Chisels

[Rick Dohm]

I was looking through my new issue of Hartville Tools catalog and came across their chisel offerings. I've been wanting to get a set of mortising chisels, but haven't found anything in the "used" market. They sell a Germna brand called "MHG". I've never heard of the brand, so I was just wondered if anyone has an opinion on the quality of these. Then, if not these, what is a good brand to consider if looking at new? Any recommendations on "used" brands (or at least brands to avoid) while I continue my search?

Thanks for your help.

Rick

[Peter Tremblay]

I have used the MHG chisels. Both the bench and the mortise chisels. They are well built but I was very unimpressed with their steel. I ended up getting rid of them.

I think a good similar design would be Hirsh or Two cherries. Their steel is great and they have similar mortise chisels.
I ended up saving my pennies and getting the Ray Iles mortise chisels. I am glad that I did and the wait was more than worth it.

Peter

[Mike Henderson]

English style mortise chisels (pigstickers) are offered on a pretty regular basis on eBay. I put together a set from 3/16" to 3/4" over time but you really only need a couple - probably 3/8" and either 1/4" or 1/2" depending on whether you make large or small mortises. The chisels marked "cast steel" have proven to be good at edge retention (for me).

There's a 3/8" listed right now - 250226918708, and a 3/8" and 5/16" - 320231125840 (no affiliation).

Occasionally, they're offered without handles and those generally go for a lower price - the handles are easy to make, and you can dress them up by using some attractive wood - figured maple looks good.

I sharpen them to a 25* bevel angle then put a secondary bevel of 35*.

But most of the time when I cut a mortise, I drill out the waste, then trim the sides with a regular chisel.

Mike

[Johnny Kleso]

Rick,
I both a set of Two Cherries from them which are made under the same roof as Hirsch which LV sells. These are HUGE much bigger than they look on line :)

Back to the point the MHG look a lot like they are made by the same factory just another label..

If you want the facts as to if there is any difference I would ask

Dieter Schmid @ Fine Tools in .DE
http://www.fine-tools.com/index.htm

My advise is dont buy a whole set unless you need one, Chris Swarthz says buy a 5/16" for your first for most cast work..

[Rick Dohm]

Thanks for your advice. FWIW, I spoke with a tech at Hartville. He told me that they have had "excellent results" with the MHG line that they "discovered" and introduced to the US and are "very pleased" with their performance. He said that they are dropping at least some of their other brands as MHG expands their line. He said they are a relatively new company making virtually the same tool as Two Cherries and Hirsch using the same steel. I don't know much about Hartville either, so I can't really comment on their comments. And Peter, I can't explain your experience against that background. Thanks for the tip, Johnny, I will try to contact Dieter by email.

Rick

[George Moore]

I have a set of the MHG chisels and was disappointed in them at first. But after sharpening them twice the edge holds up great and they hold their edge as good as an AI that I have. The same with their mortising chisel.

George

[Mark Stutz]

George,
I've heard the same comments made about several kinds of edge tools, including LN, and about both chisels and plane blades. Suspect it has something to do with the initial rough grinding causing a slight loss of temper, and that you have to get back to "good steel".

Mark

[George Moore]

Mark,

I think you are right about that. It has something to do with the manufacturing process somehow.

George

[Timothy Gallagher]

I am knew to this message board thing but I thought I should share something with you guys.

I was fortunate enough to speak with a woodworking friend over in Germany and he tells me that all German made chisels have the same specifications down to minute details about the alloys used.

According to law they have to be made to the same German Industrial Norms, he says. He further told me that there are only two makers left in Germany (MHG and Two Cherries) and both brands are considered to be about the same quality although Two Cherries has always cost more as they are a better known brand.

Go figure, they make us woodworkers pay more for a better known brand in the false belief that we are getting something better.

[James Mittlefehldt]

I am knew to this message board thing but I thought I should share something with you guys.

I was fortunate enough to speak with a woodworking friend over in Germany and he tells me that all German made chisels have the same specifications down to minute details about the alloys used.

According to law they have to be made to the same German Industrial Norms, he says. He further told me that there are only two makers left in Germany (MHG and Two Cherries) and both brands are considered to be about the same quality although Two Cherries has always cost more as they are a better known brand.

Go figure, they make us woodworkers pay more for a better known brand in the false belief that we are getting something better.

So buy the Hirsch chisels they are cheaper I believe than two cherries, but made by the same company.

