Electrolytic Rust Removal

[Russ Hauser]

I have a Stanley/Bailey #4 plane body in the electrolytic bath as we speak. The hardest part will be the waiting. Sure is making lots of small bubbles and murky water.

Russ

[Brian Hale]

I'm using this method more and more and really like the results. Let us know how it turns out!

Brian :)

[Russ Hauser]

I started it up again this morning. Couldn't bring myself to let it run all night unattended.

Russ

[Russ Hauser]

Took the body out of the bath and replaced it with the frog. The body cleaned up real well after a total of 5 hours in the bath. All rust was gone. If this plane had Japaning on it, it was very thin, and 60% to 70% gone. The stuff acted more like paint. The frog cleaned up after only 2 hours in the bath. I painted the body and frog for now and will mess around with Japaning some other time. This is not a collector's item, it's to be a working plane. I decided the blade and chip breaker were far too rusty and bought replacements on the Bay. When the plane is all back together, I'll post my photos. This has been dirty work, but fun.

Russ

[Brian Hale]

Hey Russ, how's that plane coming along????

Brian :)

[Russ Hauser]

Hey Brian:

The plane is as done as it'll be for now. The blade and chip breaker came today, and in an hour, using the "Scary Sharp" method, I had it taking .0015 shavings off a hard maple board. I think I'll keep it. Is this the "Slipery Slope" I've heard about? Photos in the near future when I figure out how to reduce them to fit on this site.

Russ

[Tom Veatch]

... Photos in the near future when I figure out how to reduce them to fit on this site.


Several ways that can be done. I use the Image Resizer Powertoy (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx) - free download from Microsoft that adds a resize menu selection to the popup menu when you rightclick on an image file.

[Russ Hauser]

Thanks Tom:

Lets see if I can do this.

It doesn't show, but I made the anode to wrap around the object being de rusted. Also I forgot to take a photo of the plane before I took it apart, but I'm sure you all know what it looked like. This was great fun. I wish I had known about the electrolysis rust removal when I was restoring my 1930 Model A many years ago.

Russ

[Roy Hahn]

Ok, So now you got me going too. Here's my recent #5 that I got from a local shop last week. I like the natural metal look, so I sprayed what would normally be black, with semi-gloss lacquer.:D
What do you think???

[Jim Koepke]

I think this is also a good educational for some of the questions in the thread about how far gone a plane can be.

The #4 looks like it had a good amount of rust, but not deep blooms or scale rust.

Russ,
Did you have to do much sanding to get the sides to polish up as nice as they did?

Roy,
You make me feel lazy or something. My #5s looked worse than that and I just wiped them and steel wooled them and they are great users.

Of course, that was before I learned about these Creek side chats.

Maybe someday they will get the full restore to make them pretty again.

jim

[Roy Hahn]

Russ,
I would also like to know how you got the sides looking so good. I have a # 140 that's about to go through the same treatment, but the bottom and sides are very dark/black in some places.

I wish there was a technique in just brightening the surface areas without heavy sanding and polishing. Has anyone tried bleach?

[Russ Hauser]

Hey Roy and Jim:

The sides have some deep pitting that doesn't show in the photos. I had to resort to my 6 inch belt sander to remove enough metal to get down to a decent surface. The rest was done using various grades of wet/dry up to 1000 and WD-40 for lubricant. There's still a lot to do if I want to bother trying to get a mirror finish, but probably wont. This is a user plane and looks and works good enough as is..

Russ

[Roy Hahn]

Thanks for heads up Russ. I've been hesitant to use heavy sanding, but perhaps I shouldn't be. Yours looks good.

BTW Jim, that No.4 arrived in good order today... Thanks! That's my next project after the No.140.

[Dave Cavanaugh]

Unfortunately I don't think there is any chemical means of "brightening" up metal; you just need to remove the rust and then polish the metal some way. I tried the electrolytic method but found that citric acid worked just as well for me and was less trouble. I mix a saturated solution of citric acid and hot water and soak the plane and parts anywhere from an hour or so to overnight. You can get citric acid powder at a brewery supply store, or even use UNSWEETENED lemon or lime Kool Aid, a couple of packets to a bucket of water.

I have also had a couple of planes that were so far gone I went right past the citric acid and put them in the sandblaster. These were #4 and 5 planes that looked like they had been stored at the bottom of a well. After glass bead blasting I went over them with a wire wheel, which closed up the pores that blasting had opened up, and left a matte finish over all the iron; they actually looked pretty good. They would be OK users, but the soles and irons were pitted. I lapped them, and put them on the shelf to use as a loaner or get someone else started down the slope.

[Roy Hahn]

Thanks Dave, I would have never thought to use Kool Aid of all things. Will definitely give it a try.

[Russ Hauser]

Hey Jim & Roy:

There is quite a bit of pitting in the sides and bottom that don't show in the photos. wet/dry sand paper wasn't doing it until I ran the body on my 6 inch belt sander to get down to decent metal. I worked the body on wet/dry on a 3/8 inch thick piece of plate glass up thru 1500 grit. I wasn't necessarily going for a mirror finish, just wanted to see what it would take to reach that level of finish. The plane will be a user, and I don't want to be concerned about scratches.

Russ

[Russ Hauser]

Hey Jim & Roy:

There is quite a bit of pitting in the sides and bottom that don't show in the photos. wet/dry sand paper wasn't doing it until I ran the body on my 6 inch belt sander to get down to decent metal. I worked the body on wet/dry on a 3/8 inch thick piece of plate glass up thru 1500 grit. I wasn't necessarily going for a mirror finish, just wanted to see what it would take to reach that level of finish. The plane will be a user, and I don't want to be concerned about scratches.

