Tool Battery Repair

[Nick Jan]

Anyone ever try this "nicad battery fix"? I found it at www.nicadbatteryfix.com (http://www.nicadbatteryfix.com) its only $3.99

I have a couple 18v Dewalts that are nearly dead. I've read some people have had good luck with a repair called "battery ressurection" also found on the net, but thats like $12.95. There suppose to fix what is commonly reffered to as "memory effect"

I think I am going to give it a try, just wondered if anyone else has used such a thing? If it works only for a month, It would be worth the price to me. Considering 18v Dewalts are $50 a piece. Thanks

[Mike Henderson]

My experience with DeWalt batteries is that when they start failing, they keep failing. I've tried some of those "fixes" and none I've tried have done anything to rejuvenate the battery.

I think you'd be wasting your money. If you do try it, post the results here.

Mike

[Greg Ware]

A friend just got a couple back from a company that rebuilds them. Amazing results, they are better than when new. He said the cost was a lot less than a new battery. They will rebuild it with the same type cells or you can upgrade and get a much better battery than what you bought new. Here is the link, www.primecell.com.

Greg

[Greg Hines, MD]

I once read that by freezing standard NiCad batteries, you can get extra life out of them. I tried it one time but it did not seem to make any difference.Doc

[Nick Jan]

Well so far so good, I bought the book about an hour ago, got it sent by email, in a link to download almost immedietly, which was cool that they do what they advertise.

I ran over the steps quickly with one of my 18v dewalts that had read about 4 volts after a charge.

There are 3 or 4 differant ways they list on how to repair a battery. I guess it depends on the severety of the damage.

After about 10 minutes, a volt-meter, and some alligator clipped wires, I had a battery that was reading about 17.5 volts. I am going to try it once more on the same battery to see if I can get anymore out of it.

The book tells me to completely drain the battery, then give it a full charge before I do it again. So I will, to be safe.

Well to my amasement, so far it looks like it works. I do need to try the other battery, and I can comment again on it. Maybe I got lucky on the first one. :cool:

[glenn bradley]

Pay yourself $1 and hour and the time you waste will pay for a rebild. MTO Battery owner is a member here. Did 4 recently and had them upgraded to the higher mha level and it still cost less than new (lesser) batteries.

[Mike Henderson]

Pay yourself $1 and hour and the time you waste will pay for a rebild. MTO Battery owner is a member here. Did 4 recently and had them upgraded to the higher mha level and it still cost less than new (lesser) batteries.
I agree with Glenn. Those "fixes" never work long term - meaning that even if the battery takes a charge, it runs down so fast it's not usable.

If there was some "fix" the battery manufacturers would have put it into their chargers. And if you're skeptical that the manufacturer would do it because they could sell you a new battery, they'd be some entrepreneure making a third party battery charger that would extend the life of batteries (actually, some entrepreneures have tried but none of their chargers that I've tried have worked any better than the manufacturer's chargers).

Save yourself some time and money and get a new battery or have the old battery rebuilt.

Mike

[Ken Werner]

Nick, please post a follow-up to your results. Good if it works right away, better if it actually lasts....

Ken

[Nick Jan]

I agree with Glenn. Those "fixes" never work long term - meaning that even if the battery takes a charge, it runs down so fast it's not usable.

If there was some "fix" the battery manufacturers would have put it into their chargers. And if you're skeptical that the manufacturer would do it because they could sell you a new battery, they'd be some entrepreneure making a third party battery charger that would extend the life of batteries (actually, some entrepreneures have tried but none of their chargers that I've tried have worked any better than the manufacturer's chargers).

Save yourself some time and money and get a new battery or have the old battery rebuilt.

Mike

I would like to believe that the battery manufacturers want are batteries to last forever, but yes they do need us to buy new batteries. I am un-aware of any aftermarket chargers. Can you link to a site that shows an example? You have to wonder if somebody created a battery charger that "fixed" old batteries to run like new, the big companies like Black & Decker {dewalt} would step in and either buy them out, or file an "Intellectual Property" lawsuit. The big companies can protect there products rights like that.

I think this Ni-Cad battery Fix guy gets away with this because it's a "technique" he's selling, not a product.

