PDA

View Full Version : Older Oneida DC: upgrade or sell?



David Klotz
03-22-2008, 7:54 AM
Folks -

I have just acquired (free, inherited) an early edition Oneida dust collection system in excellent working condition (light hobbyist use only): 1.5hp Leeson motor, wired for 220v, 35 gallon drum. This system is quite away from state of the art. The cyclone has no neutral vane and no air ramp. I'm not sure how big the impeller is.

The filter is internal: the equivalent of a paper shop vac filter on steroids sits threaded over an outlet pipe in the middle of the cyclone, and exhaust air is drawn through the filter media. There is not a lot of filter area. The filter is a hassle to service. See attached photo. (That's the internal filter removed for the photo. The other piece is a silencer pipe.)

I need to decide whether to upgrade. The rest of my dust collection extraction system includes: 1) Jet air handler/fileter mounted to the ceiling; and 2) Ridgid shop vac hooked up to a Clearvue cyclone (similar to an Oneida Dust Deputy set up). I have a full complement of tools to service: table saw, 6" jointer, lunch box planer, router table, 14" band saw, miter saw, drill press, 6x48 belt sander, multiple ROS sanders.

I have done extensive reading on Bill Pentz's site, and understand that this system doesn't meet his minimum criteria for fine dust collection. However, for now, it will have to do, either as is, or with cost worthy upgrades. Here are the upgrade options, as I see them:

1) Oneida Air Systems has a cartridge filter retrofit kit for what seems to be the fairly steep price of $288.00. For that, you get a 100 sq.foot spun bond filter (I don't know the efficiency, yet, Oneida was closed on Good Friday); transition pipes (but no outlet side air box to slow the air column down to reduce turbulence before it hits the filter); and a clean out box that clamps to the bottom of the filter. I think this is overpriced.

2) I also talked at length to Rick Wynn at Wynn Env. Services (www.wynnenv.com (http://www.wynnenv.com)) (I have no affiliation weith Oneida or Wynn), and he was very generous with his time for such a piddling little inquiry. He suggested a high efficientcy Torit-style spun bond filter (probably similar to what Oneida is selling); which will cost arouns $130-150, then build my own air box and a clean out box out of plywood.

3) Upgrade the cyclone by replacing it with a new one. I have not researched this much at all, because I think I am probably underpowered for a proper DC system at 1.5hp/220. I think i would be better off just crying once and getting a proper, and much more powerful system.

If upgrading won't demonstrably improve the performance of this system, I'll use it as is for now, and buy a newer, more powerful one when $$ are in place, and sell this one on CL.

I am inclined to buy a filter from Wynn, and fabricate my own air box and clean out. I would appreciate any Creeker input on which alternative makes the most sense, or any suggestions if I have missed something.

Thanks-David

Mike Cutler
03-22-2008, 8:29 AM
David

You have the basic components required to build a nice DC system. Yes, they may not be state of the art, or the newest design, but they will move dust particles efficiently within their design.
The proof is in the pudding so to speak, Set the system up, and see how it performs. Add the Wynn cartridges and build the rest your self. I can't see you losing any money that you invest on this, at least on a small scale, should you elect to sell what you have. The Leeson motor is worth the cost of the Wynn filter.

As for meeting Bill's minimum criteria. It comes down to the individual, and their own unique setup. There is a cost benefit relationship.
I say try it out as is, and make your decision from there. It's still a better system than my Jet DC-1100.
I think you'll be pleasently surprised at how much air that impeller moves, based on what I estimate it's diameter to be.

David Klotz
03-22-2008, 9:21 AM
Thanks alot, Mike. That's pretty encouraging. I inherited the system from my Dad, along with a PM66 that I am renovating (chronicled in another thread). I have seen the system in action, and it does seem to move alot of air.

I guess my major concern is that the cyclone is of an early enough design that its overall efficiency has been eclipsed by newer models.

Could someone explain to me the real world benefit of having this motor wired for 220v, instead of 110v? It's 3450 rpm either way, I think. Do you get higher torque, e.g., better performance under load, with the higher voltage?

Finally, attached is a picture of the "tree" Dad built for this. All biscuits. Not a screw in it, other than the floor. Sweet, except for the fact that I can't get it down the stairs to the basement. Gonna have to cut her down.

Jim Becker
03-22-2008, 10:26 AM
Free is a nice price and that leaves you with a reasonably inexpensive retrofit to upgrade performance...external filters and yes, you can put a neutral vane in the inlet. I did both of those things with my original Oneida 1.5hp system that is still running in another SMC member's shop. Will it perform as well as the current crop of 2-3hp systems? No, but those two upgrades will make it work acceptably well in a small shop situation. That particular unit is optimized for 5" duct, so after a few feet of 6" off the inlet, drop to 5" from there out. (Yes, you'll have to use metal duct for that...plastic isn't available in 5")

David Klotz
03-22-2008, 12:11 PM
Thanks, Jim. I notice that both you and Mike referenced "filterS" as opposed to the singular filter. The retrofit kit from Oneida, and the recommended filter from wynn Env. are both just one filter: 12.75" x 26" (100 sq. feet). That is substantially larger than what the unit came with. My plan was to completely remove the inner filter, then, off the outlet, run in the following order: factory transition piece (rectangular to 6" round); factory silencer; fabricated airbox; filter; fabricated cleanout.

Are you concerned that I am underfiltered here? I thought a 100sq. foot cartridge would be plenty.

Thanks again for your input.

Regards- David

p.s. Jim, your shop looks awesome.

Jim Becker
03-22-2008, 1:18 PM
I did use two stacked filters when I retrofitted that unit back in about 2002 with good results. (there was no factory retro available then)

Rick Potter
03-23-2008, 2:44 AM
David,

I had this cyclone, prior to my selling the house to my daughter and son in law. He is still using it.

I had this unit hooked to the table saw, 15" planer, router table, shaper, and jointer. It worked just fine, but it was very noisy. I removed the filter, as it was a pain to change, and ducted outside (SoCal), and it was just as noisy.

I think you will be very happy with it if you install an external filter.

Rick Potter

Mike Cutler
03-23-2008, 8:28 AM
Could someone explain to me the real world benefit of having this motor wired for 220v, instead of 110v? It's 3450 rpm either way, I think. Do you get higher torque, e.g., better performance under load, with the higher voltage?

The short answer is that there is none, at least that you will be able to quantify.

In a theoretical application the conductors will run at a cooler temperature on 220 based on the current flow and natural impedance offered by the individual conductors. There are more individual variable associated with this, but this is the primary variable in the equation. Throw in some wire nuts, screwed terminals, duplex receptacle connection, and the heat dissipation characteristics of the individual conductor become a non-factor when summed with the others.

The most compelling reason to change to 220 is for standardization of mobile machines in a hobbiest enviroment.
Put it on it's own 115 circuit, if you possibly can, and you'll be fine.

As for the filter, versus filters. I would go with what ever Onieda, and or, Wynn spec's. They're the experts.

Jim Becker
03-23-2008, 8:44 AM
I did run mine on 240v simply because I standardized on that voltage for all my stationary equipment. The same circuit is used now for the larger, 2hp Commercial that is in my shop. I believe that Fred is running my old one on 240v in his shop.