Question on Vectoring and Corel

[Bryan Cowan]

We're doing some time studies with a FiberMark 20W system. I am trying to vector cut an image onto our products. The entire image, when everything is selected, has 254 objects.

When I'm only trying to vector cut one product, it takes approximately 20 seconds. When I line up 9 products in a row, it takes approximately 33 minutes. This is because the laser will vector 1 object on each of the 9 products one at a time. So in essence, the laser head will be traveling left-to-right-to-left 254 times. One complete pass is approximately 8 seconds. (8 sec * 254 = 2032 sec = 33.86 min)

Is there any way to set up the graphic in Corel to have the laser do one product at a time (all 254 objects) instead of one object at a time (9 products = 2286 total objects)?

I hope this isn't confusing, but if it is, let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

After changing the line thickness of the image, I rastered all 9 products in 16 minutes. However, rastering ONE product takes 1 minute 34 seconds. While vectoring ONE product takes 20 seconds.

Any ideas?

[Hilton Lister]

What happens if you group or even combine each image?

[Bryan Cowan]

What happens if you group or even combine each image?

Unfortunately you replied 6 minutes after I called it a day :D

We'll have to try that when we get back to the office on Monday.

But even when we vector one image, it's very jumpy (skips around here and there to make the mark). It's not very efficient, but I've only had it a couple days. I hope we can change a few things and get it running the way we'd like.

[James Stokes]

If you take your image and combine everything then duplicate the object as a whole it will laser in order of duplication.

[Bryan Cowan]

Ok, so I should combine at 254 objects into 1 object with a line size of .001 for vectoring, correct? The laser shouldn't have a problem with that?

[Bruce Volden]

Bryan

Is/was the vector file created in Corel. I ask this because occasionally when vector ready art work is imported into "draw" from another file type the NODES are not always connected and you may be experiencing this effect. A quick zoom in on the file and looking @ the nodes would show this. If this is the case (hopefully) just join the nodes- clear as mud :confused:

Bruce

[Bryan Cowan]

Bryan

Is/was the vector file created in Corel. I ask this because occasionally when vector ready art work is imported into "draw" from another file type the NODES are not always connected and you may be experiencing this effect. A quick zoom in on the file and looking @ the nodes would show this. If this is the case (hopefully) just join the nodes- clear as mud :confused:

Bruce

Bruce,

It was created in Pro/E CAD Software, exported as a DWG file and imported in Corel. All the nodes appear to be fine, but I'm only basing that off of the final image on the product. All the lines are connected.

[Mike Mackenzie]

Bryan,

Can't you run the system directly from CAD?

[Bryan Cowan]

Bryan,

Can't you run the system directly from CAD?

I'm not sure if we could or not. Even if it was possible, we wouldn't be able to do to software licensing. The computer with Pro/E is no where near the laser setup.

[Mike Mackenzie]

You may be able to send it through to a network printer (Laser Cutter)

[Joe Hayes]

Bruce - Bryon is right on track with his response. If it was created in Cad it has a bunch of nodes that Corel will see and run in a weird order. I do not know why this happens but I did a bunch of cutting for a group of college kids who were in Senior Design for Architects. I had the same problem. All of their
files were produced by CAD drawings the laser ran all over the place cutting here and there. Since I do not work in CAD I had no idea why. One of the young men found a work around for it in CAD and passed the word on to the others, somehow they got it figured out and corrected the problem and the rest of the files worked fine. This has been my only experience with this issue and hopefull what I learned can get you on the right track to fix your problem.

I cannot be much help with your file only to tell you that the problem lies within how it was created. Your solution would be to get someone to fix it within the CAD file.

[Ryan O'Hara]

I have been importing a number of files from solidworks using the autocad .dxf format. Another thread suggested using the "smart fill" tool. After using the tool delete the orginal curves. You will also need to remove the automatic fill that is created. I have found this really helps with importing "outside" file formats.

[Bryan Cowan]

You may be able to send it through to a network printer (Laser Cutter)

Also no network connection where the laser is :cool:

[Bryan Cowan]

Bruce - Bryon is right on track with his response. If it was created in Cad it has a bunch of nodes that Corel will see and run in a weird order. I do not know why this happens but I did a bunch of cutting for a group of college kids who were in Senior Design for Architects. I had the same problem. All of their
files were produced by CAD drawings the laser ran all over the place cutting here and there. Since I do not work in CAD I had no idea why. One of the young men found a work around for it in CAD and passed the word on to the others, somehow they got it figured out and corrected the problem and the rest of the files worked fine. This has been my only experience with this issue and hopefull what I learned can get you on the right track to fix your problem.

I cannot be much help with your file only to tell you that the problem lies within how it was created. Your solution would be to get someone to fix it within the CAD file.

I will try that as well as making the entire image one object.

It will raster fine, but it is considerably longer to do so. I don't see the point in rastering when the image itself is an outline.

[Bryan Cowan]

I have been importing a number of files from solidworks using the autocad .dxf format. Another thread suggested using the "smart fill" tool. After using the tool delete the orginal curves. You will also need to remove the automatic fill that is created. I have found this really helps with importing "outside" file formats.

