well there goes the shop

[nick brigg]

had a friendly visit from the police this afternoon basically saying im too noisy and that i cant really use my power tools for as long as i have been anymore. so i can now either, give it up, move to a rural area, sell my power tools and go all hand tools...

[Dave Westover]

Your tax dollars at work! Can you try to insulate? Cheaper than moving Id think.

[Brian Effinger]

That's BS! As long as you're not running the machines at midnight, you shouldn't have to shut things down. It sounds to me that one of your neighbors doesn't like you and used this as an excuse to cause problems.

[nick brigg]

That's BS! As long as you're not running the machines at midnight, you shouldn't have to shut things down. It sounds to me that one of your neighbors doesn't like you and used this as an excuse to cause problems.

that was exactly it. we've been having problems with our immediate neighbors for years. they call city inspectors to check with whenever someone in the area is doing some renovation. frankly im ready to move to a farm and rent out this house to tenants.

[John Keeton]

I'd look for a tenant with 8 kids, 6 dogs, 4 cats and a Vietnemese pig!! Make the neighbors beg you to come back!

[Jim Becker]

I think before you jump the gun, you should find out what the actual local ordinances are...if there are any...and see if your woodworking activities are either within them or can be adapted to them. It would usually be reasonable to expect someone to knock off such activities after a certain time at night and not be engaged in the noisy activity prior to a certain time in the morning, but I cannot imagine there is any kind of blanket prohibition on "noise" that is reasonable...your lawn would never get mowed if there was. Things may be touchier, however, if you are in an MDU...rather than a single home with physical separation from your neighbors.

[Sean Troy]

had a friendly visit from the police this afternoon basically saying im too noisy and that i cant really use my power tools for as long as i have been anymore. so i can now either, give it up, move to a rural area, sell my power tools and go all hand tools...

There are laws protecting you. Check out your local codes and throw a restraining order at your neighbors. Thats the problem in this country now a days, to many people bowing down to so few. Stand up for your rights !http://sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Eric Larsen]

If you live in an HOA, give the management company a call. I've heard of HOA managers showing up with decibelometers and measuring the noise. If it falls within X tolerance, you're good to go, and your neighbor can pound sand.

Also, if your shop is in the garage, head to the Big Box. You can buy garage door insulating panels for next to nothing. I installed them in my garage (I need them and an evaporative cooler in the desert). In addition to dropping my shop temperature by 30f in the summer, it made a big difference to what could be heard outside -- 1/2" of styrofoam is a good acoustic insulator.

Sorry you live next to the neighborhood sorehead, BTW.

[nick brigg]

they're old cranky retired italians, the police were very friendly and understanding of my situation, they explained that if i made noise here and there, then its no problem, but as i was doing it, it was borderline commercial. they said they could hear my dust collector clearly(garage door closed). i doubt there is anything i can do, if there was they would have told me. im pretty upset as you can imagine.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I think you need to get some clarification on what is too much noise, including decibels (is there a noise ordinance there?) How much on versus off time and between what hours? Check with the police department, selectman/city hall, and pehaps consult an attorney especially if you find a lack of details ordinances. If your neighbors want to play games then find out the rules and play.

[fRED mCnEILL]

My question is "what" is loud, or quiet for that matter. How would it be determined that your shop is too loud. Just because the police didn't give you any options doesn't mean there aren't any.

I would go to city hall and find out what the ACTUAL regulations are. Then find out how much noise you are making. That is a starting point to find out how much you have to reduce.

How does your noise level compare to an air conditioner and how would the police compare your dust collector with that of an airconditioner.They are unqualified to make that determination.

The police are simply responding to a complaint. Unless they KNOW what the noise level is and are able to measure your noise level it is all subjective.

It is possible to reduce the noise coming out of a building to zero. Surely you can reduce it to an acceptable level using foam insuation. Its realtively cheap.

And as far a the cops saying its borderline commercial thats a load of BS. They would have a hrad time proving hobby woodworking is commercial.

Don't let them tread on you.

On the other hand if you want to move to a farm I highly reccomend that.We have 10 acres and don't worry about noise, animals etc. Its GREAT.

Fred Mc

[John Shuk]

I would think that in the noise ordinance there would be something listing a decibel level. As far as I know the db level must be taken at the source of the complaint not at the source of the noise.
The police are not code enforcement officers. I doubt that they are trained in the zoning laws in your town. It is inappropriate for them to tell you that your usage violates commercial vs. residential zoning law.
I would not accept this as a reason to shut my shop down and I don't think you should either.

[Ron Dunn]

Keeping the neighbours happy is, to me, far more important than a hobby.

People are entitled to peace and quiet in their homes. You have the right to have a hobby, but with that right comes the obligation to ensure that your hobby doesn't interfere with your neighbours' peaceful enjoyment of their time at home.

When I set up my current workshop I consulted with each of my neighbours. We reached an agreement that I would only use noisy power tools (ie, table saw, jointer thicknesser, routers) between the hours of mid-day and 3pm on any day. Further, if they were planning an outdoor function, they'd let me know and I'd avoid machinery during that time.

In fact, since making that agreement, I probably only do 2-3 hours of machine work per week. Everyone is perfectly happy.

Don't be a neighbourhood pest. Or don't be surprised if the neighbours get ugly.

[Kim Dressler]

Around here the noise ordinance is midnight. Nothing loud after that time. I would just love to know how something you do as a hobby and is theraputic can be considered commercial. I hope you get it figured out.

