This thread for Holtey plane owners only...

[Michael Gibbons]

If you own one or more please reply.

[Michael Gibbons]

5 days and 269 views later, and no one replied that they have one. I'm probably wrong for sure to everyone else, but it's as I figured, they are too expensive for the average woodworker.

[Matt Bickford]

"too expensive for the average woodworker": very profound. You really went out on a limb.

What reason have you given them to come out of the woodwork? You haven't asked a question and you're leading them into the spotlight. Wouldn't it be crazy if actual owners of these boutique planes don't flaunt them at every moment and don't want to be on this spotlight? That would probably really make your head spin.

[Peter Quadarella]

I would be very surprised if an actual owner posted here, given the attacks they are likely to receive. But what does it matter if no one has them anyway? Clearly Mr. Holtey is selling enough to stay in business, so what are we looking for here? Is there some presumption that wealthy people don't participate in online forums?

[Jim Koepke]

I would be very surprised if an actual owner posted here, given the attacks they are likely to receive. But what does it matter if no one has them anyway? Clearly Mr. Holtey is selling enough to stay in business, so what are we looking for here? Is there some presumption that wealthy people don't participate in online forums?

But surely if I owned one, after some of the comments in the other thread, I would not make it known.

I did take some prints of images to work to show a co-worker who's brother has a machine shop to ask about the difficulty of making such an item. He said it is something they could do, but not cheaply.

He and I are both retiring soon. He may do some work with his brother. I may send some work to his brother's shop.

I may never own a Holtey plane. But I do intend on making some of my own planes. Not sure if any will ever be made to sell or not.

I was looking at the Bridge City Tool Works HP-7 shoulder plane. The factory blemished version was as low as $350 a few days ago. I was trying to figure what I could do to convince my wife that it was a good thing to get. It is designed by John Economaki. There was one available for trial use at the woodworking show in Oakland. It is a pleasurable plane to push on a piece of wood. It also feels good in the hands.

jim

[Michael Gibbons]

"too expensive for the average woodworker": very profound. You really went out on a limb.

What reason have you given them to come out of the woodwork? You haven't asked a question and you're leading them into the spotlight. Wouldn't it be crazy if actual owners of these boutique planes don't flaunt them at every moment and don't want to be on this spotlight? That would probably really make your head spin. This was a corresponding thread to the other Holtey plane thread. And as I said, I'm probably wrong...usually am.

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

I owned up to having one (OK....it's actually two) in the other thread - but that doesn't really count, as its' not a personal plane...

Have to agree that that I wouldn't expect people to post what they have in this thread, just because of the context or the discussion...

Kinda like saying "who has a Porsche?", "who wears a Rolex?", "who drinks $200 bottles of scotch?"...

There's no accounting for how people make choices, or how they impart value to things, or activities. We all make choices for different reasons - and I know I don't look for external validations of mine...

The fact that Karl has been making and selling planes successfully for ages really answers the question!

Cheers -

Rob

[Phil Thien]

Kinda like saying ... "who drinks $200 bottles of scotch?"...

Rob

But, my consumption of $400/bottle Pappy Van Winkle bourbon makes not having the Porsche or the Rolex much more tolerable! :p

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I guess I shouldn't post here either.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Hi -
The fact that Karl has been making and selling planes successfully for ages really answers the question!


Not knowing the man and not having any access to his financial information and having never seen one of his planes - not even in a photograph anywhere other than his website - I'd not hazard a guess at how many he sells or doesn't sell.


Maybe it'd be a fun experiment to put up a website and place on it articles for sale at astronomical prices just to see if any one snaps 'em up.

It's been my experience that wealthy people tend not to be on line surfing or shopping. They have employees who do that for them.

[Gerard Langlois]

I spend entirely too much on hand tools that recieve much less use than intended by the maker, but I enjoy having them none the less.


The post above that really caught my eye however was the one that mentioned the Pappy Van Winkle bourbon. I have had the regular Van Winkle and found it ot be exceptional, I was looking at the Pappy in the store last weekend is it that much better? I wanted a bottle, but I was with SWMBO, and the NO was final.