I'm sure it's to everyones surprise and mine, both of my 18v dewalts are holding a charge, and seem pretty strong. I can't stop the chuck with my hand, not even close.

I think the real test will be time. I am far from wealthy, but like I already said, if this gets me a month more use for $3.99, I'm a happy customer.

I will keep this post updated. If its good info, and it seems it is, everyone should know about it.

[Mike Henderson]

I am un-aware of any aftermarket chargers. Can you link to a site that shows an example?
Sure - see here (http://www.10ctech.com/). I tried it on several DeWalt batteries and none of them were "revived".

It's expensive, too.

Mike

[Randal Stevenson]

I would like to believe that the battery manufacturers want are batteries to last forever, but yes they do need us to buy new batteries. I am un-aware of any aftermarket chargers. Can you link to a site that shows an example? You have to wonder if somebody created a battery charger that "fixed" old batteries to run like new, the big companies like Black & Decker {dewalt} would step in and either buy them out, or file an "Intellectual Property" lawsuit. The big companies can protect there products rights like that.

I think this Ni-Cad battery Fix guy gets away with this because it's a "technique" he's selling, not a product.

I'm sure it's to everyones surprise and mine, both of my 18v dewalts are holding a charge, and seem pretty strong. I can't stop the chuck with my hand, not even close.

I think the real test will be time. I am far from wealthy, but like I already said, if this gets me a month more use for $3.99, I'm a happy customer.

I will keep this post updated. If its good info, and it seems it is, everyone should know about it.


Sure - see here (http://www.10ctech.com/). I tried it on several DeWalt batteries and none of them were "revived".

It's expensive, too.

Mike

Now Mike, if you could find me a charger and batteries that would power my old 9.6 stick Makita's, with Lithium instead of Nicad.........

They STILL run, and I recently inherited 3 more from a friend (now have 5).

[Michael Gibbons]

My Delta 14.4v batteries took a dump on me so last Sat I purchased that new Makita 18v litium ion dril/driver. It received the Editors Choice in the latest issue of popular woodworking. Seems to be a pretty stout unit, fast recharge times and actually lighter than the Delta. On the new unit, you can tighten the bit with one hand which is nice. I can't tell for sure but my Delta will charge but discharge on it's own quite quickly. I think the drill has a short which is draining the battery.

[Nick Jan]

Thanks for the link. I have seen that charger before but never in use, it looks like a quality piece. I didn't see a price on the site, how much did you pay for it?

Is it better used as a multi-port charger, than a "Reviving" charger?

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for the link. I have seen that charger before but never in use, it looks like a quality piece. I didn't see a price on the site, how much did you pay for it?

Is it better used as a multi-port charger, than a "Reviving" charger?
It didn't work to "revive" any of the batteries I have, and I doubt if anything revives a dead battery (except those with memory problems). Anyway, you can find the multi-port here (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17899) ($400) and the single port here (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18525) ($125). They're available at other places - just google.

Let me point out that you also have to buy the adaptor for the type of batteries you're using - at about $20 per adaptor.

Mike

[jim oakes]

Well so far so good, I bought the book about an hour ago, got it sent by email, in a link to download almost immedietly, which was cool that they do what they advertise.

I ran over the steps quickly with one of my 18v dewalts that had read about 4 volts after a charge.

There are 3 or 4 differant ways they list on how to repair a battery. I guess it depends on the severety of the damage.

After about 10 minutes, a volt-meter, and some alligator clipped wires, I had a battery that was reading about 17.5 volts. I am going to try it once more on the same battery to see if I can get anymore out of it.

The book tells me to completely drain the battery, then give it a full charge before I do it again. So I will, to be safe.

Well to my amasement, so far it looks like it works. I do need to try the other battery, and I can comment again on it. Maybe I got lucky on the first one. :cool:

Hi Nick,
What are the 3 or 4 ways to repair a dead battery?

Thanks

[Nick Jan]

It didn't work to "revive" any of the batteries I have, and I doubt if anything revives a dead battery (except those with memory problems). Anyway, you can find the multi-port here (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17899) ($400) and the single port here (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18525) ($125). They're available at other places - just google.

