Frankenplaner?

[Eric Fuller]

Well, I'm really fed up with my DW735. About the only thing it has going for it is the finish. Everything else is horrible - the noise and most of all the BAD BAD BAD blades. I've spent nearly $1000 on blades in the past three years. Seriously.

I'd like to get a nice stationary planer but since I still rent my shop space, wiring 220 is not in the cards. The only stationary planer that will run 110 that I have found is the Jet JPM-13. I already had one and it was a piece of junk.

So, now I'm thinking that perhaps I can buy a 15" planer and fit it with a 110V 1.5 HP motor. I do production work but very small items and don't need to make big hogging passes - .02 is about as much as I tend to take off in one swipe...seems like 1.5 HP would be plenty for that. Added benefit would be the ability to just swap it back to stock once I buy a shop, which I am planning to do this fall.

I recently put a Shelix cutterhead in my jointer and I'm sold on them. New planer would have to be able to run one as well.

Any thoughts on if this would even be posssible? Assuming the arbor is the same dimeter, seems like all I would need to do is perhaps fab up a mounting plate and maybe rewire the switches.

I like the Powermatic 15's - I run a PM64 and it's been a workhorse.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Eric, I did just that for a friend.

We purchased a used 15 inch planer and I removed the 2 HP motor and installed a 1 HP motor on it for him. The only item I had to purchase was a pulley, I went with one sheave instead of two due to the low HP requirements.

He planes pine, mostly small pieces less than 6 inches wide with no problem. (Not surprising since many 6 inch jointers are 1 HP or less.

Regards, Rod.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Eric, just out of curiosity, how much and what typee of lumber were you putting through the 735?

[Peter Quinn]

I wonder why 220 can't be had as a renter? Is the panel full? 220V is not that hard nor expensive to aquire, though might not be worth the trouble if a move is in your immediate future.

I'm having a hard time believing much less than 13A/220 or 26A/110 is going to push a 15" planer effectively. The cutter head on mine is @ 3 1/2", plus the gear driven serrated steel feeders, I'm guessing that's going to tax a 1 1/2HP motor considerably just turning it on.

[Rod Sheridan]

Peter, if you measure the current on your planer while running pieces of wood 6 inches wide, with shallow cuts, you'll be surprised to find that it would require less than 1 HP.

Regards, Rod.

[Johnny Kleso]

I'd buy a Grizzly and add a 2hp motor..
They even have insert cutter heads

[Eric Fuller]

Eric, just out of curiosity, how much and what typee of lumber were you putting through the 735?

I work with about half exotics and half domestics, all hardwoods though. I don't know what kind of steel they use to make the blades for the 735 but I suspect it's deliberately inferior to get you to buy refills since they are not sharpenable. How much, no idea. I make puzzles though and have to budget a new set of blades for each project (one side for roughing, one side for finish planing to dimension). I've had a set of brand new knives go dull to the point that sharp 90 degree edges on maple were fuzzed and bent instead of crisp by the time I planed 60 3/4" square sticks, taking .015 passes.

[Eric Fuller]

Hi Eric, I did just that for a friend.

We purchased a used 15 inch planer and I removed the 2 HP motor and installed a 1 HP motor on it for him. The only item I had to purchase was a pulley, I went with one sheave instead of two due to the low HP requirements.

He planes pine, mostly small pieces less than 6 inches wide with no problem. (Not surprising since many 6 inch jointers are 1 HP or less.

Regards, Rod.


Thanks for chiming in Rod. What kind of planer did you convert? My local woodworking stores hardly carry anything in inventory, so if I had a specific model number and make it would help a lot since I'll probably be ordering the new one online sight unseen.

Did you have to do any rewiring on the switch?

[Eric Fuller]

I'd buy a Grizzly and add a 2hp motor..
They even have insert cutter heads

Didn't know there were any 2HP 110V motors. Grizzly sell them? I know they sell models with insert cutterheads, but I'm sold on the byrd setup specificly.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for chiming in Rod. What kind of planer did you convert? My local woodworking stores hardly carry anything in inventory, so if I had a specific model number and make it would help a lot since I'll probably be ordering the new one online sight unseen.

Did you have to do any rewiring on the switch?

Hi, it was a King Industrial CT380C It's a 15 inch cast iron planer, looks identical to the Delta/GI etc.

It was 2 HP to start with, now it's 1 HP.

The mag starter had to be replaced because it had a 240V coil in it, and I couldn't find a replacement 120V coil for it. Too bad since the overloads were the correct current rating.

John is using blades with an 18%? Tungsten content in the planer, and is very happy with it.

[Eric Fuller]

Thanks Rod...I'll look around. When you say it looks identical to the Delta, do you mean the current production 4 post 15" Deltas?

I'm hoping the spiral cutterhead will help with the lower power issue as well. The difference in my jointer is amazing after the swap. This is by no means emperical, but it feels like the machines is not working nearly as hard as it did before with straight knives.