Another item I will try. Thanks

[Rodne Gold]

In cad, the item should be converted to a closed polyline. However even that is somewhat fraught with problems as some cad systems dont handle bezier curves well and the item might still import into Corel wrong.
So here's the solution and it's not all good news. Import the item , group it and lock it and use it as an underlay to recreate it in corel. IE trace over it with closed curves
Only solution that will work 100% if smartfill doesn't.

[James Stokes]

I have done a lot of experimenting with autocad files recently. Here is what I have found to work, before exporting from autocad I run overkill to remove any duplicate objects, then I go in and change all lines to joined polylines. I will then save as a 2002 version of autocad. I can then import in to Corel, all lines will be joined. Once I get the file in Corel I may have to arrange the order in object manager. I then group everything and duplicate as needed. By doing this all of the autocad files have run perfectly.

[Martin Reynolds]

Sounds to me like you are not vector engraving at all. In vector engraving, the laser will follow the lines. In raster engraving, it will make multiple horizontal passes and throw down dots to makelines. I am also unsure as to whether or not your laser can do vector anything.

So my advice is check the manuals and driver settings.

[Bryan Cowan]

Sounds to me like you are not vector engraving at all. In vector engraving, the laser will follow the lines. In raster engraving, it will make multiple horizontal passes and throw down dots to makelines. I am also unsure as to whether or not your laser can do vector anything.

So my advice is check the manuals and driver settings.

Well, thats exactly what's happening. When vectoring it follows each line. When rastering, it reminds me of an inkjet printer.

The problem isn't with the laser itself, its with the image and how I can manipulate it so the laser doesn't jump everywhere when vectoring.

[Martin Reynolds]

It sounds to me like you are raster cutting your image, not vector cutting it. In raster cutting, the laser will traverse lines across the complete width of the cut, and spit out dots where needed.

In vector cutting, it will follow the lines of the image and drop dots in line.

So when your laser does a single part, does it follow the lines, or does it scan the area?

If it is scanning, that's usually because you have a color match problem, or the lines are wider than a hair.

[Richard Rumancik]

Martin, he has 254 objects, so they are vector bits. The problem with importing dwg or dxf files is that they will be plotted in the order of that the entities are saved/created in the AutoCad dwg or dxf file. Which means it will plot a radius here, a line there, another radius there, a circle in the corner, jumping all over the place. It will be very inefficient. If you have ever seen an old pen plotter work they didn't try to optimise the plot order. The pen would hop all over the paper. That seems to be what his laser is doing and is common with an imported dxf or dwg file.

Some people convert to polylines before exporting the file but I usually combine lines, radii, hole patterns etc in CorelDraw into logical entities. I would group several objects (which plots as one local pattern), then duplicate this group if multiples are needed.

If you duplicate BEFORE grouping it will plot one circle in each pattern, then come back and plot one line in each pattern, then one radius in each pattern, etc. This is what Bruce saw. There will be lots of motion and very little cutting happening.

[Bryan Cowan]

Martin, he has 254 objects, so they are vector bits. The problem with importing dwg or dxf files is that they will be plotted in the order of that the entities are saved/created in the AutoCad dwg or dxf file. Which means it will plot a radius here, a line there, another radius there, a circle in the corner, jumping all over the place. It will be very inefficient. If you have ever seen an old pen plotter work they didn't try to optimise the plot order. The pen would hop all over the paper. That seems to be what his laser is doing and is common with an imported dxf or dwg file.

Some people convert to polylines before exporting the file but I usually combine lines, radii, hole patterns etc in CorelDraw into logical entities. I would group several objects (which plots as one local pattern), then duplicate this group if multiples are needed.

If you duplicate BEFORE grouping it will plot one circle in each pattern, then come back and plot one line in each pattern, then one radius in each pattern, etc. This is what Bruce saw. There will be lots of motion and very little cutting happening.

Bingo.

Tomorrow, I will try a few items everyone has suggested here to see if I can correct the issue. I'd hate to have to go back through CAD and re-layout the logos.

Thanks everyone :)

[Richard Rumancik]

Bryan: Sorry about that - I meant to say Bryan not Bruce.

You should be able to fix it in CorelDraw; shouldn't have to go back to ProE.

[Bryan Cowan]

Great news! When I got in this morning, I took the image, used the smart fill tool, deleted the original lines and curves, increased the pen line to .001, removed the fill color, went back through the image and changed the object orders (to front of page sequentially), and combined all objects.

Now, the laser takes each individual logo and vectors it one product at a time instead of a line here and a line there. It knocked down the time from 33 minutes per 9 parts, to 1 minute and 52 seconds :)

Talk about a great start to a Monday morning :)

Thanks everyone!
Bryan

[Roy Brewer]

Is there any way to set up the graphic in Corel to have the laser do one product at a time (all 254 objects) instead of one object at a time (9 products = 2286 total objects)?Bryan,

As suggested, Combining would force the laser to engrave one product before moving to the next; if that works it would probaby be the simplest solution. However, sometimes that will yield undesireable results; e.g., if you have overlapping filled objects.

It would be a little more work, but you could also colormap your products, put them in different layers and various other techniques to get them to engrave in the most efficient manner.