Let me point out that you also have to buy the adaptor for the type of batteries you're using - at about $20 per adaptor.

Mike
Thanks for the links. Prices are way to high for me!
My $3.99 purchase is working great for now!

[Greg Hines, MD]

Thanks for the links. Prices are way to high for me!
My $3.99 purchase is working great for now!


Those of us with our cheap batteries will be interested in keeping this tread going long enough to tell if what you did is a permanent or even semi-permanent solution.

Not to try to get the companies secret out of you, but what kind of things do they have you do? Do you soak the batteries in something, or freeze them, etc? Any clues you can divulge?

As to the company you mention, what do you know about them? Are they reliable? I hate to give out my info to strangers.

Doc

[jim oakes]

Originally Posted by Nick Jan http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=815611#post815611)
Well so far so good, I bought the book about an hour ago, got it sent by email, in a link to download almost immedietly, which was cool that they do what they advertise.

I ran over the steps quickly with one of my 18v dewalts that had read about 4 volts after a charge.

There are 3 or 4 differant ways they list on how to repair a battery. I guess it depends on the severety of the damage.

After about 10 minutes, a volt-meter, and some alligator clipped wires, I had a battery that was reading about 17.5 volts. I am going to try it once more on the same battery to see if I can get anymore out of it.

The book tells me to completely drain the battery, then give it a full charge before I do it again. So I will, to be safe.

Well to my amasement, so far it looks like it works. I do need to try the other battery, and I can comment again on it. Maybe I got lucky on the first one. :cool:
Hi Nick,
What are the 3 or 4 ways to repair a dead battery?

Thanks

[Mike Henderson]

The question of how to revive a dead battery has been examined many times in the forum. Nobody has ever shown a system that works.

And just to be a bit skeptical, note that the OP was the first posting to this forum and it includes a pointer to a web site that sells the "technique".

I'd want more than the OP's word that the technique "works" before I'd plunk down any money.

Mike

[And if there really was some "technique" that worked, how many nanoseconds do you think it would be before it was posted on the Internet?]

[Nick Jan]

If you guys have some specific questions, I will do my best to answer them. Carefully

You need to think about copyright protection, thats why its not all over the net. I really dont want to risk a lawsuit on myself. I also paid for the info I have, why would I want to give it all away.

I don't understand why all the nay-sayers, if it works, it works. Whats the big deal?

[Nick Jan]

The question of how to revive a dead battery has been examined many times in the forum. Nobody has ever shown a system that works.

And just to be a bit skeptical, note that the OP was the first posting to this forum and it includes a pointer to a web site that sells the "technique".

I'd want more than the OP's word that the technique "works" before I'd plunk down any money.

Mike

[And if there really was some "technique" that worked, how many nanoseconds do you think it would be before it was posted on the Internet?]

Mike, it seems like your implying I'm the owner of this website in question? Actually I own the website that can be found HERE (http://www.glapc.com). I sell and install Auto Pool Covers. Do you like my site, I've recently made some major updates. Check out some of the photos, we see some awesome homes selling these things. They range from 8 to about $20,000 - Very High End!
If you have a pool, send me an email through the "installation" contact, you'll see my name, I can respond immediatly.

I found the nicad battery fix (http://www.nicadbatteryfix.com) site while searching for a battery repair. I have 12 trucks on the road atleast 9 months out of the year here in Mi. Each truck has minimum 8 batteries on it at a time. Every year, I had to buy 1-2 batteries for every truck, you see this could get expensive right.

I haven't had time, but I've got a box of probably 40-50 batteries that I will be trying this on. So far the 18v dewalts I originally tried are still going strong. Maybe I got lucky :rolleyes:

-----Nick

[Jason Abel]

If it's the one I read they have you take the battery apart and check the voltage on each individual cell inside the battery pack. Each cell registering 0V or lower then the other cells gets zapped (touched 1-2 seconds) with a 12V lead acid battery to bring the voltage up. This sometimes temporarily fixes a cell that went bad. Long term this doesn't fix a dead battery but it can prolong a pack starting the downhill slide.

