Tire date codes: Caveat emptor

[Mike Armstrong]

I’ve been an auto/motorsports enthusiast for about 50 yrs, and this is a new one on me. If you’re in the dark like I was, this might be something to remember next time you’re tire shopping.

I bought a set of Michelins at Costco for my little SUV in Aug, ‘03. They’ve been great tires; 60K miles on ‘em now and must have at least 20K left. Last week, I noticed one was low, looked and found what looks like a drywall-type screw in the tread. Off to Costco for a repair.

The tire guy looks at it and says, “We won’t repair it. Our policy is to not repair tires over 5 yrs old and it’s over 7 yrs old. It has a lot of sidewall checking, it’s not safe, it should be replaced.” What??? :eek: At first, I was stunned. Even their records show when I bought it. It turns out that the date code on the sidewall is “1201" meaning it was manufactured in the 12th week of 2001.

A brief version of the intense exchange of ideas that followed:

So, you sold me tires that were 2-1/2 yrs old, essentially half way through their expected life?
No, they were stored in a warehouse. They were “new” when you bought them.

So, in 4-1/2 years, they went from “new” to 7 yrs old? What kind of math is that?
Regardless of their age, they have sidewall checking and should be replaced.

I don’t think they’d look like that if they were 4-1/2 yrs old instead of 7!
Well, 60K miles? I think you got your money’s worth. (That part really pi$$ed me off!)

I don’t believe in running tires down to the cord to get that last mile out of them. When they get down there, better to replace them and be safer. But there’s something inherently wrong here. I started to do a little checking into this and find that while 2-1/2 yrs may be extreme, "old" new tires may not be all that unusual. After all this time, I don't expect to get any satisfaction, but I’ll be sure to check tires codes on anything I buy from now on!

Mike

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

If it really steams your chaps send 'em a letter they will know is from you and most surely will open and read - cause it'll be a summons and complaint.

Got to the Secretary of State's office and inquire who their "registered agent" in your state is for "service of process."

Send it to to that person.
Accuse 'em of Fraud, and consumer fraud and demand treble and exemplary damages. Do some googling around and learn what are the "elements " of each tort you have to prove to win. Yah there are elements. Ya gotta have prove 'em all by a measure of proof that just squeaks past 50% probability.

And just for good measure file a business practices complaint with your states AG's office.
Some how I don't see Cost Co spending a ton of money defending this when a little money or new tires will make you happy. And the worst that can happen is you'll lose. You'll cost 'em money either way.

So one way or the other you will jump up and kick em in the toes.

[Randal Stevenson]

I’ve been an auto/motorsports enthusiast for about 50 yrs, and this is a new one on me. If you’re in the dark like I was, this might be something to remember next time you’re tire shopping.

I bought a set of Michelins at Costco for my little SUV in Aug, ‘03. They’ve been great tires; 60K miles on ‘em now and must have at least 20K left. Last week, I noticed one was low, looked and found what looks like a drywall-type screw in the tread. Off to Costco for a repair.


Mike

Age isn't the only factor that can cause checking. That said, I haven't looked into Costco's return policy in a while, but you might find out. They used to have a lifetime return policy (I know electronics has changed purchased after a certain date) and if your unhappy with their service over this, that would be one way to get your point across.

[Heather Thompson]

Mike,

I am surprised to hear this, Costco has always had a reputation of going above and beyond to make the customer happy. Did you talk with a manager or just the folks that work in the auto center? I just checked their website and under the Help tab they state their return policy, I would print out the page and make another visit, per their site.
Merchandise: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.

Heather ;)

[Curt Fuller]

I suspect you've just encountered a "bad apple" in the Costco tire department. Go over his head and I'll bet you get an apology and your tire repaired.

[Greg Peterson]

Any tire shop will fix your tire and most decent ones will do it for free. Some damages can not be repaired. Even if they charge you five bucks, it's better than having to buy a whole new set.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Sounds like the tires you bought were unused, but not 'new'. At what point does a retailer have to disclose this?

Perhaps the state newspaper of record would be interested in helping you do some research here - with Costco's input, of course.

At the same time, 60,000 miles on a set of tires is quite good. You got your money's worth anyway.

[Lee Schierer]

I bought a set of Michelins at Costco for my little SUV in Aug, ‘03. They’ve been great tires; 60K miles on ‘em now and must have at least 20K left. Last week, I noticed one was low, looked and found what looks like a drywall-type screw in the tread. Off to Costco for a repair.

