut tails first, but I imagine that when it comes time to fit the joint, paring down the pins would be just as easy in a pins first set of cuts. After all, once both pins and tails are cut, there is no way to determine which came first.

Well said. But subsequent responders have indicated a preference for paring the more recently cut half of the joint. Wilbur, Tony, and Mark: Why? I cut tails first, and do find the pins easier to pare (in the manner Mark describes) if needed. But if I cut pins first, is there some reason they would then be harder to pare? I think the choice (for me, the open space and grain orientation) is independent of what is cut first. What am I missing here?

And as Mark says, the goal is no paring, except to the baseline as Derek describes.

[Mark Singer]

Alex as you chisel to remove the waste angle the chisel to overcut a bit. The slight void will be in the center of the joint and not visible. this is mechanically a strong joint so don't worry. The overcut should be subtle and will greatly reduce or eliminate any clean up after waste is removed.

[Steve Hamlin]

Well said. But subsequent responders have indicated a preference for paring the more recently cut half of the joint. Wilbur, Tony, and Mark: Why?
(snipped)

The rationale I use for only paring the second cut sockets is that those first cut were used to define the second, so by definition it is the later cut which is at fault.
The exception would be if I fouled up the perpendicular aspect of my first cuts (tails for me, so I mean the kerf in the end grain not being quite square to the face), I would try to correct that *before* using the tails to mark out the pins.

Cheers
Steve

[Alex Yeilding]

The rationale I use for only paring the second cut sockets is that those first cut were used to define the second, so by definition it is the later cut which is at fault.
Good point. If you are trying to make the joint fit the layout you originally planned (I don't usually care about precision in DT spacing), there would indeed be a second possible source of error in the second-cut part of the joint. However, when I mismark, the result is almost aways an undersized pin, which no amount of paring will help :eek:

And for me, it's just as likely that my first cut is fat of the line, so if I were to care about precision in spacing, I would have to evaluate each piece compared to desired measurements.

[Wilbur Pan]

Well said. But subsequent responders have indicated a preference for paring the more recently cut half of the joint. Wilbur, Tony, and Mark: Why? I cut tails first, and do find the pins easier to pare (in the manner Mark describes) if needed. But if I cut pins first, is there some reason they would then be harder to pare?

Steve beat me to answering your first question, except that he wrote it in a much better manner than I would have done. ;)

I hope I'm getting your second question right.

If you cut pins first, I don't think that there is any reason why paring the tails board (again, any paring should be done on whichever board gets cut second) would be necessarily any more difficult than cutting tails first, and then paring the pins board.

[Mark Stutz]

Steve said it much beter than I would have. I find it awkward to pare the sides of tails. You have to constantly shift the board in the vise, or else you are paring at an angle. The pins are always vertical.

Mark

[Alex Yeilding]

I find it awkward to pare the sides of tails. You have to constantly shift the board in the vise, or else you are paring at an angle. The pins are always vertical.

Exactly. That's why I would choose to pare the pins, whether I cut them first or second.

[Alex Yeilding]

If you cut pins first, I don't think that there is any reason why paring the tails board (again, any paring should be done on whichever board gets cut second) would be necessarily any more difficult than cutting tails first, and then paring the pins board.

Okay. Guess it's just different strokes for different folks. I find tails harder to pare because of the tight spacing between them (using small pins) and the semi-end-grain nature of the cut on the sloped sides. And cutting them second wouldn't make that any easier for me.