Jason Abel
Battery Builders / MTO Battery

[Ken Garlock]

First off, Jason Abel runs a battery rebuild company. I have had my 12V DeWalt batteries rebuilt by Jason. He did an excellent job and I got two retuilt for about the price on one from DeWalt. I highly recommend Jason (http://www.mtobattery.com/store/).

Second, Rant: Please DO NOT QUOTE SO MUCH. It adds nothing to the thread and only takes up bandwidth. Quoting a line or two from a post to zero in on a point is just fine, but please not the entire post. End Rant.:(

Curmudgeon at large. ;)

[Darren Salyer]

Mike, it seems like your implying I'm the owner of this website in question?

I will say I had the same thought myself.


{quote}I haven't had time, but I've got a box of probably 40-50 batteries that I will be trying this on. So far the 18v dewalts I originally tried are still going strong. Maybe I got lucky :rolleyes:-----Nick

I'd love to see a picture of 40-50 revived batteries all in one place.

[Jason Christenson]

You need to think about copyright protection, thats why its not all over the net.

Lol. I'm fairly sure there's no copyright issues if you share some basic knowledge you learned from a book. This is sounding more and more like a scam.

Jason

[Jerome Hanby]

Most of those resurrection methods involve higher voltage jolts intended to burn out the little filaments that NiCads can "grow" causing shorts in the cells. If you have several identical batteries AND you can get into them without tearing the cases all to pieces, you might be able to identify bad cells and mix and match good cells to "fix" some of them. Not sure about the cells in a battery powered tool battery, but the guy at Batteries Plus was able to rebuild the pack in one of my cordless phones with NiMH cells in place of the Nicads for just a little more than a replacement NiCad pack would cost. The talk time pretty much tripled and the off base time went from days to weeks! Since batteries just keep getting better, even a rebuild using the same kind of cells could very well be better than the battery was when new!

[Bill Edwards(2)]

I always assumed "The fix" for batteries that didn't have a dead cell or cells was based on polarity. And jolting the battery with a higher voltage put the cell or cells whose polarity had switched back to normal.

After discussing this with my buddy, his wife brought him her cell phone and said I just charged this but I'm getting nothing. He took the battery off and slapped it down hard on a telephone book and put it back on the phone and it showed fully charged,

Go figure.

I find the rebuild service very interesting. I hope enough people get into it to create a competative price.

[michael osadchuk]

.... an "open source" repository of end user information of managing nicads might be internet forums on radio control model aircraft wherein electric motors, rather than internal combustion engines are used for propulsion; I haven't messed around in that hobby for more than a decade - before internet forums became common - but even back then r/c modelers using nicads for propulsion were discussing in the hobby's paper magazines techniques of matching individual batteries in a pack for resistance, etc. to get the most power, as well as "resurecting" batteries thru an high amp momentary shock, etc.
I don't know current beliefs in that hobby about these methods but I suspect that they are better informed than we as amateur woodworkers about creditable methods consumer available to end users with a ditigal voltmeter to get the most out of nicads.

michael

[Jerome Hanby]

I see something similar with my cell phone from time to time. Usually removing it from the phone for awhile clears the condition. Between the electronics in the phone and the electronics in the Lion battery things must get out of sync...


After discussing this with my buddy, his wife brought him her cell phone and said I just charged this but I'm getting nothing. He took the battery off and slapped it down hard on a telephone book and put it back on the phone and it showed fully charged,

[Nick Jan]

"I'd love to see a picture of 40-50 revived batteries all in one place."

Darren,
Will this work for ya. I haven't counted them, looks like 40 or 50 right? They are not revived yet, but they are the reason for this thread :D

Sounds like the r/c car guys know about this type of fix. Looks like it won't last for too long, but its worth a try, you can see I have some $$$ into batteries.

[Nick Jan]

Yes, one of the repairs in this book does involve hooking up "good" batteries in a series creating a high voltage to burst the "crystals" or "hairs" in the cells. It seems like this could be dangerous if not done properly.

I don't know exaxtly what causes these hairs. I've read it can be caused by overcharging, or running the battery completely dead while under a load, like when you need to cut 3 more inches of the board, and the saw stops, and starts, until it won't go anymore.

[Ed Gerken]

Hello to the group!

