Blum Inset Hinge Install Question

[Jeff Wright]

I am about to drill both the 35mm holes and mounting plate holes for Blum inset hinges (not face frame constuction, but euro type). My doors are 3/4 inches thick. I bought the Sommerfeld jig for drilling the 35mm hole and its accompanying 8mm holes for mounting the hinge. I also bought the Blum Inserta Drilling Gauge #65.0590. My question is how do you determine what setting to set the jigs to in order to end up with inset doors that are flush with the carcass' front edge? The placement of the mounting plate is what concerns me most. Do you set its setback to an equivalent set-back number to what you used with the 35mm hole jig? Is there a chart or thorough instructions available on the jig's use?

[David DeCristoforo]

Typically, you need to add 13/16" to the "normal" (overlay) setback for inset 3/4" doors. Most jigs are configured for an overlay but some will allow you to adjust the setback. If you log onto Blum's web site, they have full specs for all of their hardware in PDF format.

YM

[Jochen Schroecker]

Hello Jeff,
let me confuse you with some metric stuff...
37 mm normal setback + 20 mm setback for inset doors....
Clear?

Jochen

[Jeff Wright]

Hello Jeff,
let me confuse you with some metric stuff...
37 mm normal setback + 20 mm setback for inset doors....
Clear?

Jochen

Does that mean BOTH the 35mm hole jig AND the mounting plate jig should be set 57mm (37 + 20) back from the edge of the door and the edge of the cabinet side?

[Paul Girouard]

2 1/4" 37mm +19.5mm= 56.5mm or 2 3/16" or 2 1/4" your "adjustments screws" will take care of the little differences.

Watch the side gaps , most folks IMO try to make them to tight, I shoot of 1/8" of gap aways . I used aluminium bar stock as spacers to average / measure those gaps and "tweak" them as close to equal as possible.

I read on here folks measuring down to 32nds and wonder what world they live in , wood will not stay that stable in the average house to allow those tolerances , at least in my PNW world , YMMV.

Good luck Jeff. Post us some photos :cool:when your done.

[Paul Girouard]

Does that mean BOTH the 35mm hole jig AND the mounting plate jig should be set 57mm (37 + 20) back from the edge of the door and the edge of the cabinet side?



Ah no just the hinge mounting plate , the C/L on the hinge I can go check I keep a "test block" on hand to set up drill press up for that C/L measurement. Blum calls it out wierd IMO , from the edge of the bored hole to the door edge at about 3 to 5mm depending on the hinge.

The compact hinges use less set back the 3mm IIRC , I rarely use compact hinges they has adjustment issues . But in some cabinet re face jobs they are all that will work if concealed hings are chosen.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Hi Jeff

I hope that I understood your question correctly...anyway, please check it on some scrapes.

As far as I know, here in EU, we have 3 kinds of concealed hinges (I'm talking about Euro stile cabinets - no face frame)...

1. The full overlay hinge - the door edge will be flush with the cabinet edge. (note - no "knee")
84661


2. Half overlay - the door edge will reach to the center of the cabinet wall (we use it in case of 2 doors on one 3/4" wall) (note - "half knee")
84662


3. Inset - the door gets into the cabinet frame and will be flush with the cabinet frame (note - "full knee")
84663


For all the 3 kinds, I'm using the same drilling (positioning) jig... the change is made already on the hinge itself as you can see the difference in the "Knee" and the "Support"
84664


regards
niki

[Paul Girouard]

niki have you guys gone to clip hinges yet?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Dec29Sherman2.jpg

Clip full over lay with the stamped Face frame plates , they are awlful big but do have a little added adjustment over the cast plates.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Hi Paul

Don't take me as an example...as you noticed, I'm just an amateur and I don't like to spend too much money so, I'm using only the cheapest hinges in the market... not Blum ...(about 40 Cents each):o.

I use some of them already 7 years and, so far so good...no problems...

Same with the drawer slides, I use the cheapest and still no problem.

Regards
niki

[Jochen Schroecker]

Ah no just the hinge mounting plate , the C/L on the hinge I can go check I keep a "test block" on hand to set up drill press up for that C/L measurement. Blum calls it out wierd IMO , from the edge of the bored hole to the door edge at about 3 to 5mm depending on the hinge.

The compact hinges use less set back the 3mm IIRC , I rarely use compact hinges they has adjustment issues . But in some cabinet re face jobs they are all that will work if concealed hings are chosen.