[Peter Quadarella]

It's been my experience that wealthy people tend not to be on line surfing or shopping. They have employees who do that for them.
Are you serious or is that tongue in cheek? Because that's not my experience.

[Phil Thien]

The post above that really caught my eye however was the one that mentioned the Pappy Van Winkle bourbon. I have had the regular Van Winkle and found it ot be exceptional, I was looking at the Pappy in the store last weekend is it that much better? I wanted a bottle, but I was with SWMBO, and the NO was final.

I was just sorta kidding. My father had the good fortune to count one of the Van Winkle's as a friend (he referred to him as "the colonel"). So plenty of very expensive bourbon made it to our house (more than we could drink--we're not puritans but common, that was a lot of bourbon). But it has been years since I've had any.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Are you serious or is that tongue in cheek? Because that's not my experience.

Well there is the little problem of the word "wealthy" being a pretty subjective term.

There are people who think I'm wealthy beyond their imaginings and then there are people whom I think are wealthy beyond my imaginings and then there are probably people who ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The folks I'd call wealthy are the ones with the employees doing all their shopping handling their insurance, designing their homes for them, piloting their jets and yachts~ ~ ~ that sort of thing.

[ken seale]

That has been my experience too :cool:

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I for one would very much like for a Hotley owner to post with some comparison between the Hotley and other nicer planes.

It'd be interesting to read the impression one has after paying $4 - 5 Gees for a plane.

How smooth, precise, and manageable can a plane be? What were your expectations of the thing pre-purchase and does it measure up? Were ya glad ya did it? Is it sitting in a presentation shelf somewhere?

[Corvin Alstot]

I for one would very much like for a Hotley owner to post with some comparison between the Hotley and other nicer planes. It'd be interesting to read the impression one has after paying $4 - 5 Gees for a plane. How smooth, precise, and manageable can a plane be? What were your expectations of the thing pre-purchase and does it measure up? Were ya glad ya did it? Is it sitting in a presentation shelf somewhere?
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/upload/contents/335/AUG06PWINFILL%20PLANES.pdf
Take a look, the author seems to appreciate handmade planes!

[Steve Pirrelli]

If I was wealthy I'd definitely splurge on Holtey planes. Not because I need them, but because I
want them. It's a matter of taste and interests. I would have no interest in paying a million for an
abstract painting.:)

[David DeCristoforo]

May I say (hopefully without offense) that this is a somewhat pointless discussion? I am wondering why anyone, "wealthy" or not should have to justify owning, or wanting to own, something so fine as one of Mr Holtey's planes. I am not "wealthy" and most likely never will be. But I own one plane made by a Japanese artisan maker that is worth considerably more than the price of a Holtey plane. I would give it up to save the life of my spouse or one of my children but not for much else. I even use it once in a while. And no, it does not really "work" any better than the planes I use daily (if it did, I would use it daily). But it is a joy to use simply because of it's feel and beauty. Life is too short not be enjoyed as much as possible. A fine tool, a fine automobile, a fine watch, a painting or a bottle of fine Scotch... where is the difference? If it brings you joy and enriches your life in some way, who is to say one way or the other if it's "worth it"? I think it is unwise to confuse this aspect of human nature with the rampant "conspicuous consumption" that has gripped us for so long now and that really has nothing to do with respecting or enjoying a fine object but rather with owning something simply because it is expensive and, therefore bestows "status" on the owner.

YM

[David Tiell]

May I say (hopefully without offense) that this is a somewhat pointless discussion? I am wondering why anyone, "wealthy" or not should have to justify owning, or wanting to own, something so fine as one of Mr Holtey's planes. I am not "wealthy" and most likely never will be. But I own one plane made by a Japanese artisan maker that is worth considerably more than the price of a Holtey plane. I would give it up to save the life of my spouse or one of my children but not for much else. I even use it once in a while. And no, it does not really "work" any better than the planes I use daily (if it did, I would use it daily). But it is a joy to use simply because of it's feel and beauty. Life is too short not be enjoyed as much as possible. A fine tool, a fine automobile, a fine watch, a painting or a bottle of fine Scotch... where is the difference? If it brings you joy and enriches your life in some way, who is to say one way or the other if it's "worth it"? I think it is unwise to confuse this aspect of human nature with the rampant "conspicuous consumption" that has gripped us for so long now and that really has nothing to do with respecting or enjoying a fine object but rather with owning something simply because it is expensive and, therefore bestows "status" on the owner.

