Best end vise option for hand-me-down bench

[Matt Stiegler]

This is my first post.

I recently got my father's old bench top. It's a fine thing -- hard maple, 8 feet long and 4 inches thick. So I'm building a base for it (a Tom Caspar torsion box design -- ugly functionality) and setting up a basement workshop around it. Hopefully I'll work up to projects like re-facing cabinets and building furniture and picture frames.

The bench top was constructed with front and back rows of square dogs holes. Great, right? But the dog hole rows are set in about 1.5 inches from the front and back edges. Apparently my father never got around to installing bench vises, so I don't know what his plan was.

What's the best end vise solution to let me use at least the front row of holes? I like the idea of using a face vise on the end. Would it make sense to build out the front right corner of the bench so the vise lines up with the holes? Should I see how I do without an end vise, just a bench dog and a holdfast or a clamp?

I'm aware of two options that I'm not excited about, namely (1) veritas twin screw ($225 too rich for me and some mixed reviews) or (2) install a standard in-line tail vise (not eager to hack into the bench and a little intimidated about installation).

Thoughts?

[glenn bradley]

With the dog holes that close to the front I would say a traditional tail vice was the plan although a twin screw properly spaced could work. Either will require some cutting on the bench and you don't mention that the right front corner is shaped for a tail vice.

As far as a cheap add-on, something that has a dog, dog hole or will accept an added jaw that will accept a dog -AND- that would center the "squeeze" on the row of holes will do. This is easier said than found. A vice that does not center on the row will rack under pressure -OR- if it doesn't rack it is of a type that cost more than enough to just do it right :D.

[Matt Stiegler]

Thanks, Glenn.

I guess my question boils down to this. I'm leaning towards installing a face vise (perhaps a 7" Lee Valley quick release) as my end vise. But with dog holes 1.5 inches from the front of my benchtop, I don't think I can do that unless I build out the front right corner of the bench several inches, so I can center the vise dog over the line of dog holes.

I haven't yet come across anyone doing something similar (which isn't surprising), and I wanted to get input from the forum about whether that seemed like a dumb idea for reasons I haven't thought of, or whether people suggested another route.

[Greg Hines, MD]

The Veritas twin screw vises are known for dealing with those problems, since you can center one of your vise-face dog holes on each row of your existing holes,

Doc

[Chris Friesen]

The spendy twin-screw was what first came to mind. Barring that, a quick release vise with a wooden chop is probably the best bet. It will rack somewhat, but end vises usually aren't generally tightened down really hard (otherwise you risk bowing the stock).

Don't build out the corner of the bench, as it will interfere with clamping long items to the front of the bench.

[Matt Stiegler]

Thanks again for the helpful responses.

Chris suggested a vise with a wooden chop. I'd been thinking of an all-metal vise, primarily because it had the integrated dog, but I guess one can design the wooden chop however you want. When a wooden chop face vise is used as an end vise, do people typically make the whole chop taller than the bench surface? Very good point about clamping long items, I hadn't thought of that.

Do others agree that having the vise screw a couple inches out of line with the dog holes would work out?

[Johnny Kleso]

I have an Enco 7" quick release vise as my tail vise and racking is not a big issue as you can hand plane wood with just a front dog as a stop and no rear dog at all..

You dont need to tighten the vise with a pipe :)
If you do just add a spacer block to the other side..

PS my front bench top section is 18" wide and about a 12" span for the dogs...

Heres a pic with Hf vises
https://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/projects/bench/bench_a.jpg

[Kevin French]

How 'bout Make One

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g179/sweeper54/shop/LegVise.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g179/sweeper54/shop/VISE3.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g179/sweeper54/shop/VISE1.jpg

[Brian Kent]

If you can't raise the bridge, lower the river.

Two different approaches.

1) Forget about the vise and adapt the Veritas Wonder Dog idea to square holes:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=31129&cat=1,41637,41645

2) Put on any face vise you want and drill new holes accordingly.

Brian

[Thom Sturgill]

The dogs don't HAVE to be used with the vise. Use wedges. You put two dogs in front and back and run a piece of scrap beside them, then butt the board you want to work on up to that and use a wedge between the board and a similar setup on the other end. Use two opposing wedges for better control and even pressure.

[Doug Hobkirk]

There are lots of fans of Fine Woodworking's John White's "new fangled workbench." It's very unconventional, but brimming with ideas.

You could attach two 3" or 4" 3/4" black pipes in line with the dog holes using plumbing fittings for the "base" that attaches to the end of the workbench. Then use 2 Jorgenson (or whatever) pipe clamp head units on the end of the pipe. Perfect alignment, great clamping power, and well over 1.5" of travel. You could cover the base hardware with a routed wood cover that has 2 3/4" holes.

[Chris Friesen]

TChris suggested a vise with a wooden chop. I'd been thinking of an all-metal vise, primarily because it had the integrated dog, but I guess one can design the wooden chop however you want.

I was actually thinking of a metal quick-release vise with an added wooden chop to support the stock being gripped between dogs. The integrated dog is usually steel, which is not friendly to plane irons.

See an example here (but in your case the dog hole in the end vise would be offset closer to the front edge of the bench):

http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/The+Holtzapffel+Workbench.aspx

[Charles Cannon]

There are lots of fans of Fine Woodworking's John White's "new fangled workbench." It's very unconventional, but brimming with ideas.

You could attach two 3" or 4" 3/4" black pipes in line with the dog holes using plumbing fittings for the "base" that attaches to the end of the workbench. Then use 2 Jorgenson (or whatever) pipe clamp head units on the end of the pipe. Perfect alignment, great clamping power, and well over 1.5" of travel. You could cover the base hardware with a routed wood cover that has 2 3/4" holes.

I watch the "New Fangled Workbench" video yesterday and cannot understand why you would not just buy a cheap vise for the end of the bench. It would avoid the need for the channel in the middle of the top and the insert pieces that need to be removed to adjust the clamps. That said, I have never owned, built or used a bench.
Cannon

[Matt Stiegler]

Thanks everyone for your input and ideas. I've stumbled on a solution, and realized that its not just the solution I like best but in fact what my father had originally had done with the bench. (It's only because I'm such a noobie that I didn't realize it earlier). Perhaps bench design preferences are genetic.

I found the answer while flipping for the 200th time this week Landis' The Workbench Book. Page 97 & 98 show a bench (Jim Mattson's) which, like mine, has dog holes running down the front and back faces near the edges. His solution was to install a record vise in the middle of the tail. He uses both rows for wide pieces, and a spanner (a board with dogs on each end) for narrower ones. Simple, effective.

In retrospect, it should have been obvious this is what my father had done, because the four mounting holes in the middle of the end have been staring at me the whole time. But I was told I had a section of a much larger bench, so I've sort of assumed that the end of my bench was not the end of his.

Anyhow, thanks again for everyone's great ideas.

[Randal Stevenson]

I have an Enco 7" quick release vise as my tail vise and racking is not a big issue as you can hand plane wood with just a front dog as a stop and no rear dog at all..

You dont need to tighten the vise with a pipe :)
If you do just add a spacer block to the other side..

PS my front bench top section is 18" wide and about a 12" span for the dogs...

Heres a pic with Hf vises
https://home.comcast.net/%7Erexmill/projects/bench/bench_a.jpg

Is that T track in the front of your bench?