[nick brigg]

Keeping the neighbours happy is, to me, far more important than a hobby.

People are entitled to peace and quiet in their homes. You have the right to have a hobby, but with that right comes the obligation to ensure that your hobby doesn't interfere with your neighbours' peaceful enjoyment of their time at home.

When I set up my current workshop I consulted with each of my neighbours. We reached an agreement that I would only use noisy power tools (ie, table saw, jointer thicknesser, routers) between the hours of mid-day and 3pm on any day. Further, if they were planning an outdoor function, they'd let me know and I'd avoid machinery during that time.

In fact, since making that agreement, I probably only do 2-3 hours of machine work per week. Everyone is perfectly happy.

Don't be a neighbourhood pest. Or don't be surprised if the neighbours get ugly.

theres no reasoning with these people, they had the city threaten us with fines because we placed a rubbermaid shed too close to our fence.

[Don Bullock]

As others have said, check the actual wording of the law. It may even be online for you to read. Since my wife and I own dogs we are very familiar with noise regulations in our community. These ordinances are spelled out fairly clearly here. Hopefully they are where you live. BTW - Moving to the country doesn't always solve the problem. Noise ordinances are usually "county wide" and people in the country may complain even more if you disturb their peace and quiet.

[Brandon Shew]

I hope that your city code isn't as vague as mine:

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to create, or allow to be created any unreasonably loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise in the city or any noise of such character, intensity and duration as to be detrimental to the life or health of persons of reasonable sensitivity or to disturb or annoy the quiet, comfort or repose of reasonable persons. The following acts, among others, are declared to be loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise in violation of this section, but such enumeration shall not be deemed to be exclusive:

(1) The playing of any television set, radio, tape player, phonograph or any musical instrument in such a manner or with such volume as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of reasonable persons.

(2) The keeping of any animal which, by causing frequent or long-continued noise, shall disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of the neighborhood to such an extent as to constitute a nuisance.

No mention of decibels anywhere so it's wide open to interpretation.

I would first start by going to your neighbors and communicating with them. See if you can work something out that is acceptable to you and them as to the time and duration of the "noise." Invest in some insulation as others have said to help (and let them know that you have done that). Make them something in your shop and try to be as reasonable as possible.

If all else fails, then wear them out. Push the boundaries of what is legal in zoning, walk around in your underwear outside, get some obnoxious lawn ornaments, do what it takes to make them move.

[Doug Shepard]

Noise ordinances around here kick in between 10PM and I think either 7 or 8AM. Do what you can to do some soundproofing but dont let the neighborhood pest ride roughshod on you. My brother had to put up with a next door neighbor who is an elected official in a neighboring community and figures she has some sort of clout over her entire neighborhood. She's called the cops so many times on so many neighbors that the cops pretty much ignore her if possible. She got annoyed with friends of my brother, SIL, and 2 teenage sons coming and going and called the cops to report that my brother was dealing drugs out of the house. Then she decided she didnt like the appearance of my brother's new privacy fence (good side towards her yard BTW). and cut all the wire retainers that held it to the old cyclone fence. First stiff wind blew them all over. At some point the cops almost begged my brother to sue her for damages and harassment. That's what it finally took to shut her off.

[glenn bradley]

I would really look into what is courtesy and what is the law. Speaking as an ex-rock and roller, I have had more than my fair share of dealing with what is illegal and what is just sour grapes from neighbors when it comes to noise. I think you may find that YOU have a right to the pursuit of happiness as well as your neighbors. If you put out a reasonable effort to control and schedule the noise and it is within the law . . . tough beans for them.

If you lose this one battle, I would become real particular about my lawn. Mow it every day at about dinner time. Don't forget to weed-eat and run the yard blower too. They certainly can't complain that you are trying to keep your yard attractive. I say this mostly in jest as you really don't want to start a war with the neighbors but if they are the only common denominator to many neighborhood complaints . . . well?

P.s. I'm an early riser and most folks aren't. On the weekends, as soon as I hear the first lawnmower in the neighborhood, it's game-on.

[Lee Koepke]

I hope that your city code isn't as vague as mine:

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to create, or allow to be created any unreasonably loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise in the city or any noise of such character, intensity and duration as to be detrimental to the life or health of persons of reasonable sensitivity or to disturb or annoy the quiet, comfort or repose of reasonable persons. The following acts, among others, are declared to be loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise in violation of this section, but such enumeration shall not be deemed to be exclusive:

(1) The playing of any television set, radio, tape player, phonograph or any musical instrument in such a manner or with such volume as to annoy or disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of reasonable persons.

(2) The keeping of any animal which, by causing frequent or long-continued noise, shall disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of the neighborhood to such an extent as to constitute a nuisance.

No mention of decibels anywhere so it's wide open to interpretation.

I would first start by going to your neighbors and communicating with them. See if you can work something out that is acceptable to you and them as to the time and duration of the "noise." Invest in some insulation as others have said to help (and let them know that you have done that). Make them something in your shop and try to be as reasonable as possible.

If all else fails, then wear them out. Push the boundaries of what is legal in zoning, walk around in your underwear outside, get some obnoxious lawn ornaments, do what it takes to make them move.
there is usually some 'qualification' that goes along with it. there would be guidelines or rules that are defined in the enforcement stage, not necessarily in the codes. the City Attorney has at one time defined these limits. Codes that vague are virtually unenforceable.

The OPs neighbors sound unreasonable, so he will always be in a difficult situation.