YM
WELL SAID!!!!

[Steve Clardy]

Just peeking in to see whats up in here. :)

[Johnny Kleso]

My Sister taught school in a very rich town in NJ and she said no one their thought they where rich they always pointed to someone else that had more money...

I mean kids being driven to school by there fathers drivers... Girls cying because dad will not let them take the Rolls to the Prom, they had to go in a plain Limo

[John Gornall]

Many times I have seen something that appeals to me such as one of these high end planes and I have an urge to buy one. I know that if I had the chance to play with one for a few minutes my urge would pass and I would be satisfied. If I lived near some of the big woodworking shows I would consider buying a selection of these planes, taking a stack of suitable wood, and setting up at the shows. How many of you would pay 10 bucks to try a Holtey plane for 5 minutes. Think of it this way - I just saved you 5000 dollars.

[David DeCristoforo]

Well let's see... Average show runs 3 days... eight hours per day. Figure your Holty is in actual use half the time. That's 12 hours per show. At ten bucks per five minutes, you're making $1,440 per. So you gotta hit at least four shows to get back the price of the plane. But then you have to factor in the fees for the booths and the cost of your display fixtures and workbench plus a sharpening station (your gonna be doing a lot of sharpening). Then you have to add the cost of getting all that stuff to the shows plus the cost of getting yourself to the shows, meals, lodging, etc. And on top of all that, you gotta make some profit. And don't forget the medical expenses you will incur when all those spouses start whacking you in the head because their "significant others" actually decided they wanted a Holty after trying yours. I dunno... Maybe you should just use the plane yourself.... Or at least make a deal with Holty to get a commission....

Yoshicanny DeSatoforo

[Jim Koepke]

I am not as optimistic as Yoshikuni. I would love to push one on a lot of different pieces of wood. But $10 is a lot of money for a very small pleasure.

Besides, spending $10 to push on a $5,000 plane would only save $4,990.

jim

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

May I say (hopefully without offense) that this is a somewhat pointless discussion? I am wondering why anyone, "wealthy" or not should have to justify owning, or wanting to own, something so fine as one of Mr Holtey's planes.

I don't believe there was any request for justifications. I took it to be an open inquiry with no qualifiers. Prolly the questions would come as the owners cropped up?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/upload/contents/335/AUG06PWINFILL%20PLANES.pdf
Take a look, the author seems to appreciate handmade planes!

Thanks for the link. That was interesting. I gotta say not entirely unexpected. So I took from it that these tools are great tools but, whether they are worth sums of up to $5-Gees is I think a question best left to the purchaser.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I don't believe there was any request for justifications."

True enough..... good point...

"...the questions would come as the owners cropped up..."

Also probably true though it seems that we may never know since none have "cropped up"....;)

YDMD

[Grant Vanbokklen]

"I don't believe there was any request for justifications."

True enough..... good point...

"...the questions would come as the owners cropped up..."

Also probably true though it seems that we may never know since none have "cropped up"....;)

YDMD

Or they are out in the shop working because they actually have plenty of money to buy wood whenever they want.

[Michael Gibbons]

I would be very surprised if an actual owner posted here, given the attacks they are likely to receive. But what does it matter if no one has them anyway? Clearly Mr. Holtey is selling enough to stay in business, so what are we looking for here? Is there some presumption that wealthy people don't participate in online forums?

If they do own one, I would like to see the rest of their shop. It's most likely impressive.

[Glenn Kiso]

Regardless of being labeled, I own and use a Holtey 98.. However, this was bought back in 2001 I think when prices were "more" reasonable and the dollar far stronger. Like all my tools, it's a tool with a purpose and gets used as any other tool. I do, however, admire the craftsmanship that went into the design and execution.

[Frank Drew]

How many of us who've made custom furniture (or custom anything) for a living can afford our own work?

Thank God for people who are keeping this kind of work alive; I think it's more important that fine workmanship remain at least somewhat viable than to worry about who can or who can't afford an expensive hand-made tool.

