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Adam Cavaliere
03-26-2008, 9:30 AM
OK - I realize this isn't the first time someone has asked this, but I feel I have done a lot of research before posting here... so here goes! :D

I posted not too long ago about wanting to use a shop vac for my DC needs. This was well before I realized what I was getting myself into - that was when the only big tool in my shop was my table saw and I figured I could just deal with it.

Here are the details of my shop:
10" Table Saw
6" Jointer
13" planer
Portable Router Table
Many other handheld tools
All in half of a two car garage. The other half is for my wife's car!

Right now I have a 15' 3" flexible hose running from a 2 1/2" reducer to my table saw. I also have 3" splitter in two places for my miter saw and my jointer. I haven't even decided what to do for the planer yet.

I feel like it has been a waste of money though because I am now reading that it seems like I won't ever really hit the CFM needed for these tools.
I wanted a solution where the duct work would be stationary and I wouldn't have to move the dust collector around. Right now I have a dedicated spot under my workbench where all the tubing is running.

I think that a cyclone is out of my price range / space available. I am on the fence about other dust collectors - considering the Steel City 1 1/2 HP DC though. I also have been looking at Air Filtration too as I do worry about my lungs. I really don't know where I would even store something like the Steel City all of the walls in my garage have something on them which would prevent me from having it stationary and running ductwork.

What do you guys recommend for someone with a small limited amount of space? I am sure there are other small shops in my same situation - give me some advice! :)

Steven Wilson
03-26-2008, 9:54 AM
Get a Jet DC650C (canister model) and 6' of flex hose. Move your DC from machine to machine. Use a shop vac to collect from your handheld power tools. Of course if you can buy a larger DC (like a 1100C) then do, but the small ones will work pretty well collecting from one tool (or one hood) at a time as long as you use a short piece of flex. You'll still need to wear a respirator or have very good ventilation (large exhaust fan, garage door's wide open) when using the smaller DC's as they don't have enough CFM to really collect the fine dust.

Rod Sheridan
03-26-2008, 10:32 AM
Hi Adam, I esentially have the same size shop you do, although mine is in the basement of a townhouse.

Go with a cyclone, I purchased an Oneida after having a bag type collector for about 6 years years.

The difference is enormous, the cyclone gets the fine dust that is most damaging to your health, the house stays clean and machinery such as my jointer/planer and shaper work properly because the chips are removed from the cutters.

The cyclone has enough capacity to run the dust port on my table saw, and the overam guard port at the same time. It's amazing to see the dust coming off the top of the blade go up the hose and away. I used to breathe and wear that dust before I installed the cyclone and overarm guard.

The money I spent on a bag collector and too small piping was esentially wasted when I upgraded to a cyclone.

Go to the Oneida website and look at the sizes of the cyclones, the 2 HP model doesn't have a large footprint and you won't regret it.

Do a piping layout, with a garage shop you may need a very simple straight run of duct with a few blast gates and a couple of pieces of 4 or 5 inch hose.

Regards, Rod.

Don Bullock
03-26-2008, 10:52 AM
Get a Jet DC650C (canister model) and 6' of flex hose. Move your DC from machine to machine. Use a shop vac to collect from your handheld power tools. Of course if you can buy a larger DC (like a 1100C) then do, but the small ones will work pretty well collecting from one tool (or one hood) at a time as long as you use a short piece of flex. You'll still need to wear a respirator or have very good ventilation (large exhaust fan, garage door's wide open) when using the smaller DC's as they don't have enough CFM to really collect the fine dust.

I have done exactly what Steven is suggesting. My shop share a two car garage with a car and have a 14" band saw and an assembly table in addition to what you have plus my jointer is an 8". There's not much space. After I bought a planer it quickly became apparent that my ShopVac wasn't going to work with it. The small Jet DC is very easy to use and rolls easily when needed.

Steven Wilson
03-26-2008, 11:22 AM
Rod, the original poster Adam mentioned "I think that a cyclone is out of my price range / space available" which negates installing a decent sized cyclone in his shop (for now). I installed a cyclone in my garagemahall but then again I don't even try to park cars in the garage (3car), so I have space. If that isn't an option then the mobile solution with the least footprint are the small dust collectors. They don't have enough CFM to get the fines and won't support ductwork but they are portable and will collect the chips that the planer and jointer produce in quantity. With the addition of a 1-2 micron canister they are much better than the 30micron dust pump that I started with. Besides, they're much better than any shop-vac at collecting chips produced by a jointer or planer.

If Adam moves up to 12" jointer, 15"-20" planer, european combo machine, shaper, or wants to actually collect dust from the tablesaw using two ports (overarm guard/cabinet) then a larger single stage collector (Jet 1200C for example) or a cyclone will be necessary, but for now with Adam's small machines he should be reasonably served by a small DC, as long as he wears a respirator or has significant ventilation.