[Brian Kent]

Nick, you probably have several other good neighbors. They can give some honest input about what hours are fine with them and what is an interruption. Mine say that 7AM to 10PM is fine, but I wait until after 8:15 AM.

You can work out a good time frame with the reasonable neighbors and use other hours for quiet procedures.

Sound insulation techniques are wonderful. I am also a drummer and have gone to extensive, but reasonable, lengths to insulate my garage in the past. Some inexpensive materials can really help.

I agree with everybody about checking the local laws and decibel levels. A radio shack digital decibel meter can be a fine tool for both legal protection and making sure that you are a good neighbor, no matter what one neighbor says.

I'll bet if you post some shop pictures or names of tools and construction of your shop that we could not only work on solutions with you but also grow in our own ideas for sound control through your experience.

If your neighbors are pests, that is discouraging, but the friendly neighborhood police and everyone else including you will know you are doing everything right.

[Craig D Peltier]

I work after 9 am and done by 5-530. When running planer I close garage door.
Good idea on foam.
I know a guy not far from here that city gave him heat and he had to close shop. They did use a decibel meter. He sold me a bunch of his tools.

I would like to see how thye could define ahobbyist verse commercial out of a garage. What kind of production could you do unless you were making small crafts that kept saws on all day.
I think If I was ever presented with same thing , I was doing home imporvements or making pieces for family and myself. Nothing wrong with that. My wife is rich I dont work..... okay i wished the last part

[Brian Effinger]

they're old cranky retired italians, the police were very friendly and understanding of my situation, they explained that if i made noise here and there, then its no problem, but as i was doing it, it was borderline commercial. they said they could hear my dust collector clearly(garage door closed). i doubt there is anything i can do, if there was they would have told me. im pretty upset as you can imagine.
Yup, I knew it - old people with nothing better to do. I'd definetely do what Jim suggested and check the local codes & ordinances. Your building inspector or court should be able to help you out. Get a printed copy so the next time the fuzz show up, whip it out - the code, not something else :eek::D:eek: - and let the officers know that you educated yourself. Maybe also nicely suggest they go have a talk with your neighbors and maybe they can explain to those crotchety people that you are not breaking the law. Of course if they stop complaining about your shop noise, they'll probably just find something else to complain about. Just think of this - they'll be gone sooner than you :D

[Peter Quinn]

When I lived in Portland OR in my mid 20's we had a cranky old neighbor who like to mow/trim his lawn at 6:30AM 3X/week (grass grows quickly there). We never complained. One day the police came to our house on a noise complaint, we played in a band, rode motorcycles that we tuned in the garage, and built the occasional cabinet, all with respect for our neighbors and during ordinance hours.

Captain cranky had been calling in complaints apparently for weeks but the police didn't come to the door until they actually heard noise. They politely asked us to keep it down a little. We checked with other neighbors, none of whom had a problem with the volume, just lawn mower man.

Next complaint that was called in my roommate called the city, who sent out an inspector with a decibel meter and took readings form the neighbors yard. He told us "Run the saw, rev the bikes, crank up the guitar, lets take some readings" The loudest reading was 1.5 decibels below the 90 DB limit! The inspector filed a report with the police, who told lawn mower man to stop calling. It pretty much put an end to the real nuisance in the neighborhood.

Don't know what your local rules are but it wouldn't hurt to find out. If you are actually doing commercial work in a resedential neighborhood you will normally be held to much stricter standards than an avid hobbiest. I believe in trying to keep accord with my neighbors and like to think if my work got too noisy they would ring the bell or call me first, not the police. The police usually show up just to keep the peace between neighbors when they get a call but they aren't really the final authority in most cases. Remember, your neighbor could always move out to the country too!

[Steven DeMars]

that was exactly it. we've been having problems with our immediate neighbors for years. they call city inspectors to check with whenever someone in the area is doing some renovation. frankly im ready to move to a farm and rent out this house to tenants.


Bad, Really Bad Tenants . . .

[nick brigg]

Just think of this - they'll be gone sooner than you :D

as mean or whatever it is to think that.....it's true :D

[Rob Damon]

The county I live in has a noise ordinance that basically says that any person 50' away from the sound source that is bothered by the sound can file a complaint. There is no time limit during the day.

When I inheritied and moved into my parents home almost two years ago, I had a construction size dumpster put at the rear of the property to save the hundreds of trips to the county dump, while I was clearing out 35 years of stuff that had collected on the property. The One "old busy body" neighbor called code enforcement. I got a call from the county that said property zoned residential could not have dumpsters on them. I asked her why the property up the street had one and she replied that they had a building permit.

Once you pull a building permit you can have a dumpster.

Sooooooo, I hired a contractor the next day and had him start the permit process. I called the county back and asked if it was ok to get a construction dumpster, since I now had a formal contract to have work done and they said "sure".

I then told a few of the neighbors that I knew had regular conversations with this "old busy body" that if he had just come to me and talked about it, I would have told him I just needed the dumpster on the property for another 30 days and it would gone forever. But since he didn't have the common courtesy to come and talk to me about it face to face, that if I heard one more complaint from the county about anything from him, I was going to be doing construction continuously for the next ten years and I was going to ask the dumpster rental folks to bring me the uglyest/nastiest looking dumpster they had.

Plus I told the neighbors that if anyone complained about the noise during normal daylight hours, I would turn my work shop into a meeting place for the hara-krishnas!


Stange, I haven't had any more complaints or calls from the county.....