My first post here after lurking a few days. Electronics is my first love but I'm also a photographer, a woodworker, metal detectorist and radio nut. I have used "dischargeable" batteries in all these activities. Wherever I can, actually! I'm still no expert, but I've read a lot and tried some of the tricks. I've never seen the info this guy is selling, so I wouldn't know if I'm spilling any beans or not!

A lot of the problems do arise from misuse or abuse. Too much heat or excessive charging current causes the cell to vent, drying it out. So, the best advice is to let the battery cool before charging. Keep tools and batteries in shade if possible.

If the battery heats too much on the charger, give it a break or charge at a lower rate (hard to do with only the factory charger unless you modify it). I think that 1/10th rate is safest, but very slow at 10 hours on the charger. Some cells are better able to handle a higher temperature and charge rate. Otherwise, expect shorter useful life, it's just the name of the game.

Simple chargers just run full bore till you unplug them or remove the battery. An AC timer will let you control things. I keep a record of a pack's fully charged voltage. Use this to guesstimate charging times. Overcharging actually lowers this value, so it's fairly easy to find by experimentation. You'll also spot a pack going bad sooner and can take certain steps to combat it.

Overuse and undercharging are both bad. Rushing the charge process to complete a job costs in decreased battery life. If you count on having batteries throughout a long day, it may be wiser to invest in additional packs and chargers.

Instruct the crew to let packs cool awhile and use them in order whenever possible. If not, suggest maybe they'd like to own the batteries themselves, I bet then they'd take care of them!

What happens is a hot, recently-drained pack is thrust in the charger, then put right back to work while still hot. If it wasn't fully charged, one or more individual cells may be at different voltages and capacities. As a single cell within the pack is nearing discharge, but its neighbors are still well-charged, that weak cell will be charged in reverse. If this continues, it will be severely damaged or destroyed.

Now, this pack with one or more damaged cells will begin to read incrementally lower when charged, and you may notice one or more "hot spots" on the case. These hot cells are now shorted, so they only heat up like a resistor. A cheap digital meter will allow you to test individual cells to detect these faults.

I suppose this is how the little shorting crystals are created. Or perhaps they may just form on their own. Google "silver migration disease," which affects some old radios' trimmer and tuning capacitors.

A simple circuit can be built to charge a large capacitor to "zap" dead cells. Most people that try this just use a 12v battery across individual cells. Preferably not the entire pack at once, but I have read this worked for some. I used a 6-amp car battery charger, popping each cell a few times while monitoring the voltage. Then I charged them as individual cells and reassembled a pack with the rejuvenated ones.

Other failures can be traced to a weak connection or a fusible link. A relatively easy homebrew fix.

Be aware too much heat while zapping or soldering can be dangerous. If a cell vents explosively, I don't wanna hear about it! Also, charged capacitors can be lethal. Even a 12v car battery has electrocuted people. Use common sense and do your testing in small doses. :eek:

I didn't have a lot of luck with rejuvenating entire packs, but I did manage to return some of their usefullness. Even if a ruined battery pack couldn't be saved, I did recover a handful of individual cells that I'm using to run an old transistor radio and a flashlight. Out of three packs, only two cells were so badly shorted that I couldn't raise them off zero. But none of the packs are "like new."

There's sources for surplus cells to rebuild your own. About $4 per soldertab C-size or sub-C seems to be the norm, but there are some deals on occasion. I'm going to try subbing high-capacity AA NiMH soldertabs for the C cells in one of my packs. They can be bought very cheaply. Should be a lot lighter, yet run longer!

Model airplane enthusiasts use a lot of LiOn batteries. A warning here is it takes special chargers specifically designed for the battery you are using. A bigger danger seems to be these batteries are not safe if dropped or shorted. They can burst into flames, sometimes many minutes after the impact shock occured. Several people crashed their planes, placed the wreckage in their vehicles only to see it all go up in flames later, while their attention was elsewhere.

Granted the packaging on model plane battery packs is no more than some foil and tape wraps. I recall some laptop computers having similar problems, and more recently, I-pods, cell phones and other handheld devices. LiOn is pretty new to power tools, so I'd treat these batteries with utmost respect at least until some user reports are circulating.

-Ed (promising more brevity in future posts! :p )