Wow, 60K on a set of Michelin's, I just had to replace the ones on our car that came on the car at 37K. These were $200 plus each tires. My sister needs to replace hers at about the same mileage. Yes they were rotated every 7,000 miles. I think you got a bargain for your senior citizen tires.

Go to the local corner garage and they will fix it for about $5.00.

[Mike Henderson]

While I've had mostly good experiences at Costco, my few bad experiences have been with the tire department. For example, I go in to buy tires for my car and they tell me I need "high speed" tires. I tell them I'm retired and drive well within the speed limit. I haven't driven 150MPH at any time in my lifetime. They insist I need "high speed" tires. I finally get a manager and he has me sign a waiver and they sell me the regular tires.

Of course, the high speed tires cost close to twice what regular tires cost.

Second case - I was on a trip and had a tire failure on my rear tire so I buy two new tires for the rear (on the road and not from Costco). When I return, I go to Costco and buy two new tires for the front. They insist on rotating the tires to put the new tires on the rear. I tell them that the front tires get the most wear and do most of the braking so I want the best tires on the front. They insist on putting them on the rear. I talk to a manager and he also insist on putting them on the rear.

So I give up, let them put them on the rear, and when I get home I move them to the front. Real PITA.

Mike

[Tom Godley]

Depending on the type of tire -- the age of the tire can make a difference.

Most high performance tires tend to the softer "rubber". A two year old tire will have different properties on the road than a new one. I always check to make sure that the date code and "N" code -- if it has one -- are the same for all four tires when I replace them. Regular tires are less affected by this.

I have found Costco to be quite good when it comes to customer service.
I have never bought tires from them. Do they record the serial number of each tire??

It would be interesting to know what the major manufactures say about max age a tire should be sold.

I have always found Michelins - because of the rubber compound to be very long lived but not the best in wet NE weather - especially past the 5 year mark.

I would not like to have purchased 2.5 year old tires -- but with 60k on them they were at the end.

[glenn bradley]

Sorry for your trouble and thank you for posting the info. I'm just about due for new tires myself and I'll be checking. the codes.

[Mike Armstrong]

. . . Do they record the serial number of each tire?? . . I would not like to have purchased 2.5 year old tires -- but with 60k on them they were at the end.

They do record the serial #, but not sure about the date code; it's a separate number. I wouldn't have knowingly accepted 2-1/2 yr old tires, either. And I didn't get my money's worth, 'cuz with 60K miles on them, there would be another 20K on them, if they weren't too old - that's the rub.

I've found tirerack.com to be a good source for consumer reviews on tires and a lot of informative articles, including this one - http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138 - about tire aging. It seems that some tires can hang around the warehouse a long time. It's all relative to how much driving you do. At 25-30K miles a year, you'll probably wear them out before there's significant deterioration. OTOH, driving half that much brings the deterioration issue into play.

Anyway, I'm not finished at Costco just yet.

Mike

[JayStPeter]

The last three times I've gone to Costco to buy tires, they refused to sell me the proper tire. All 3 times they claimed the tires I had were not standard for my car. The first time, they were right. I had upgraded to bigger wheels/tires from a newer model of the same car. The second and third time were just stupid. In both cases, I had a top of the line model that wasn't listed correctly in their computer. The ovloV had alloy rims that were wider than the steel rims, but they only had the steel rim tire size in their computer. They were perfectly willing to put too small a tire on my rim, which was significantly wider than the steel wheels, but wouldn't put the proper size on. Wow, not putting on tire sizes that aren't listed in the computer really helps from a safety standpoint (their claim), eh. The last one was my truck. I have a Ford F150 Lariat model. The Lariat model is the XLT model plus leather interior and some other miscellaneous stuff. Their computer showed the correct sized tire for the XLT, but didn't have the Lariat listed. Because they didn't have the Lariat in there at all, they were unwilling to put tires on the vehicle period. In all cases, every other tire store in existence was perfectly willing to put the same size tires I had on the vehicle on there. I don't bother with them for tires anymore. They clearly don't know what they are doing. Most of the discount tire places are similar in price these days anyway.

[Tom Godley]

Mike -- interesting article from Tire Rack.

I have bought many tires from them over the years -- quite a few winter tire/rim sets balanced and ready to go!

I can not remember reading this article about them selling tires that could be that old -- very interesting. I have never had the misfortune of getting any.