Rob

[Peter Pezaris]

Some well placed insulation could do wonders for your noise output. Depending on how much extra space you have, you could make your shop nearly silent with enough layers of hanging rugs, insulation, air pockets, drywall, interior walls, etc.

[Noah Vig]

double post by accident

[Noah Vig]

A number of pd's have decibel meters to use when it comes down to a problem of someone filing complaints against others, generally it is used for businesses.

I would do what you can to keep the noise down by insulating your garage, etc... as much as possible and then keep wood working during reasonable hours.

Call the police department or city hall and find out what your city code/policy is for this. If they have a meter, ask them to come out, turn on your tools and find out how much noise you are actually making.

Realistically, this is part of the price/hassle of living in a residential area and noise complaints are routine. Generally all that is done unless there is a history of complaints is the person is asked to keep the noise down.

If your cited and feel it is not fair, take it to court and see what the judge has to say.

[Steve Roxberg]

A funny but true story that will confirm that you need to understand the exact wording of the law.

A neighbor, much like yours, who would yell at my kids for smelling their flowers would report you if your trash was placed on the curb more the 12 hours before pickup. Well, I mowed on Sundays and left the grass clippings on the curb, heavens. Guess what the trash wasn't picked up until Monday afternoon so I received a citiation, luckily just a warning.

I checked the law and I couldn't place them on the curb, but they had no problem with them being in my front yard as long as they didn't create a mess. After one week of having my lawn clippings, and all of my trash cans sitting on the property line in the front yard her husband approached me.

We came to a mutual agreement that I could place my trash on the curb whenever I wanted to, and I in return promised not to store my trash in my front yard every single day of the week.

Better yet, I lived in a side split so the cans were sitting at the top of a wall and for all intensive purposes appeared to actually be in her front yard.

I guarantee that the fact that the officer can "hear" your dust collector doesn't mean a thing.

Good luck, bad neighbors are no fun.

[Dave MacArthur]

I am actually pretty surprised by the adversarial attitude displayed in many of the posts, and the automatic assumption that the noisemaker is right (Nick), and the complaining neighbors are wrong. I am not saying he is wrong, but this attitude of "Hang the whistleblower!" surprises me.

Absolutely other people have a right to enjoy peace and quiet in their house and yard--our noisy hobby in no way trumps the right of folks to enjoy reasonable quietude. What is reasonable? Well, this noise is a common complaint and every jurisdiction has procedures to resolve it. If there is a defined ordnance stating decibels allowed and disallowed at some location/distance during specified times, then it is just 100% cut and dried as pertains to the noise ordnance--stop complaining, look it up, get the decibel tester, and you're either RIGHT or WRONG. If you're wrong, then you're wrong--not the "crotchety neighbor" or the neighbors who don't complain or tell you you're a PIA to your face when you tell them what a jerk the other neighbor is and ask their opinion. If on the other hand you are within what your community has explicitly defined as OK, then you're RIGHT, and it's just a matter of getting it officiated by someone (not you) and conveyed as formal response to the complaint.

If your area does not explicitly define decibel limits (as the example in post above), then it generally falls under the "reasonable man" concept--would the noise you're generating annoy a reasonable man? This type of thing gets decided in court all the time. You have every right to make noise in your pursuits until it annoys your neighbors, and they have every right to follow our societies formal rules for complaining about it, and you go to court and see what impartial judge says.

Another issue is Community Covenants and Deed Restrictions. These bear the same force as law--in fact, they are recorded in city/county books as law and so state. You 100% agree to abide by them when you buy a house, and if you're renting you ALSO agree to abide by them--all Landlord/Tenant acts mandate tenant compliance with all ordnances, laws, covenants, and deed restrictions. And HERE is the real difficult issue to overcome, not the city decibel rules--CCRs usually ambiguously define and limit your behavior to not infringe on the peaceful enjoyment of other neighbors to their homes. The interpretation of this can be more restrictive than basic city codes--this is what allows neighborhoods to keep cars off the streets, keep your driveway from becoming a junkyard autoshop, and mandate what plants must be present or are not allowed--all things which have been massively tested in court and upheld as community rights.

Lastly and what would automatically cause you to lose in court, is if you ARE in fact doing ANY form of commercial work or business in the premise. If so, you generally violate almost all neighborhood CCRs. If you do not have a city Business License to carry on the business, and prominently displayed, you lose. If you haven't filed state income taxes showing business income, you lose. If you haven't been paying city sales or transaction privilege tax, lose--these are issues I'd absolutely address, if anyone could make a charge that you were in "business", so you have a leg to stand on when fighting any complaint.

Balancing the rights of differing people is a delicate balance, and the #1 way we usually do this is COURTESY and politeness--when it degrades to the courts and decibel meters, everyone will be mad and probably no one really wins. As others have said above, showing effort on your part by mitigating the noise and working at reasonable hours, and talking with your neighbors starting FIRST with an apology for making a racket without realizing how it annoyed them (rather than an aggressive "I can do what I want, too bad!"), will do wonders. If that doesn't work, and you have to go head to head, be sure you're right (HOA, CCRs, biz, noise laws) and then go to battle.

None of this was intended as a comment on Nick, just a philosophical devil's advocate bit. Nick, I hope you're right, I hope you can solve it peaceably, and good luck to you! Don't give up hope, noise complaints can usually be overcome-- I play the bagpipes, trust me I know... I just don't play them in my back yard now!

