Run G0513X2 on 120V?

[Paul Muhlstadt]

Does anyone run their Grizzly G0513X2 on 120V power? My shop only has 120V with 25A breakers. Wondering if startup pops the breaker like the Rikon 10-325. Sort of ready to bite the bullet on the 513X2 but would rather not have to spend the money to rewire shop to 240V on top of the cost of the saw
Shopping for a new band saw hasn't been going well lately. First one I ordered was discontinued and out of stock (G0570), second choice (Rikon 10-325) also out of stock until end of April.

[Greg Cole]

Paul,
I have that same BS. You won't be disappointed with it if you chose to go that route. I have had the G0513 and now the X2 version.
In regards to the electrical, it should be "that expensive" to add a 220 circuit (or circuits) be it a DIY or having an electrician do it. If you have the breaker space available in your panel it's pretty easy to plug in a breaker to get your 220 from and about any of us who can use WW'ing machinery can pull wire..... just my $0.02. If you're going to to that, might as well take another "step" and do it 100%. In the long run, you'll all the more well set up in the shop.
I added a sub panel to my shop with 4 breakers for 20A, 220V and some 110 V, 20A circuits (4 or 5 IIRC). Sum total was all of maybe $150... and most of that was for the copper wire. I have converted the TS to run on 220 as well as my DC & jointer, basically anything more than 1 hp is now 220 for me.
Just my $0.02

Greg

[Pat Germain]

Paul, will your breaker panel support adding a 220V outlet? Is the panel anywhere near your shop? If so, I'd highly recommend installing a 220V outlet. It's pretty darn easy to do. I know because I did it in my garage last year. I just bought a two-pole breaker and wired it up. It will be much better for the saw and come in mighty handy for things way beyond your band saw.

[alex grams]

I concur with Pat and Greg. If you can run 220, do it. I added a sub panel in my garage and grand cost was around 250$ (nearly $170 was for a 60' run of 6/3 wire). And the difficult part was routing the wire from the exterior main box up into the awning and adding conduit for it to run in.

That being said, according to the grizzly manual, you can run 110, but will need 10/2 wire with a ground, and a 30amp breaker. I wouldn't run it on your 25amp circuit. And don't assume you can replace the 25amp breaker with a 30 and run it that way either. The only way you could safely replace the breaker and run through the existing wiring would be if you knew the wire gauge. But then you would need to check all outlets on the circuit and make sure they have 30amp ratings also. And either way, new wiring or checking and running old wiring, you would be best advised to run it on a dedicated circuit.

Also, Greg and I both have the 513x2 and got them about the same time. I love mine and it has worked great for me and is excellent quality IMO. I think Greg concurs that it is a great machine for the price.

[Paul Muhlstadt]

Thanks for the replys!! Understand about pulling 240 but panel is on other side of the house. 2 story house. Not real easy to get to from the shop. Wish I would have done it when I built the house but wasn't a woodworker then. May still have to but was really wondering if anyone is running theirs on 120 now and if they are having problem.

[Greg Cole]

Paul,
If it's any consolation, I pulled about 60 feet from my main panel to where the sub is in the garage with 2/3's of the basement being a finished basement. Had to do a little creative routing (and drilling some of the floor joists is a PITA 1st class in some of those creative spots but I managed to leave the sheet rock ceiling intact) but I got it done (done right too as it was verified by a licensed electrician).
For grins, have an electrician bid on it. You might not flinch at the $, or like me it prompted the DIY. Your shop needs will most likely grow over time & will be well worth it if you do it.
Yup, Alex is right... I really like my saw. When I sold the G0513 version, I was very tempted to go with an MM16... but the big bear has done well by me and I tend to be rather brand loyal. And the only thing I'd say "would be nice" is a foot brake, but those aren't available from Griz til you get into saws too big for my shop.
I'll shuddap now, or at least try to.

Greg

[Dave MacArthur]

I'll disagree with the the prevailing opinion above somewhat--they probably gave you the BEST advice, but since you are asking about running the saw on 110v, I don't think it's necessary you go to 220.

You should be fine running that saw on a 25 A circuit. Here are the specs:
Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V, single-phase, TEFC capacitor start induction, 60 Hz, pre-wired to 220V
Amps: 20/10The saw was built to run on a 110 option, and you rarely see 25 A circuits--usual is 20 A. There is no danger to the saw or wiring in running it--your only issue would be popping the CB if it draws more amps, probably on start up. It should not draw more during use. If a CB pops on start up, you can just buy a slow-throw CB to overcome it.

Also, there is nothing about 110 vs. 220 that is "better" for the saw, as I understand it--if the motor is wired to run on either, it is just a matter of which coils go to which phase, and I believe the motor coils see the same current either way. A recent post on SMC by a motor guru on this topic--amperage through the various motor coils @ 110 setup vs. 220, is good reading... not sure what to tell you to search on, it was on this forum sometime after Jan 15th.

Yes Griz says 30 A and 10/2, but that is complete corporate CYA overkill--of course they will give the "100% solution, no one ever can possibly complain" in the manual. Not required; unless they have under-rated the true power of their motor (...unlikely...) or have access to some NEC that no one else uses, I'd assign this as a marketing/customer complaint/quick technical service fix answer.