[philip marcou]

How many of us who've made custom furniture (or custom anything) for a living can afford our own work?

Thank God for people who are keeping this kind of work alive; I think it's more important that fine workmanship remain at least somewhat viable than to worry about who can or who can't afford an expensive hand-made tool.

You can take a 21 gun salute.:)

[Derby Matthews]

I came to this thread hoping to find others who share my admiration for these fine tools, and while many seem to share my drool factor found surprise and a little disappointment in one or two of the posts.

I'd love to own an A1! I would use it daily with a song in my heart - AND be proud of sharing my joy with others (sharing is different from gloating, IMHO). My impression is that anyone who flames or ridicules a person for owning or making a thing of such beauty and utility is simply envious (and a little mean-spirited - I'm an expert on these behaviors, if you doubt me I'll be happy to introduce you to my ex)).

Oh, and I do my own web surfing - heck that's a good deal of the fun of buying and selling cool things - and am a very rich man, just don't have a lot of cash (yet). :~>

[neil ertz]

OK…I lurk here quite a bit but don’t often post………
but I’ll own up here as I own and use several Holtey planes every day in my full time work.
Yes they are expensive and yes they don’t work an awful lot better then a very well set up cheaper plane…but they are to me worth every penny I spent on them, they are a joy to work with and oddly I find myself inspired to do better work when I work with beautiful tools.
In the end it is a very personal thing where we decide to spend our hard earned cash and I certainly wouldn’t consider my self anywhere close to wealthy, but I am fairly successful in my specialized field of woodworking in that I have work booked for the next few years.
I guess as someone else pointed out wealth is very subjective and the fact that I could even consider buying a Holtey might make be better off then some, but I certainly don’t have money to throw around, and every bit of equipment I buy and use in my work is very carefully considered.
neil

[Al Navas]

Is it OK to talk about our shop-make Krenov-inspired planes? :D ;) :cool:


Al

[Derby Matthews]

Or two, or three ;)



Is it OK to talk about our shop-make Krenov-inspired planes? :D ;) :cool:


Al

[James Taglienti]

outstanding

thank you frank

[glenn bradley]

Do you realize how many Festools you could buy? :D

[Rick Markham]

How many of us who've made custom furniture (or custom anything) for a living can afford our own work?

Thank God for people who are keeping this kind of work alive; I think it's more important that fine workmanship remain at least somewhat viable than to worry about who can or who can't afford an expensive hand-made tool.

I just want to chime in, my intention in no way, in the other thread was to attack Hotly owners or Karl Hotly himself. If I had the resources and had the abilities I would want a plane from every artisan maker that I liked.

Franks point is the absolute truth! Artisan craftsmanship is something to be relished, and appreciated. I would honestly probably pay $10 to push a Hotly plane! :D

[Ron Williams]

But, my consumption of $400/bottle Pappy Van Winkle bourbon makes not having the Porsche or the Rolex much more tolerable! :p

Just purchased a bottle to be shared at My daughters wedding

[Andrew Pitonyak]

But, my consumption of $400/bottle Pappy Van Winkle bourbon makes not having the Porsche or the Rolex much more tolerable! :p
I do not own a Holtey plane, but I do own a bottle of scotch that is older than my wife... So, either I have a very young wife, or a very expensive bottle of scotch :D

Hoping I might be able to see a Holtey plane in Cincinnati at the wood working show this October.

[Nicholas Dalberg]

I ordered another 6 no really!:D

[Rick Markham]

That's awesome Nicholas... your level of addiction to planes far outweighs mine :D I must say your one lucky guy! I consider myself blessed to have what I do, but you sir... are truly blessed!!! ;)

[john brenton]

Pretty awkward post.

Oh well, forums are weird like that. I joined a forum about a year ago and I didn't even last two days. I posted something and the responses started pissing me off and I left. It happens.


5 days and 269 views later, and no one replied that they have one. I'm probably wrong for sure to everyone else, but it's as I figured, they are too expensive for the average woodworker.

[Tim McEneany]

I'm a newbie neander so I don't really know what I'm talking about when it comes to hand planes, but wow, those planes are beautiful!