Yet another steel for plane irons?

[Matt Z Wilson]

Perusing the Tools for Working Wood site yesterday I came across Ray Iles stanley replacement irons made of D2 tool steel. Has anyone used them? It says that the edge retention is even better than A2. I'm thinking these could be great, esp for jack plane irons...thoughts?

[Larry Williams]

I suspect you're having trouble with your sharpening. The search for magic bullet steels is driven by the number of people who haven't mastered sharpening. I don't believe Joel and others offering these steels have even considered the ramifications of passing off very difficult to sharpen steels as some kind of cure for not learning to sharpen in the first place. I think they're actually driving people away from hand tool woodworking by virtually guaranteeing failure.

My advise is to get your sharpening to where it's quick, easy and second nature. Believe it or not, sharpening is very basic and simple. It usually takes me more time to remove and reinstall a plane iron than to put a good long-lasting edge on it.

[Don C Peterson]

I haven't tried those, but I have a couple of the Ray Iles mortise chisels made from D2. I really like them, the D2 does seem to hold up well, but I might be a bit hesitant to go for a D2 plane iron. The A2 steel is harder to sharpen than O1 and the D2 is harder to sharpen than A2. The mortise chisels have a very small edge compared to a plane iron and they don't have to be quite as sharp as a plane iron.

I think for my money I'd rather have to hone the iron a bit more often than have the sharpening be more work.

[Matt Z Wilson]

No trouble with sharpening here, I'll show you the patches of hairless skin on my arm. :) I was just thinking that I use my jack plane for coarse work (as does everybody, well most I suppose) and having an iron that is pretty tough would be great, mortise chisels are beaten to death hence the utility of D2. While the mortise chisels have a smaller edge, so does a hollow ground iron. I don't know if tougher steels are offered as a cure for not learning how to sharpen or in fact guarantee failure, I'd just rather work wood than sharpen. I suppose time spent sharpening is the same whether you do it few times for longer or many times for a few quick passes on the stone.

[Steve knight]

I think the only practical way to get easy to sharpen but a long lasting edge is go back in the past to laminated irons. solid steels made today are not made for what we use them for so we are stuck with make do.

[Joel Moskowitz]

I suspect you're having trouble with your sharpening. The search for magic bullet steels is driven by the number of people who haven't mastered sharpening. I don't believe Joel and others offering these steels have even considered the ramifications of passing off very difficult to sharpen steels as some kind of cure for not learning to sharpen in the first place. I think they're actually driving people away from hand tool woodworking by virtually guaranteeing failure.

My advise is to get your sharpening to where it's quick, easy and second nature. Believe it or not, sharpening is very basic and simple. It usually takes me more time to remove and reinstall a plane iron than to put a good long-lasting edge on it.

With the right sharpening media (fairly friable waterstones or diamonds) D2 isn't particular hard to sharpen and it works great. Takes about the same amount of time to sharpen as carbon steel also. Nut if you insist on using arkansas stones for everything - what can I say - you guarantee yourself failure on D2 and miss out of really long lasting edges.

[Eddie Darby]

Interesting if it is true that you can use regular waterstones to sharpen D2.

"D2 as an alloy is tougher than A2, and slightly more difficult to sharpen. However, we typically hollow grind everything and use Norton water stones for final sharpening with no real worries. We have found that D2 seems to not sharpen well on Shapton ceramic stones, but on regular Norton, Naniwa, Ice Bear, and King stones they hone up fine."

From this page:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-RID2IRON.XX&Category_Code=

This would help if one converts to D2 from High Carbon, since one wouldn't need to buy expensive Shapton stones or diamond. I wonder what brand of Shapton they are talking about? Glass Stone, Professional?

"We also think we got a "sweeter" edge but that could be our imagination."

The one big complaint about A2 is less sweet edge. Is this one of those win win win situations?
Sharp edge, long lasting, and same stones.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Interesting if it is true that you can use regular waterstones to sharpen D2.

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]D2 as an alloy is tougher than A2, and slightly more difficult to sharpen. However, we typically hollow grind everything and use Norton water stones for final sharpening with no real worries. We have found that D2 seems to not sharpen well on Shapton ceramic stones, but on regular Norton, Naniwa, Ice Bear, and King stones they hone up fine."

From this page:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-RID2IRON.XX&Category_Code=

I wonder what brand of Shapton they are talking about? Glass Stone, Professional?


The Shapton pros. there was a marked difference in speed between norton (fast) and shapton (slow) on the d2. We did test on the glass-stones, and I rmember thinking that there wasn't much of an improvement but the testing there was far less rigorous.

[Danny Thompson]

Joel,

Let me just say it is great to have a direct response from you in a public forum like this. This goes for you, Rob Lee, and others. Thanks for cutting through the speculation and clearing up any confusion. I think it really adds value to the Creeker community.

[David DeCristoforo]

FWIW. I have made many plane blades out of D2 steel. Sharpened on water stones to a polished razor edge in very little time. Good edge holding.

YM

Disclaimer: Not a metallurgist!!!

[Johnny Kleso]

D-2 is extreamly hard to grind even on the surface grinder in a machine shop..

Honing should not be a huge job if you power grind your primary angle (25º) and hone the secondary (30º)

IMHO I think D-2 is not the right steel for cutting blades.. I would like someone to try what Crucial Steel told me is the best steel for WW CMP V10 (http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/ds10Vv7b.pdf?CFID=1824209&CFTOKEN=40169919)

[Chris Friesen]

IMHO I think D-2 is not the right steel for cutting blades.. I would like someone to try what Crucial Steel told me is the best steel for WW CMP V10 (http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/ds10Vv7b.pdf?CFID=1824209&CFTOKEN=40169919)

Might be interesting to try CPM 3V, which seems to have a good rep with knife makers.

[Wiley Horne]

Question for Yoshikuni in re D2 blades. Are you using manmade water stones, or natural stones, to get the good results?

Wiley

[David DeCristoforo]

"...Are you using manmade water stones, or natural stones, to get the good results?"

I have both but I only use the "manmade" stones on my "non Japanese" blades. The natural stones I have are very expensive and I only use them for my "best" blades. The one exception is a natural "blue stone" which is used just before the polishing stone. That stone "cuts" the D2 steel just fine.

YM

[Joel Moskowitz]

Question for Yoshikuni in re D2 blades. Are you using manmade water stones, or natural stones, to get the good results?

Wiley

ANY fairly friable waterstone should do a decent job on D2, natural or articical it doesn't matter. I hollow grind everything to save wear and tear on the stones - D2 or carbon steel it saves stone maintanence.

[rick fulton]

Matt,

I've found the D2 to be too thick (0.115") to fit my 605, just can't get the blade tip to exit the body without it completely closing the mouth.

If I move the frog forward, the front of the blade hits the mouth before exiting. If I move the frog back, the blade hits the back of the mouth.

If the blade were honed at a shallower angle, I might get more blade to protrude through the mouth before the blade hits the frame. But that seems like it would negate the thickness advantage.

Then there is also a problem with the “Y” adjuster not reaching through the blade to the iron cap for much of the adjustment range.

So I relegated my D2 to my horned wooden jackplane where it has made a significant difference in that planes ability to take deeper shavings in hard wood.

Rick