Thank you Paul,
I always use 3mm, never had any problems. 4mm upwards some hinges "squeeze" the edge. And yes, clip on hinges are what is used mostly around here. My favorite brand is Blum, except for some 40mm Salice hinges when used on really thick doors.
Jochen

[Paul Girouard]

I took a few photo's of my box , similar to niki's , odd how things can be done similarly ,

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar2220081.jpg

So 7/8 weak / strong 13/16 th to center. I think why Blum uses the 3 to 5 mm from the edge is the Blum mini press machine is index that way. But for a guy like me boring with a drill press C/L of bore is easier to set up.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar222008.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar2220082.jpg

Clip hinge edge , no tools required , generally , to remove and or replace door on to hinge plate,

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar2220083.jpg


I stick mostly with Blum they have worked out a system that really works well. I have used a few Sclace hinges the 40mm type as they at the time where the only ones around IIRC. In my area PNW , 2 hours north of Seattle Blum is the easiest to pick up / find without mail ordering , so it's sort of habit / familiarity / ease of getting them.


There are some instances with Euro / concealed hinges are not the best choice , but I really like them and use them where / when ever I can . They are user friendly, I like that.

[Jeff Wright]

I bought my inset Blum hinges from Woodcraft which may be a mistake due to the fact that the packaging does not include the equivalent Blum model number which would allow me to find it in the Blum hinge manual. This would make it easier to determine the required set-backs which are shown in that manual.

I suspect that it will ultimately require me to test the hinge in scrap piece of wood for both the hinge and mounting plate to make sure I'll get the correct set back on the finish piece.

[Jeff Wright]

I made a mock up of the side of a carcass and stile and, using a #2 setting on the 35mm jig, drilled the hole. When I mounted the hinge plate to have the front of the door surface flush with the front edge of the carcass, there was inadequate space between the edge of the door stile and the carcass to allow the door to open. It looks like for inset doors, one would need a settiing that does not exist on the jig, something that brings the 35mm hole even closer to the edge of the still. One solution would be to cut the 35mm hole with the same #2 setting and then plane a 1/16 inch or so off the edge of that stile thereby pushing the door slightly away from the carcass side, hopefully enough to allow the door to swing open without hitting the carcass.

I have yet to find a jig for use in setting the hinge plate properly for when installing inset hinges. I have looked through the Blum PDF files without finding one to do the job. I made up my own for this job.

[Jim Becker]

Download the spec sheet for the hinges if you didn't get it from your supplier. The exact measurement is there. Do note that all the measurements are in mm, not fractional inches and you should measure as such for best results. I use a lot of the inset hinges and have had great results. I don't use any kind of purchased jig for the 35mm holes...just a setup board I made for the DP not unlike Paul's, but sized like a stile. For the carcass holes, I bought a positioning jig from Rockler. I subsequently made some more for my vanity projects where I needed to accommodate some shadow lines that required the jig to position the holes "deeper" from the front of the piece in some positions.

[Bill Neely]

Jeff, are you sure you've got the full cranked hinge used for inset doors?

Here's a spec sheet from Blum that shows the differences along with offsets.

[Jeff Wright]

Jeff, are you sure you've got the full cranked hinge used for inset doors?

Here's a spec sheet from Blum that shows the differences along with offsets.

Thanks Bill. Yes, I do have the inset hinge (Full Cranked Hinge type). Best I can tell, it requires a reveal of 3/16 inch to allow it to swing properly. At least that is what my mock up sample install indicates. I guess I could bevel the outside edge of my doors to create a bit more clearance when the door opens, but I don't like that look. When doing inset doors, I prefer a reveal closer to 1/16 inch or less. Looks like I may have to revert back to some version of a butt hinge, either mortise or non-mortise type.

[Jim Becker]

Jeff, the 120º insets I've been using work just fine with a pretty close gap on the hinge side...about 1/16"-3/32" or so on a few of them. But do remember to consider wood movement and the time of year you are making your project. 1/16" "today" might not be 1/16" in a few months, in either direction.

[Jeff Wright]

Jeff, the 120º insets I've been using work just fine with a pretty close gap on the hinge side...about 1/16"-3/32" or so on a few of them. But do remember to consider wood movement and the time of year you are making your project. 1/16" "today" might not be 1/16" in a few months, in either direction.

Thanks for your input Jim. Do the doors that have a 1/16 inch inset open and close without rubbing the stiles? Do you round over the hinge side of the doors to some degree?

[Jim Becker]

No roundover...I build pretty much square cornered "Shaker" influenced doors. The edges are "microscopically" eased with 220 sandpaper so the finish will stick, but otherwise, no issues. The action of the hinge "should" move the door over enough to pivot at the minimum opening in the specifications for the particular hinge you are using. There is a minimum and below that you might have issues.

[Mike Sandman]

I lurk around without posting much, but these kinds of strings re immensely helpful, and I have to install three sets of double doors next weekend. Thanks to you all.

Mike Sandman