[Rob Damon]

In my case I was warned that this busy body had been doing this for the past 20 years and nobody wanted to face him down.

Second, In my case on the noise issue:

1. We live 1 mile from an international airport that we are directly over the flight path of. Flights leave out at 6:00am with a thunderous roar. It goes on through out the day.

2. This same airport is used by the Navy for touch and go's and by Air Force one routinely. They fly directly over my house (and his).

3. This same airport is were some of the Air Force civilain aggressor planes (usually French Mirages) fly out of and they are even louder than the F-22's.

4. We are 4-5 miles from a local Air Force base that has F-22's and F-15's that fly all day long. And the F-22's are very loud and we are in thier inbound/outbound traffic pattern.

5. At the end of our street is a local elementary school that has school buses zooming up and down our road morning and afternoon as well as many commercial vehicles that service the school.

So my neighborhood is not quite the peaceful sort even though it is still somewhat out of the city.

Folks have tried to make friends with this guy but he prefers to remain a hermit and with his wife gone and kids out of the nest, he just drives around and complains about things.

Before I even placed my dumpster I asked all of my adjoining property owners if they had any heart burn and even told all of them they could feel free to use the dumpster for any debris they had laying around, which some did take me up on it. I was more than happy to share the conveniences while I had it there.

So in some (probably many) cases like this you can insulate and put of sound isolation walls, but if this person even thinks he hears something that sounds like a wood working tool, they are going to complain. Period.

I have played drums on and off all my life. One neighbor complained. So after two separate complaints I decided to pack up the drums and put them in storage (not even at my house, but a rental unit). One weekend (Sat/Sun) I had one of my windows open playing music from a stereo. He heard the music and called the cops to complain I was playing my drums too loud again. When they showed up, I promptly gave them a tour of the house and told/showed them my drums were not even there. They went over and had a talk with the guy, but the guy still said he heard me playing my drums.

It is really sad that you can't through to some of these folks.

Rob Damon

[glenn bradley]

My wife is rich I dont work..... okay i wished the last part

You had me for a second. ;-)

[Eric Haycraft]

As all the others said, you need to know the law for your local area. Around my parts, the rule is X decibels at the curb. I had a neighbor complain once and called the cops over me watching a movie and I flat out told them that I wasn't going to turn it down any. There was really nothing to discuss. I wasn't breaking the law.
Also, the general rule of thumb is that if it is amplified (tv, stereo, etc), it can be a noise violation. If not, there is no sound level limit. In this case, unless you hook up a mic and amp to make your DC or TS louder, there is usually nothing that the police can do besides ask you to stop which is not the same as citing you with something.

[Dave MacArthur]

Gah! had a long supportive post that got deleted by the back button on mouse! :(

There are 4 woodworkers in my neighborhood, and two of them are running commercial services in their 3-car garages (one cabinetry guy and one MDF raised panel wainscoting guy). Both the commercial guys are out there 8 hours a day. I chat with them sometimes, and asked them if they ever get complaints--I haven't, but don't want to either. Both of them said no, and pointed to insulated garage doors. One guy was running a PM shaper non-stop for the MDF panels, he lowered the door and it wasn't bad at all.

Here's some constructive stuff in addition to opposition philosophy ;)
1. I insulated my garage doors (3 car) in 40 min using 1" foil-backed foam insulation from Home Depot for < $60. Super easy, utility knife and can of "Great Stuff" poly foam insulation. This dropped my Phoenix summer shop temp by 25 degrees and makes it almost impossible to hear the tools from next house over.
2. I made all 3 of my neighbors a "Welcome!" sign in wood (router work), and gave them cookies too with the wife, when they moved in. I think it pays big dividends, but maybe not possible if your neighbor is the Grinch.
3. My city has a 70db limit after 7pm and before 7am, standing 50' from the source; so I close my garage doors after 7 and run no loud tools after 8pm.

Good luck!

[Steven DeMars]

had a friendly visit from the police this afternoon basically saying im too noisy and that i cant really use my power tools for as long as i have been anymore. so i can now either, give it up, move to a rural area, sell my power tools and go all hand tools...

Well Nick, not sure where you live, but I can assure you that there is no place in America that will not let you pursue a hobby unless you signed some sort of home owner agreement that SPECIFICALLY restricts you from doing so. You mentioned you are almost operating commercial, if this is the case your neighbors may very well have the law on their side. If this is the case, simply look for a place to rent that will allow you to work in. If not, fight fight fight . . . . I can think of hundreds of thing I could do to annoy my neighbors that they could not stop me from doing . . . ;)

[Joe Chritz]

Since you don't have a location in your profile it is difficult to check your local ordinances for you.

Sometime the police will go and ask people to be quiet even if they are not violating any ordinance in a bid to keep the peace. You really need to find out what your local ordinance is on nuisance noise and follow it. Then you won't have any noise problems, although it can cause other problems if the neighbor(s) decide to watch for any little issue.

A very common ordinance is no disturbing noises from 0530-2300. Usually a bit later on weekends, like 2330. There is usually a nuisance party ordinance as well but that almost always takes a few people and must qualify as a "social gathering". Cities, villages and townships generally steal ordinance language from each other so often many are very similar.

If you have draconian noise ordinances then you are probably stuck to regular hours.

Just out of curiosity what time was it?