Russ

http://sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/progress.gif

[Russ Hauser]

Hey Roy and Tim:

The sides and bottom were heavily pitted, so I resorted to the 6 inch belt sander to get down to decent iron. from there I used aluminum oxide sand paper up to 220 grit and wet/dry up to 1000 grit along with WD-40 for lubricant. There is still some pitting that doesn't show in the photos, but I'm leaving it as is for now.

Russ

[Jerry Booher]

Wow! Russ and Roy, those planes are absolutely beautiful. I have always used phosphoric acid to clean rusty parts, but sound metal is also dissolved. Pool acid (hydrochloric) is faster, but immediately begins rusting after removing from the acid. I am going to try the electrolytic rust removal after seeing these results.

Jerry

[Jeff Hallam]

Since someone mentioned painting I thought I would share a product that I used after going through electrolysis. It is a wanna-be-japanning product that I have found to work well. Pontypool Asphaltum it is called I believe.

http://www.libertyonthehudson.com/pontypool.html

[John Dykes]

I've recently acquired a 605 1/2 from Patrick where most of the japanning was gone - and what was left has rust under it. I like to keep my users polished because I take pride in my tools, but I've never worried much about paint \ japanning - till now...

I've seen that product and have been tempted, but many seem to think "engine enamel" spray paint looks good and protects better.... Have you done a comparison? I like the thought of "japanning" vs spray can enamel, but...

Very tempted...

- jbd

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for heads up Russ. I've been hesitant to use heavy sanding, but perhaps I shouldn't be. Yours looks good.

BTW Jim, that No.4 arrived in good order today... Thanks! That's my next project after the No.140.

I did not even associate the name with you. I know so many people with the same and similar names it always amazes me when I find out two people I know are related or such.

Hope it works real good for you, it shouldn't need too much rust removal.

I am down to three #4s now. Just bought a 5 1/2. Old habits die hard.

jim

[Billy Chambless]

I am down to three #4s now. Just bought a 5 1/2. Old habits die hard.



If you find yourself with too many 5 1/2s. let me know -- I can probably help. ;)

[Roy Hahn]

John,

Here is my 60-1/2 that I recently rehabbed. I'm not a big fan of black all the time so I went to milk chocolate brown on this one. Very happy with the way it turned out. All original parts using electrolytic bath wire brush.

[Russ Hauser]

Russ,
I would also like to know how you got the sides looking so good. I have a # 140 that's about to go through the same treatment, but the bottom and sides are very dark/black in some places.

I wish there was a technique in just brightening the surface areas without heavy sanding and polishing. Has anyone tried bleach?

Sorry Roy, I know of no other way of restoring rusted metal than derusting, sanding and polishing. I don't think bleach would work, but let us know the results if you try it.

Russ

[Michael Tessier]

Could you point me to a source of info on this technique?

Thanks & best regards,
Mike

[Michael Fross]

Could you point me to a source of info on this technique?

Here's a very interesting article concerning restoring a No 5.

http://www.theturnersshop.com/woodwork/no5/No5_1.html

I've not yet tried this, but I'm tempted to buy a plane in really bad condition just to try it. :)

Michael

[Russ Hauser]

Here's a very interesting article concerning restoring a No 5.

http://www.theturnersshop.com/woodwork/no5/No5_1.html

I've not yet tried this, but I'm tempted to buy a plane in really bad condition just to try it. :)

Michael

Mike:

All the research I did on Electrolytic Rust Removal indicated that stainless steel and copper should not be used as the anode. I suppose it's because some of the nickle in the stainless steel is released into the bath along with the copper. If you stick with plain steel, the bath will contain nothing that is harmful to the environment. I used 1/8 x 1 1/2 steel bar stock from Ace Hardware, wire from a metal hanger, with the protective coating sanded off to connect to the anode, and one tablespoon of Arm and Hammer Washing Soda per gallon of water. I also used my 2 or 6 amp 12 volt battery charger.

Russ

[Tom Veatch]

... suppose it's because some of the nickle in the stainless steel is released into the bath along with the copper. ...

I believe the main problem with using stainless is the chromium content of the stainless forming chromates in the bath which turns the water into hazardous/toxic waste per EPA regulation. Although I suspect (haven't run any numbers) that the exposure from a hobby shop operation would be far below limits applied to commercial/industrial operations.

Even if that is the case, probably best to avoid the use of stainless steel.

[Clint Jones]

John,

Here is my 60-1/2 that I recently rehabbed. I'm not a big fan of black all the time so I went to milk chocolate brown on this one. Very happy with the way it turned out. All original parts using electrolytic bath wire brush.


Oh man that plane looked fine how it was. What a shame .

[Jeff Hallam]

I would tend to agree that it's best to avoid any sacrificial pieces that would make your solution toxic, especially since the alternative (steel) is readily available. I have used pieces of rebar, and scrap angle iron with good success.

Here's a Tip: I often wanted to de-rust all of the small nuts and bolts from my hand planes but these are difficult to connect up in the electrolysis bath due to their size. My solution was to fold a piece of steel mesh into a tray. I put all the pieces in the tray and connect it for de-rusting. Works pretty good.

[Randal Stevenson]

Look at the costs of Stainless and copper!:eek:


How about those old bedframes that people can't hardly give away? Granted you would have to grind of some paint/powdercoating, but for the cost.....

[Wilbur Pan]

An old lawnmower blade makes a great sacrificial anode.

[Jim Koepke]

An old lawnmower blade makes a great sacrificial anode.

cutting up an old cookie sheet...

actually, the dog let me have his house all to myself.

he got the couch.

jim