Dave MacArthur
03-26-2008, 1:01 PM
There are several great posts/threads here at SMC, Stu Abbet or Abblet I think?, on folks who have built cyclones using Bill Pentz design, that ClearVue uses. They indicated it was fairly easy and great results. If cost is an issue, you should read their threads, try searching on homemade cyclone or similar--there are about 6-9 threads out there on this. My reason for not doing it has been confusion about where to get the blower unit... many folks report using one from a HF canister model, but I'm not sure I follow how the CFM which were insufficient before cyclone use become fine after more static losses are added... in any case, I think folks have been satisfied and got good value with a bit of work.

Adam Cavaliere
03-26-2008, 1:18 PM
Honestly I don't want the hastle of putting one together. I really want something that works, don't get me wrong. I just don't want to go to the time of putting something together like that. Maybe in the long run I may be interested in doing something like that, or just buying it outright - for now they seem too big for my needs.

Adam Cavaliere
03-26-2008, 1:19 PM
Do you do air filtration too? I know you say you are using the Jet, but what about the fine particles that hang in the air that the regular DC doesn't pick up?

Bob Aquino
03-26-2008, 2:21 PM
One of the things that I discovered is that you spend more money and time when you have to upgrade systems than what you would if you bought the higher end product first.

I started out with a penn state 1 hp collector and had it piped to the various machines in the garage through 4" pipe. It was an adequate system but left me wanting to upgrade. I then went to a PS dc250 with bags and 6" pipe going down to 4" for the machines that needed it and 6" to two machines that would take advantage of the flow. It cost me a bit to sell the old machine and buy the new pipe and fittings, reusing what I could. I then converted the bags to a cannister after the window on the bottom bag blew out and PS would not do anything about it. My final upgrade so far was to wire in a long ranger remote switch with microswitches on each of the blast gates. That particular improvement makes it much more probable that I will fire up the system for the few seconds it takes to use a machine.

My lessons learned from all this are:

The more convenient a system is to use and maintain, the more you will use it. Moving a hose from machine to machine is not convenient and will limit its use. Bags Suck. Even plastic ones you throw away.

I spent more money on going from a smaller collector to a larger collector to a cannister collector than I would have if I just bought the thing outright (still havent gone up to a cyclone, though I have thought about it).

You shop will evolve and so will your dust collection requirements. Design a system that will accomodate those changes with a minimum amount of headaches and extra costs.

Try and look for a used machine. At least you would be getting into it cheaper than new.

Steven Wilson
03-26-2008, 3:29 PM
Do you do air filtration too? I know you say you are using the Jet, but what about the fine particles that hang in the air that the regular DC doesn't pick up?

The air filtration units are "breathing" the same air as your lungs. They do work in the long run to help reduce ambient dust but they do nothing to protect your lungs - wear a respirator.

1) collect dust at source whenever possible (shop vac, DC, whatever)
2) use a DC that can deliver 800-1000 CFM at your tool hood. This means modifying your tool hoods or purchasing machines that are designed for proper dust collection (i.e. a 3hp cyclone and 6" pipe)
3) ventilate
4) wear a respirator unless you are very sure that your DC is collecting everything it should
5) air filters clean the air after the fact, they do nothing to protect you
6) wear a respirator
7) buy or rent a machine to measure air quality (like the Dylos meter) if you want to be less subjective about air quality.
8) wear a respirator

We all have money, space, comfort issues so there are many possible solutions to a given situation. You suggested that space was an issue and that you have no interest in a cyclone at this time. Fair enough, a small portable DC (with a canister like the Jet DC650C) will collect the chips and some of the dust. Combine that with decent ventilation and a respirator and you should be all set. This is assuming that your shop space is a garage or an outbuilding. If you're in a basement you really need to step it up and have a very decent dust collection system as your activities would pump very fine dust into your house - not healthy in the long run. I suggest you spend some time reading Bill Pentz's site.

Rick Hubbard
03-26-2008, 3:34 PM
Do you do air filtration too? I know you say you are using the Jet, but what about the fine particles that hang in the air that the regular DC doesn't pick up?

Here are a couple of pics of my solution to the “airborne dust” problem. I built my own air filter setup and hung it near the DC. This is the quadrant of the shop where my sanders and TS live, too.
This thing REALLY does the trick. Its “guts” is an old surplus Fume Hood evacuator from a chemistry lab. The squirrel cage setup is about a 10 inch and it is powered by a half-horse motor. It runs whenever the shop lights are on, which means it is always working. I used double Filtrete MERV 11 Furnace filters. If you look closely, you can see that the filters have a red-ish tint to them. That is the result of picking up a over-spray from a tiny bit of aerosol paint that I sprayed on the opposite side of the shop. Between this and my DC, I have very little dust to deal with

glenn bradley
03-26-2008, 3:46 PM
Do you do air filtration too? I know you say you are using the Jet, but what about the fine particles that hang in the air that the regular DC doesn't pick up?

I run a shop made ambient cleaner. Sometimes with the DC sometimes alone. Depends what I'm doing. In general if I am making a lot of fine dust (routing MDF is a good example) that would inspire me to use the ambient, I am in a mask as well.

Shop made cleaner is in the upper corner of this shot. Made with scrap ply and a $40 gable fan from the BORG. Moves about 1300 CFM, 3 filters, really scrubs the air quick.