Now that being said, I myself did convert all my 110 devices over to 220, and I did run a sub-panel to my shop, and I did run 5 20A 220v circuits and 5 20A 110v. It was fairly easy, less than $250 all told in conduit. However, I did not convert the machines because it was better for them, or fear of CB popping when running them at their advertised amperage. I did it because in my "worst case" scenario of what MIGHT I ever be running at once (dust collector, tablesaw, lights, and compressor kicks on), I didn't want to exceed my total subpanel feeder CB; and IMO it gives me more options to run several machines on one circuit due to lower current draw, if I ever decide to move stuff around.

If adding a circuit is a problem, then just GO FOR IT, buy the saw and see what happens. Then try the slow-trip CB. Worst case, run a new circuit... it's just not that hard. The Brinks Security people showed up at my house last month and wired 15 circuits all through my walls starting with NOTHING, all up to my extreme scrutiny... in 1 day. You can do it! ;)

For more on this, you might search the forums for:
slow-trip
110 vs. 220
120 vs. 240
Rick Christopherson --he's written several posts concerning rewiring equipment from 110 to 220, which are worth reading.

By the way, great choice of bandsaw too, much better than your first two choices!

[Dave MacArthur]

Here's another thought for you:
Are you SURE you have 25A circuits? What are you basing that on, the CB size alone? I ask because in the US, as far as I know amperage ratings for NM wire for residential use (not specialized engineered solution) are:
Copper AWG NM & UF 30°C (86°F)
14 Guage 15 amps
12 Guage 20 amps
10 Guage 30 amps

Some info from house inspection source on above:
http://www.greatinspector.com/faq-elec-wiresize.html

Now these can be exceeded in engineered applications as found commercially, and these are already "derated" numbers, but they are what I believe most electricians run and inspectors look for. Unless you're running 11 Gauge wire, which I've never seen, I would think you should either have 12Ga NM-B wiring protected by 20A breakers, or 10Ga wiring protected by 30 A breakers. If you do have 12 Ga wiring, then you should probably NOT have 25 A breakers. I could be wrong here, but I would not expect it. If I saw 25 A breakers, I would instead expect that you REALLY have 10 gauge wiring that is being conservatively protected by a 25 A breaker.

If that is the case, then it is possible you could use a 30 A breaker already. However, you would have to trace the entire circuit, be sure ALL the wiring was 10, and ensure you had appropriate receptacles for every single one on the circuit--I believe 30A circuits require 30A plugs, you can't downsize the plug.

It should be pretty easy to check--take off the receptacle covers and look at the wiring itself, usually stamped on the insulation. The hard part is exhaustively tracing all the circuits in your house, and ensuring that you know everything on that one circuit of interest for sure. This is time well spent however, and every homeowner should do it once. Here's a tutorial on that:
http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35720223

I'm sure I've slightly mis-spoken or generalized the NEC where an exception may exist, etc., but I believe my thrust is valid--check out that circuit, 25A sounds fishy.
Good luck!

[Rick Christopherson]

As Dave pointed out, the 513 can be run from a 120 volt outlet if you need it to. Frankly, in your situation, you don't have anything to lose, do you?

Either it will run fine, or it will trip your breaker. A motor will only draw what it needs, so unless you draw the full 2 hp from the motor, it will run fine as-is at 120 volts. A fully loaded 2 hp motor will draw 20 amps at 120 volts.

Sometimes people misunderstand what my position is on motor rewiring. I do not oppose one voltage over another, but I do oppose rewiring a motor for no reason. In your case, you have a reason. A 2 hp motor running at full load is the limit of a 20 amp, 120 volt circuit, but if that is what you have, then that is what you have.

By the way, I am pretty sure I have the 513 myself (I don't always pay attention to model numbers), and I have not come close to fully loading the motor. Unless you are going to resaw with it, then you will not have any problem.

Oh, if the startup is tripping the breaker, then simply replace the breaker with a motor-rated breaker. The wiring is not a hazard for these short-term over-current conditions on startup. A motor-rated breaker will permit the short in-rush current to exist for a short time, and is perfectly acceptable.

[Paul Muhlstadt]

Thanks everyone for the help. I have an electrician comming to look at putting a sub panel in. Thats what I really want to do.
Just to explain, I know the breaker is 25A, wire is 12/2 w/ground. I pulled it myself when I built the house. Code at the time I built the house, about 40 yrs ago, was max 25A on # 12 wire. Electrician wanted me to pull 14 but I wasn't comfortable and pulled the 12. He cussed when he had to terminate. There are 4 circuits in my shop all pulled straight from the main to the shop. I might be able to hook the heavier wire to one of the runs and pull to a sub panel. We will see how it goes. I still have to pry my check book open to order the saw but I'm getting closer.
Thanks again.

[Dave MacArthur]

Paul,
If you have 4 circuits directly pulled from the main to the shop, why can't you just select one of them and replace the circuit breaker with a 220 CB, and the receptacles with 220s? Just use the neutral as a hot wire, wrap the ends at junctions with black tape, good to go? Just another idea if sub-panel is $$ or slow in coming? Also thx for the 25A explanation, I wondered...