Joe

[Denny Rice]

I would be in the city building the next morning finding out what rights I have. My wife and I have lived in the same home for 19 yrs, on US-40 it is a residential area but there are business around us also. Closer than a block away there is a muffler shop which also runs a race car during the racing season, it is not abnormal to hear that race car fire up at 1,2, or even 3 am.!!! I know your shop does not produce the noise level of a un-muffled race car in a steel building with the doors open. My shop is insulated, and paneled with 3/4 drywall so I know it helps keep the noise down.

[Bob Hampton]

Ha Ha! Brandon said it best ...turn the tide ..stalk them and when u find something they are doing that not right ...call the cops on them! ..harras the hec out of them as they do everyone else!
Where i live nieghbors are close...my nearest is 15ft off the south wall of my shop..its a rental and always changing ..ive got along with almost everyone thats lived in it just fine..im out in my shop early in the morning..so i do quiet things ..turn on my mini lathe and do small stuff ..watch the news on tv and have coffee until about 9am..there gone to work so away i go ..i usually quit about 5 or 6pm.
on another note we had some bad one's in the house across from me (again a rental) noisy druggies ..party all night ..loud music ..fights outside ..the works..call the cops several times ..wouldnt do a thing..so we all got together and took it upon ourselves to run them out...neighbor across the street (lol he is 85yrs old ) decided he needed a restoration project...(old school mechanic) bought 2 old cars and started working on them at 7am everyday..lol..no exhaust..started them at least twice an hr..raced the hec out of them all the time!..funny guy.
Then i would start with the chain saw oh about 8am..gee needed some turning blanks ...others would make dogs bark ..run mowers ..whatever they had to make noise most of the day....worked good ..they lasted a month and moved ....landlord was sent a letter by all of us that if he wanted to keep a steady renter better screen them alot better then he has!
Read the city ordinance you do have rights! and u can restrain them from harassing you as long as u are within your rights

[Joe Chritz]

Ha Ha! Brandon said it best ...turn the tide ..stalk them and when u find something they are doing that not right ...call the cops on them! ..

Trying to use the cops to accomplish your personal vendetta is a sure fire way to make someone angry. If the neighbor gets angry no yank. If the beat cop in the middle is the one it can cause serious heartache. It pays to stay off the police radar whenever possible.

I would suggest you sift the posts for someone who may be in the know about how these things work and follow those suggestions.

Joe

[Steven Hardy]

If you have a neighbor that would call authorities before talking to you person to person,they are just plain not worth pleasing.

[Wayne Cannon]

Our ordinance here limits "loud" noise to between 7:30 am to 10:00 pm, with no further definition of "loud". I hate ordinances that depend on interpretation, which varies from person to person.

If you are truly running a business in a residential neighborhood, they may require you to obtain a variance, which could be difficult if neighbors are on record as complaining.

While there are lots of fancy techniques for killing sound, mass is the best. An extra layer of sheet rock will do wonders. Attach that extra layer via "resiliant channel", and you will be hard pressed to hear anything. The catch, of course, is soundproofing doors, windows, etc. The following site has a lot of good information:
http://www.soundproofing.org/

Fortunately, the neighbor adjacent to my shop says he is too hard of hearing and has never heard my dust collector, router, saw, etc., even late at night.

[Keel McDonald]

I'd move! I live in a rural area and love it! No ordinances, and even if there were, no one else is around to care. I realize that may not be the cheapest or most desirable option, but it sure would solve a lot of issues with your neighbor. Just MHO.

[Michael Gibbons]

Nick, I may have missed it, but you didn't mention what time of day you were actually doing woodworking and how far from the neighbors house is the source of the noise?

[Jeff Cremers]

There are laws protecting you. Check out your local codes and throw a restraining order at your neighbors. Thats the problem in this country now a days, to many people bowing down to so few. Stand up for your rights !http://sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon8.gif

Ding ding ding
Get your ducks in a row by finding out the law (ours is a no amplified noise after 10 pm )
Nut up and know your rights
Jeff

[Jeff Cremers]

Exactly my thought Steven


So let us know how this turns out.

[George Sanders]

Being in the country doesn't keep interfering neighbors at bay. Some people always think that they are master of all they survey. I was shooting a high powered rifle in to dry 15' pit on some property my parents owned and the woman across the road stood on her side of the highway and screamed for me to stop shooting that gun or she would call the police. My first thought was "Hmmm...I have ten rounds to toy with her before she ALMOST makes it in the door.":rolleyes: I just told her the number is 911. After that, I and my friends could never go out there without the cops showing up. The police quit coming when I threatened to sue the sheriff's department for harassment. If I am NOT breaking any laws then LEAVE ME ALONE! Adversarial? Damn right! It's called freedom and you really have to stand up and defend it.
In my economically depressed town there are a lot of people who have unreported and untaxed home businesses. People do what they have to do to survive.
I try to get along and not run machinery too early or to late. The garage is insulated an so is the overhead door. No one has come over and complained and I guess I have been lucky. The neighborhood nut case down the block has been ordered by a judge not to call the police unless his house was on fire. Sometimes common sense does prevail.:cool:
The only way to resolve your problem is to find out where you stand in view of your local ordinances. Don't give up without a fight. Remember, you didn't fire the first shot.

[mark page]

I guess I have good neighbors. But I still don't make noise after 10:00pm on weekdays and try to keep it at same time on weekends. Shop door is closed after 9:00 for noise due to school kids in the neighborhood during the school year. Granted I don't work everynight, but I do try to keep the respect level in check. Regular daytime hours, and during summer, the shop door is open and I haven't had any complaints yet. I'm in a new subdivision so regular home building construction noises can be the norm.

