Shellac Fumes

[Steve Kohn]

First let me thank everyone for the generous sharing of advice and experience of this group. Secondly I rate myself as a middling woodworker, but an absolute novice at finishing. The extent of my finishing experience involves using one Minwax product or another straight out of the can. So following the advice I got on this site I started finishing the ash entertainment center this weekend. I got thru the step of raising the grain, sanding the fuzz off, applying the water based dye, and tonight started brush applying the Zinsser Sealcoat Shellac. I am working in a 30X30 shop heated with a gas fired Hot Dawg heater. When I opened the shellac I turned off the heater, but left the doors closed to keep in the heat. Within 20 minutes it felt like I had drunk about 6 alcoholic beverages. I quickly opened some doors and that helped immensely, but now was worried about the shellac not setting up properly. Also I plan on finishing over the shellac with a water-based poly. Will I have similiar problems there?What the heck do you guys do to apply shellac in the winter in a northern climate?

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Steve, no northern climate here (yahoo, yippee, :D ) and I'm by no means the finishing guru like a couple here, but from what I understand it's almost 'the colder the better'. Since the solvent for shellac is alcohol it evaporates real fast. I have read there is no problem using shellac down to 40 degrees. The colder the longer the time you have to work it, which is usually not long at all.

Compatibility with other finishes: I've read this any number of times. "As long as it's dewaxed, shellac sticks to anything and anything sticks to shellac."

[Larry Fox]

I asked Jeff Jewitt about temperature and alcohol shellac a while back and his answer was consistent with Richard's - the colder the better up to a point.

WB is a different story - I believe for Target products 55 is about the bottom of it's range.

[Jim Becker]

I don't find that I get a lot of fume issues when brushing shellac. Spraying is a different issue. It is what it is, so proper ventilation and a good respirator are essential.

With the water borne product, you will not have "fumes", per se, but will still want to wear a respirator to insure you don't ingest/breath in the suspended fines that get in the air while spraying. The "smell" will be about the same as latex house paint, give or take. And do pay attention to temperature when using the water borne products. Somewhere in the middle of the range is best. I usually heat my Target Coatings USL slightly in a water bath when spraying in the winter...even though I get my shop up to a comfortable temp, the finish container, which sits in the shop, is considerably colder. Warming the finish up lets it spray well and lay down properly.

[Howard Acheson]

Shellac is an evaporative finish. Temperature does not have an affect for all practical purposes with the alcohol evaporating. You can finish with shellac down to where ever you want.

[Steven Wilson]

Well I've used shellac in my garage when it's been around 10F and it works although when it's that cold it can take a hile to dry. Typically I keep the shellac and the project to be finished in the house and then take it out to the garage when I apply the finish. After I'm done I let it sit in the cold for an hour or so to dry and then take into the house to get hard. If you're working in an enclosed space you should use a respirator with an organic vapor filter cartridge installed; the alcohol will give you a buzz.

[John Thompson]

Not only do I use a 1/2 vapor respirator.. I wear tight plastic safety glasses as the alcohol fume irritate my eyes when exposed some the periods I use it.

Sarge..

[Steve Schoene]

As people have noted, the shellac has no problem with the cooler temps.

Not so with the waterborne finish. 55° - 60° is an absolute minimum. That means that the project itself must have come up to that temperature, not just the air, and the material. And, it must stay that warm for sufficient time for the finish to cure before it cools down. If you try to use it when the temperature is too low it can just bead up and refuse to lay down on the wood.

You don't want to breathe the ethylene glycol ether that is a solvent for waterborne finishes either. It doesn't have the odor of ethyl alcohol or mineral spirits but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

[Steve Kohn]

I took the advice and opened the doors while applying the shellac. Froze my buns off, but the finish actually looks pretty good. Next weekend I will start applying the water born poly. Minwax of course.

However, now you guys have me scared about the fumes from that. Opening the doors is not going to be an option since the high in Chicago is supposed to be 50.

What kind of respirator are you suggesting when I apply the Minwax?

[John Thompson]

I took the advice and opened the doors while applying the shellac. Froze my buns off, but the finish actually looks pretty good. Next weekend I will start applying the water born poly. Minwax of course.

However, now you guys have me scared about the fumes from that. Opening the doors is not going to be an option since the high in Chicago is supposed to be 50.

What kind of respirator are you suggesting when I apply the Minwax?

I have a North N95 half mast for dust particles.. but for fumes I use a MSA Advantage 200 LS with MSA GME P100 catridtge filters. It works on both dust and high toxic fumes. The GMA P100 filters will do the fumes.. but the GME P100 will cover many more as formaldehyde.. chlorine.. etc.. etc..

Only about $14 for the mask and the filters will run an average of $20 for a pair. The GMA (difference in the A and E filtration) runs about $15 a pair. Light-weigh and very form fitting as they did research on 8000 faces and make them from very pliable plastic to form fit your face.

Highly regarded in the industry and available at many sources on-line. You don't see them in the local WW shops often, even though Highland WW does carry them. I just re-ordered filters today from I believer Professional Safety or similar without looking. Just do a Google for GME P100 catridges and you will see their site. They are in Wisconsin I do believe.

Regardless of which you get... please get one or you will regret it down the road.. and wear it when working with fumes...

Sarge..