I own a transport company - so I am always doing something with tires :(

I guess a light, well balanced auto operated mostly on the highway in a moderate climate may get to 80k - but I personally have never seen a auto tire that had much life left in at 60k.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Mike. I am surprised at the 'baloney' you got from Costco. I have never bought tires from them, so I can't pass judgment on their service policies. I have always bought my replacement tires at Discount Tire. I have always gotten good service and what I regard as a fair price. I can recommend them without hesitation.

Something to think about for future tire purchases.:)

[Craig Che]

I wouldn't worry too much about the "born on" date for a tire, they are usually stored in a climate controlled warehouse so they are like new.

Usually wear comes from a few different things, temperature changes (climate & heat from use) and being stored for extended periods without being used.

[Mike Armstrong]

Usually wear comes from a few different things. . . and being stored for extended periods without being used.
I know that an inflated spare that's "stored" in your car deteriorates with time, and I'm aware of the other wear/age factors, but. . .


I wouldn't worry too much about the "born on" date for a tire, they are usually stored in a climate controlled warehouse so they are like new. . .
. . . in effect, they're telling me to ignore the "born on" date when I buy them, but then later they use that date to say they're too old.:mad: You can't have it both ways.

Mike

[Joe Chritz]

Above everything else the sidewalls are one of the most important pieces of information to check on the tires.

On high mileage tires the sidewalls tend to deteriorate faster than the tread. This leaves tread that has mileage left but sidewalls that don't. This is especially hazardous in suv type vehicles and trucks with high tire walls and high centers of gravity. Remember the Firestone/explorer problems?

I am not a tire expert by any stretch but I did have a few days training on how to determine if tire defects/wear contributed to an accident. That was taught by a Uniroyal tire engineer.

The excuse you got doesn't hold water but 80K is a lot on a set of tires. We get that an more sometimes with our transport van but that isn't much more than 12-18 months driving.

Check your tires and check your inflation.

Personally I would not repair a tire with over 60K on them. I would get a very good deal on a new set from Costco however with proper complaining.

Joe

[Randal Stevenson]

On high mileage tires the sidewalls tend to deteriorate faster than the tread. This leaves tread that has mileage left but sidewalls that don't. This is especially hazardous in suv type vehicles and trucks with high tire walls and high centers of gravity. Remember the Firestone/explorer problems?


Joe


Joe, the biggest factor, in the Firestone/Ford issue, is inflation. The car engineers, said the tires should be inflated at x, while the tire engineers, said that y-z was the range that this tire should be inflated at, yet Ford put them on their vehicles, at Fords underinflated spec.

A pet peeve of mine, is people should be able to buy a new car, WITH a tire warranty.

[alex adkison]

While I've had mostly good experiences at Costco, my few bad experiences have been with the tire department. For example, I go in to buy tires for my car and they tell me I need "high speed" tires. I tell them I'm retired and drive well within the speed limit. I haven't driven 150MPH at any time in my lifetime. They insist I need "high speed" tires. I finally get a manager and he has me sign a waiver and they sell me the regular tires.

Of course, the high speed tires cost close to twice what regular tires cost.

Second case - I was on a trip and had a tire failure on my rear tire so I buy two new tires for the rear (on the road and not from Costco). When I return, I go to Costco and buy two new tires for the front. They insist on rotating the tires to put the new tires on the rear. I tell them that the front tires get the most wear and do most of the braking so I want the best tires on the front. They insist on putting them on the rear. I talk to a manager and he also insist on putting them on the rear.

So I give up, let them put them on the rear, and when I get home I move them to the front. Real PITA.

Mike

The better tires in the front can cause spinning out of control in a hydroplaning situation. That is why the insisted on the rear.

[Mike Armstrong]

The better tires in the front can cause spinning out of control in a hydroplaning situation. That is why the insisted on the rear.

Yup, it may seem counterintuitive, but here it is in a little more detail: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52

Mike

[Joe Chritz]

Simple thing to remember is locked wheels lead. If the rear locks or in this case hydroplanes then any rotational force will cause them to rotate to the front. That is what causes highside accidents on motorcycles as well.

Underinflation is a serious problem. It was far from the only problem with the explorer problem, neither company is excluded from blame. That is however a highly debated and fun to discuss topic for another day.

Some things aren't worth taking chances with. Tires are one of those things.

Joe

[Bill Cunningham]

Once you pointed out that they sold you 'old' tires, I'm really surprised they did not either refund your money, or give you a new tire.. My experience with Costco is they will bend over backwards to make you happy.. I had a 42" plasma crap out on me after a little more than two years.. The Manuf. basically told me "gee tough luck' your warranty is up. I bought it a costco, so I called them and explained in 'my' thinking, a 2000.00 tv should last longer than two years.. She asked me if I still had my receipt, I said yup, and she said bring it back, and I did.. They gave me a full refund, and I upgraded to a 50" for the same money.. And, apparently this is not unique. I have heard stories like this from many people..Talk to the manager about buying 'old tires' You will either get a new tire, or a refund..