[Rick Dohm]

I got a reply from Dieter -- thanks again for the tip, Johnny. Here's what he had to say:

thank you for your inquiry. We can comment on those we have. We carry the strong firmer chisels and do not feel any difference in practical work. The handles are a bit thinner than those of the two cherries firmer chisels and fit well in the hand.

Best Regards
Dieter Schmid

Dieter Schmid
Feine Werkzeuge

Georg-Wilhelm-Strasse 7 a
10711 Berlin
Tel: ++49 (0)30 342 1757
Fax: ++49 (0)30 342 1764
www.feinewerkzeuge.de (https://webmailcluster.tds.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.feinewerkzeuge .de)
www.fine-tools.com (https://webmailcluster.tds.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.fine-tools.com)
Don't know if these means much to anyone, but taken with Tim's comments, it does round out our shared knowledge base a little.:o

Rick

[John Dykes]

I know Two Cherries and Hirsch are liked by many here, but I have to express an opposing view. In buying my first set of bench chisels, I studied, researched, compared - and came to the conclusion that the Hirsch was, by far, the best bang for the buck. So, with confidence, I bought a set of Hirsch bench chisels.

I'll never buy Hirsch anything again - and if "Two Cherries" are the same, I'll never buy those either. The highly polished backs may look pretty, but they are the devil to flatten. After struggling for many days, I gave up and got some 750 clones - which were a pleasure to flatten, sharpen, and use.

Since that time, I've also found that "polished German chisels" aren't recommended by other respected craftsmen.

Good luck,
- jbd

[Mike Henderson]

After struggling for many days, I gave up and got some 750 clones - which were a pleasure to flatten, sharpen, and use.Good luck,
- jbd
John - which 750 clones did you purchase?

Mike

[John Dykes]

Mike -

After several miserable and frustrating days struggling with the Hirsch, I fought with myself on what to go to next. After having such good luck with vintage Stanleys, I spent quite a while looking on ebay. Vintage 750s command a pretty penny - and several of them are "probably 750s" or without handles. I don't have the equipment to turn my own handles - and I'm not smart enough to know when a "probable 750" isn't really a 750. Denver doesn't have much in the way of flea markets or cheap antique shops either.

This pushed me to look for newer tools - Sorby, Ashley Iles, Henry Taylor, and the myriad of Japanese chisels. I would have liked to delve into the Japanese tools (Charlesworth, Kingshott) - but felt like I'd make another "Hirsch"-like mistake among the different brands. Sorby I counted out early. Bob S. seems to like the Iles - as do many others - and the reputation is fantastic, but again - I was fearful of another Hirsch mistake.

So - to finally answer your question, I bled and bought Lie-Nielsen - something I knew was very good.

I know you've had great luck with Hirsch. But my experience was flat out miserable...

Respectfully -
- jbd

[Johnny Kleso]

David Charleswoth pointed out that Two Cherries hare so highly polished that the corners of the back have a raidus and take some getting use to because of there lenght I have to add..

Mine just dont have that big of a raidus to complaint about..
It is not a sharpe square corner but dont think many do these days..

[Mike Henderson]

John - I do have a set of Hirsch and it did take a lot of work to flattent the backs. But in my continual search for the perfect chisel, I bought a set of LNs and appreciate the way they're made (accurate).

And now, just for fun, I'm in the process of putting together a set of Witherbys (buying one at a time). They seem to be good chisels, also.

To give an indication of the differences, if you put a set of calipers on an LN, it measures exactly what it's suppose to be - a half inch chisel is one half inch. If you measure most older chisels, they're never what they're suppose to be - most are larger by a 32nd or a 64th. Not that it makes any difference in the use.

Congratulations on your LNs. I know you'll enjoy using them.

Mike

[Mark Stutz]

John -

And now, just for fun, I'm in the process of putting together a set of Witherbys (buying one at a time).

Mike


Let me know if you come across an extra 1/8...need one for the set I'm assembling.:D;)

Mark

[Johnny Kleso]

Mike,
I have a complete set of Witherbys just got a nice 1 1/4" to finish set and I am very glade I started about 5 years ago as prices have got crazy..

I the old days a woodworker would set his mortice gauge to the chisel so it did not make any difference if it was big or small..

I read in the really old days the plane makers would make the H&R planes to the blades and that way it is so hard to match old sets and make one..

If I had to do it over again I think I would spring for a set of LNs but tomorrow I post a pic of part of my chisel collection and show you how much I need another set :)