[Mike Seals]

Do like I did, move out to a rural area. My closet neighbor is several hundred feet away but we are all real freindly to each other.

[J. Z. Guest]

This is a bummer Nick, and really depends on your neighbor.

I live in a building with 3 other units and attached garages. I do woodworking in my garage, but try to be considerate. I don't start before 9 or 10 on weekends, and knock off before 10 PM in the evening. People can hear me, and see the sawdust on the mat in the hall, but no one complains.

Why don't you have a talk with them and offer to compromise? Find out exactly when they need it to be quiet, and be quiet at those times. In exchange, they will not bitch & moan if you're making noise the other times.

If they are unwilling to put up with a little noise at any time, you can play the game too. Get your local codes, understand them, and be ready to play ball.

The cop is wrong, you're not borderline commercial, because you're not selling anything. It is all for personal pleasure and gifts for family, friends, and church. Right? ;)

Cops in my area have to make the visit if someone makes a call, but in situations like this, they don't take it very seriously. You can apologize and say you won't do it again. Chances are, nothing will ever really come of it. Next time the cops show up, tell them you don't start before 9 AM and don't continue beyond 9 PM. Then offer to turn on your machines while they stand outside the door, and they can make their own call as to whether it is "too much noise" during those hours.

In my neighborhood, the time to stop making noise is officially 10 PM. (no lawn-mowing, etc.)

Good luck. Don't give up. Doing everything with hand tools is entirely too much work in my humble opinion. ;)

[CW McClellan]

Buy you a big Harley and work on it all the time --Ha Ha !! make trips around the block and to mail box --ride from the back yard to the front yard to get the paper --:Danything to check it out -- Yea ask them to take a ride with you to and enjoy the feel of nature--:D:D

[John W. Willis]

Find out where you stand ordinance wise. See if you comply and if not what you need to do to comply. If you are in compliance then great BUT don't let your guard down. Many times neighbors like these don't have anything else to do but cause trouble. Usually they are unhappy people and they want everyone else to be also.

I'd say the majority of us have had some type of situation like yours at some time, me included. I had purchased a house that had set empty for two years with the yard un-mowed, windows broken out, generally an eyesore. I started by removing old carpet, rotten wood, windows, etc. and piling it in the driveway until the dumpster could be delivered. Building inspector sent me a pre-condemnation letter stating some neighbors had complained. I called him and ask how many complaints over the last two years; NONE. I told him to inform the complainers that I was going to find the biggest, nastiest family with the most dogs and cats and let them live there for FREE. No more complaints.

These things can be like a pee fight with a skunk, as long as you're the skunk it's okay but if you're not.........

[Ryan Hovis]

Not a great situation to be in. My neighbors are cool, living in the country is another plus, but they can certainly hear noise from my saws, nail guns, etc. They are cool enough to know that when they need something made out of wood, who do they ask? You might be past this point with your neighbors, but a handmade offering might change their tune. Talk to them, expain this is your hobby, craft them something cheap/useful, they might see it from another point of view, like hey, this guy 'aint so bad.

Then again people who call in on other people doing renovations are probably beyond help, figured it was worth the suggestion. I know exactly the type of person you are talking about. Old, cranky, nothing better to do. Just throwing it out there.

[Richard Dragin]

Nick, I may have missed it, but you didn't mention what time of day you were actually doing woodworking and how far from the neighbors house is the source of the noise?

This is the same thing I have been wondering while scanning this thread. Before anyone condems the neighbor maybe we should know all the facts. If my nieghbor ran a table saw after 9:00 and I could clearly hear it I'd be annoyed.

[Danny Thompson]

Nick,

Out of curiousity, what are the hours you are working? Are you trying to start a business? Is it a gar-shop or an out-building?

Have you had any direct conversation with your neighbor about the noise? It is easy to get frustrated to the point that you and your neighbor always think the worst of each other. Sometimes it works to find out whether there is something specific that is the problem v. the activity as a whole. On the other hand, some people are just mad at the world and there is nothing you can do.

I'm in the market for a new home and want to keep your experiences in mind.

[Tom Cowie]

I had a neighbor complain about me one time . He took it straight too the mayor of our small town but as it turned it wasn't me planning wood that day ,it was my next door neighbor who is the police chief :D:D
So my advice is to get your local law enforcement involved in woodworking. I haven't had anymore problems.

Tom

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

but a handmade offering might change their tune.



How about a large Italian sausage pizza with your dogs droppings on it.Do what many others have said.Get a copy of your ordinance.That's the only way to find out where you stand.The cop has to say something since they responded to the call.I would not take their word for it.As far as being commercial,you can have whatever machines you want in your garage for woodworking.Just stick to your story that it's a hobby.Keep your time of machine operation on a schedule that you yourself as a neighbor would not be bothered by.If you find out that you are in complience of the ordinance,file a harassment charge on the old farts.People that have nothing better to do and choose to make somebody else's life miserable irritate me.Good luck and stand your ground .

[Scott Kilroy]

As much as I like vendettas, getting even and acting like I'm Sonny from The Godfather, I'd like to recommend a diffrent direction.