[Mike Henderson]

The better tires in the front can cause spinning out of control in a hydroplaning situation. That is why the insisted on the rear.
In my situation, the rear tires were new and had the same ratings, except a lower treadwear rating. That's why I wanted the new tires on the front because they get more wear. I could not see, and still cannot see, why there was any problem with putting the new tires on the front.

Mike

[In any case, this hydroplaning situation must be very slight or we'd never rotate tires. During rotation, we take the worn front tires and move them to the back, putting the better tires on the front so that they can wear more to even out the wear between the tires. The reason the front wear more, especially in a front drive car, is that (1) the majority of the weight is on the front, (2) most of the braking is done by the front tires, and (3) on a front drive car, the power is applied through the front tires.]

[Russ Filtz]

Where is the screw at? If it is outside of the outer tread groove (near the edge) most shops won't fix it. Takes too much stress during cornering. Buy a $6 plug kit at WalMart and do it yourself. I do it all the time and have never had a failure from a plug. Had some tires with 3 or 4 plugs in them before they wore out. Just make sure you have a compressor or do it at a filling station before pulling the screw out. Even if it's not leaking fast, once you rough up the hole it will! Simple procedure and takes 5 min.

[Mike Armstrong]

After I moved up through the management chain, Costco has agreed to replace the tires and favorably prorate the old ones for mileage, a reasonable and acceptable solution for me. I had no problem with the tire quality and wear and now I'm able negate the 2-1/2 yr additional age I didn't want to "buy" in the first place. And they want me to talk to the regional tire guru to see if they may need to make some adjustment in their policies to avoid similar future situations. So I remain satisfied with Costco customer service.

Mike

[Lee Schierer]

Joe, the biggest factor, in the Firestone/Ford issue, is inflation. The car engineers, said the tires should be inflated at x, while the tire engineers, said that y-z was the range that this tire should be inflated at, yet Ford put them on their vehicles, at Fords underinflated spec.

A pet peeve of mine, is people should be able to buy a new car, WITH a tire warranty.I just traded my 1996 Explorer last fall and I can say with confidence that I had to add 5 psi per week to the tires to keep up with the leakage. The cast aluminum wheels don't play well with the steel clip on balancing weights and road salt. Corrosion starts right behind the steel clips where they touch the aluminum and by the tire beads. This leads to air escaping and it gets worse over time. Most Explorers I see driving around have the same type of wheels and the same problem so 90+% of them on the road probably have under inflated tires. Explorer owners I have spoken to are completely in the dark about the air leakage due to the corrosion and the effect low air pressure has on handling.

[Mike Armstrong]

My high regard for Costco customer service remains intact. After making no headway on my tire age issue with the tire manager ("Well, 60K miles? You got your money's worth" and "We just sell what they send us"), I had a nice polite conversation with the store manager. She talked to the tire guy and came back and said they would make a "liberal" adjustment on the two remaining original Michelins I still had toward two new ones. My originals had 60K miles on them and probably 15-20K left.

Since I bought those tires over 4 years ago, the price has increased 50% to over $200 ea. I drove away with two new ones for a total of $132. I don't know how they arrived at that figure, but I wanted to leave quickly before they reviewed the transaction and maybe found a mistake. Sometimes you don't want to ask too many questions.:D

Mike

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

let's see......re-reading your posts...ah, here's your problem...


Off to Costco for a repair

take it to a local garage (if there's one nearby). I've had much better luck (and much more honesty) from local garages than from the "chain store" car repair places.

[Brian Elfert]

Tire inflation issues are why tire pressure monitors are now standard equipment for 2008 vehicles.

[Paul Engle]

Buy American , the job you save may be yours. make that " the economy you save may be ours " I quit fighting for the French 30 some years ago and they still insist on trying to sell me their economy. I run Cooper tires on my Z28, guareenntteeeddddd fresh .Made in the USA . I know my Z was assembled in Canada , least it didn't come off some Asian boat.

[Mike Armstrong]

I resurrected this thread as a friend just sent me a link to an ABC story from May '08 about old tires. Guess my experience wasn't all that unique and certainly not as egregious as other examples given:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4826897

Mike

[David Sims]

Holy cow if I got 60K from a set of tires I would be writing the company to say thanks