EDIT: Nevermind...found it. Looks like a Canadian machine, eh?
http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=111&ID=86

[CPeter James]

You could go as high as 1 1/2 hp with a 120V circuit. I prefer the planers with the motor in the base because it is much easier to service the knives. Any of the 15" planers would be OK. They are all pretty much the same with small differences here and there. I have a 15" Jet. The ones with the motor on the top are also more prone to snipe unless you always use the table locks. The ones with the motor in the base do not have the problem because the motor is rigid and the tables move.

How about this one? Add a new motor or maybe they would credit you and just give you the smaller one. It not, I bet you could sell the larger motor for about what a 1 or 1 1/2 hp would cost. Many people are lookng to upgrade shop equipment.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Extreme-Series-15-Planer-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G1021X2

http://www.grizzly.com/images/pics/jpeg500/g/g1021x2.jpg

CPeter

[Eric Fuller]

Thanks CPeter. I'll probably hang on to the motor because eventually I'll have a shop wired with 220.

I had noticed that most of the 4 post planers seemed pretty much the same aside from badges and perhaps the addition of a DRO or helical cutterhead.

One thing I noticed is that they seem to use steel rollers instead of the hard rubber ones my lunchbox uses. Infeed is agressively machined to grab the wood, and outfeed is either smooth steel or ridged. Don't the steel rollers mark up the wood, leaving a less than desirable final finish? I take passes as thin as .005 on a pretty frequent basis; sometimes I'll take off a thousandth. If the infeed roller grabs deeper than that it will give me problems.

[Matt Meiser]

The outfeed rollers don't seem to leave marks, but the infeed can if you take too light a cut.

[CPeter James]

My experience is that about .010" is the minimum that you can take and not leave marks. Maybe in you case a drum sander would be better. I have one of those and you can really split hairs with it.

CPeter

[Eric Fuller]

Hmm...I've been reading that on amazon reviews.

Why is it so difficult to put a decent planer on the market? Even swapping cutterheads and motors I find a deal breaker :mad:

Guess I could fab up some kind of rubber roller system, but c'mon, it's getting to where I may as well build my own from scratch.

[Jeff Hallam]

Just thought I'd throw this in the mix. I'm not sure who was making your replacement knives for your 735 before. But maybe these would be a better quality:

http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1111

[Eric Fuller]

Just thought I'd throw this in the mix. I'm not sure who was making your replacement knives for your 735 before. But maybe these would be a better quality:

http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1111


Thanks Jeff...I've seen those before but never tried them. So far have been using OEM DeWalt blades which are unforgivably poor quality. Really looking to get away from the DeWalt for many reasons; blades are the biggest, but not the only. May be stuck with it though since it seems like all the 15" planers like to chew up your wood in order to feed it.

[Simon Dupay]

how about an older planer? I know that parks,delta and powermatic 100 ran on 110. and they have soild infeed rollers.

[Ron Dunn]

Let's find an angel, then design and build our own range of woodworking tools.

Just kidding, of course ... but you have to admit that the design discussion in this thread should be gold to a manufacturer interested in being more than a "me-too".

[Eric Fuller]

Let's find an angel, then design and build our own range of woodworking tools.

Just kidding, of course ... but you have to admit that the design discussion in this thread should be gold to a manufacturer interested in being more than a "me-too".


What with everybody rebadging the same couple models now, and they all come from China, seems like they're outsourcing the design work to China as well. It's obvious a woodworker didn't have a hand in designing these things.

Seriously, having to hit the nail on the head to within .01 or you get roller feed marks? That's absurd for a four figure piece of equipment.

Not making a sturdy, cast 13" or 15" model that will run on 110? Stupid. The 735 rules the small shop market right now and is critically flawed. Someone coming in at the right price point with resharpenable blades and a reasonable finish would do well.

Guess I'll be looking into a used machine. I'd be willing to spend a couple grand easy on the right machine but I have to go dig around swap meets. Someone in this industry needs to get off their butt and quit playing follow the leader...

[George Sanders]

I was fed up with benchtop planers and finally got a 12" Parks. I would love to find a 20" Parks. I put a lot of oak through it and I am impressed with the quality of the finish coming from this old workhorse. It weighs nearly 300 pounds. It has a serrated infeed roller and a solid steel outfeed. The key to performance is in getting it adjusted properly. It came with the wrong size pulleys an an anemic 1H.p. motor. I installed the proper size dual pulleys to make it operate at 4000 RPM. I would have liked to put a 3H.P. motor on it but I found a bargain in a new Leeson 2H.P. 110/220 (yes they do make one). I wired it for 110 but when I get 220 in my garage this spring I will change it over to 220. All told I have about $500 wrapped up in it.
I fear the days of manufacturers actually trying to outperform each other has been replaced by copycats simply trying to outsell each other. After having had two benchtop planers give up the ghost I now have one that should outlive me.

[Paul Simmel]

>>> Seriously, having to hit the nail on the head to within .01 or you get roller feed marks? That's absurd for a four figure piece of equipment.

Actually, if you are accustomed to taking off such shallow passes, you can lessen the roller tension to avoid deeper marks. Also, on my older 15” Grizzly, I can easily dial in to within .02 or so by marking the crank handle to an exact reference mark on the body of the planer. That’s for repeatable positioning, even after knife changes. It’s a very simple procedure, and extremely accurate. IOW, there’s no need to shave off .01 or .02 after you get it right the first time.

If you don’t like that method, you can just dial in a final sacrificial piece to an exact thickness. Then finish your run at that thickness. You will learn that about 1/8 – ¼ of a turn on whatever machine you get will be enough to eliminate the marks, depending on how tight you have the infeed roller tensioned.

Also, as you have learned, lunchbox planers are junk. 220v, larger capacity machines are the industry standard, and serrated rollers are too. If you expect someone to start manufacturing 15” planers with rubber rollers and 110v motors, you are going to be waiting a long time… and for good reason.

You are the one who actually needs to get 220v in your shop.

And if all of the above still doesn’t work for you, then by all means keep your lunchbox handy for the occasional .01 - .02 adjustment-shave. But if you do it right from the beginning… learn your machine… make your marks… you won’t have the need.

[Bart Leetch]

I looked at this planer real hard for a long time & continued to use my Grizzly G1017 which continues to work fine then Dad gave my his Belsaw 5 HP Planer Moulder.

Check this out...

http://grizzly.com/products/13-Planer-Moulder/G1037Z

[Eric Fuller]

Thanks for the good comments paul. I could use sacrificial stock and adjust the tension - very good point. I make interlocking puzzles and my stock has to be accurate to the thousandth; in my world .01 is HUGE.

There just seems to be a big gap in the current market. Look at table saws and jointers - plenty of fairly capable machines running 110, but pretty much nothing on the planer end. Rubber rollers may be nitpicking but the one thing the DW735 has going for it is a phenominal finish quality, and the rollers contribute to that end.

Guess I'm just envisioning a "dream machine" that does it all, but I bet if someone came out with a planer with the finish quality of the DW735, the beefiness and rigidity of a stationary 4 post with a belt drive, and resharpenable blades running 110, they would do very well with it.

[Lance Norris]

Actually, if you are accustomed to taking off such shallow passes, you can lessen the roller tension to avoid deeper marks.


Eric... Paul is correct. I didnt like the roller marks when I bought my Grizzly 1021x. I bought a Rotocator(dial indicator for planer adjustments) and backed off the roller tension and havent had a roller mark since.

[Eric Fuller]

Eric... Paul is correct. I didnt like the roller marks when I bought my Grizzly 1021x. I bought a Rotocator(dial indicator for planer adjustments) and backed off the roller tension and havent had a roller mark since.


Outstanding...thanks again. Looks like this may work out for me after all.

[Paul Simmel]

Eric,

I understand your sit'. You may be better off looking for better blades, then.

I sharpen mine on a Makita 9820-2 (8" and 15" blades). Don't know why you couldn't do the same. Your blades are 1/16", and mine are 1/8". I think I spent about $300 or so. Just learning it right now. I have a link to an info thread on sharpening technique. I'm 90% there. Just a few more minutes and I'll have it down to a science. Much better finish than what you can get professionally ground (something you don't about.) I see no reason why you couldn't rehab several sets and have them ready to go. That's what I do. Always have a fresh set reasd to go.

Just might solve your whole issue.

Edit: Might get yours sharper than new.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

I'd like to get a nice stationary planer but since I still rent my shop space, wiring 220 is not in the cards.
As a landlord, I'd have zero objections to adding a 220V source in any of the three (soon to be four) rentals we currently have.
We just had a 220V line run for a tenant's electric range. The cost for a professional licensed electrician to run the line was around $250.00.

Have you asked the landlord if he would object or share the cost of a line or even spring for the whole thing?
Personally, I'd be thrilled to no end if a tenant wanted to drag a lot of heavy tools into the basement (means they would think a long time about having to drag them back out again = long term renter :)).

On topic - sadly, I have to agree with your assessment of a lunchbox planer. I have yet to even unpack the DW734 I bought last summer. With nice weather coming, I'm getting back around to getting into some projects in the garage/shop. One of the first things I want to make calls for a glueup 15" wide - and the 734 is only 13":rolleyes:.
Oh well...

[Eric Fuller]

As a landlord, I'd have zero objections to adding a 220V source in any of the three (soon to be four) rentals we currently have.

Hi Rich,

I understand but my shop is not at the house - I'm a full time ww'er and I rent space in the back of a warehouse close to me. I own my home downtown but it's zoned residential and my neighbors would not appreciate me running tools all the time.

The reason I have not run 220 is that the power in the place is ancient (think glass fuses) and the wire run from the panel to my area would be about 150'. An expensive install. If I were going to stay a couple more years I'd do it, but I'm looking to buy my own building this fall.

After that's out of the way I aspire to be a residential landlord like yourself. Congrats!