Ask yourself if your neighbors are reasonable people who are overly sensitive or if they're people looking for someone blame for all of life's problems. If you feel they're reasonable try offering them something you made in your shop. It should be small (if you're a turner a couple of candle sticks would be a nice idea). Make it clear that this isn't a bribe, but just something you're proud of and mention to them why you like woodworking, see if they have any hobbies. If this goes well tell them that you were upset that someone called the police and that you're speaking with ALL the neighbors in the hope that people would feel comfortable coming to you directly if they had a problem (be careful to not accuse them of calling the cops) but make it clear that you're talking to a lot of people. Tell them that you're looking into soundproofing your shop but make it clear you WILL NOT STOP WORKING (hopefully this will give them the hint that they'll have to find a weaker person to drive nuts).

The whole time you're doing this you might be imagining burning their house down or leaving a horse head in their bed, and they may be jerks even when you're being nice but at least you've done everything you could, and if they call the cops again you can then take whatever countermeasures you want with a clear conscious.

[Paul Johnstone]

Keeping the neighbours happy is, to me, far more important than a hobby.

People are entitled to peace and quiet in their homes. You have the right to have a hobby, but with that right comes the obligation to ensure that your hobby doesn't interfere with your neighbours' peaceful enjoyment of their time at home.

When I set up my current workshop I consulted with each of my neighbours. We reached an agreement that I would only use noisy power tools (ie, table saw, jointer thicknesser, routers) between the hours of mid-day and 3pm on any day. Further, if they were planning an outdoor function, they'd let me know and I'd avoid machinery during that time.

In fact, since making that agreement, I probably only do 2-3 hours of machine work per week. Everyone is perfectly happy.

Don't be a neighbourhood pest. Or don't be surprised if the neighbours get ugly.

Wow, I'd never get anything done if I was constrained to only work between noon and 3 pm.

I agree that it's good to be considerate of neighbors, but I think you are going way too far to being accomodating. You have a right to the persuit of happiness as well. Sure, people that walk by my house can probably hear the machinery, but it's not as if I'm running it at 3 am..
Likewise, I didn't compain when I was working night shift and the neighbor started to mow his lawn about an hour after I went to bed.. I sucked it up like a good neighbor.

I just find it hard to believe that the OP's dust collector is making that much noise with the garage door closed. Sure, the cops could hear it if they are standing right next to it. Big deal.

The OP needs to find out what the official laws are so that the next time his annoying neighbors pester the cops into harrassing him, he will be prepared to defend himself.

[Paul Johnstone]

The OPs neighbors sound unreasonable, so he will always be in a difficult situation.

Yes, there's no point in the OP trying to reason with the complaining neighbors. He will never satisfy them. The fact that they called the cops proves it.

[nick brigg]

Nick,

Out of curiousity, what are the hours you are working? Are you trying to start a business? Is it a gar-shop or an out-building?

Have you had any direct conversation with your neighbor about the noise? It is easy to get frustrated to the point that you and your neighbor always think the worst of each other. Sometimes it works to find out whether there is something specific that is the problem v. the activity as a whole. On the other hand, some people are just mad at the world and there is nothing you can do.

I'm in the market for a new home and want to keep your experiences in mind.

i never did any machine work before 11am and never anything after 4:30. i was actually working on my workbench. like i said, they're angry at the world, when they had a rodent problem they came right up to us and blamed us. meanwhile theyre the ones that go through other people's garbages on garbage day and collect scrap metal to sell...they're the neighbors from hell and i've decided to move ASAP.

[Chris Barnett]

Thought a moment and am embarassed at my previous post. Bad humor is not always the best course.
These folks being old might just need some friendship. Could be a bit bitter with the economy going the way it is, and might be hanging onto a few things rather desperately.....i.e. there ought to be a law against infringing on them any more i.e. by society and government and taxes and higher prices etc...there is and perhaps that is why they pursue it. Might be a waste of time, but serious and repeated efforts at friendship might help. You still might not be permitted to make noise, but you might be helping a couple old timers better cope with it all.

[John Gornall]

As for older neighbours there can be an odd noise issue. My Dad in his 90's is deaf and uses serious hearing aids. He hears things I don't hear. Some small sounds that I can hardly hear drive him nuts. It's just the profile of his hearing and the profile of his hearing aids. Some sounds that he can hear just fine are amplified along with the sounds he has trouble with. Don't play drums within a mile or he'll be over with his baseball bat. But I can run my tablesaw downstairs and he doesn't hear it. A noise problem to one person may seem like nothing to another.

[Rob Russell]

meanwhile theyre the ones that go through other people's garbages on garbage day and collect scrap metal to sell...

In some areas, that's illegal and is considered theft. If that's the case in your area, all you'd have to do is put some scrap metal out, take a picture of them pilfering the scrap from your trash and file a complaint with the police :D.

[Charles P. Wright]

I'm curious as to how much noise most of the equipment makes. Seems like a shop vac approaches 90db and according to Google a TS can be 100db (I always think that my shop vac is much louder than my TS). At least in my town the rules are that during 8-9 you shouldn't exceed 65db at the property line of the perceived complaint; and 9-8 shoudln't be above 55db; which seems pretty strict compared to other regs I have seen cited. Any one have an idea how much noise some other common tools make planer makes?

I would guess that being 100 ft. away from my neighbor and having some plywood basement walls would probably reduce that by a bunch; but just curious how much that would be. Anyone have some good links of various building materials like plywood or insulation?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Here is my thinking:

First off you need to look into the local ordinances. Read 'em and know 'em. Ya might want to pay a local attorney with municipal law experience a couple hundred to get his or her take on the local regs.

Everything depends on the local ordinances. Everything.


If the regs don't restrict you from running your hobby equipment then you are golden. And I'd not be too shy about politely handing the cops a copy of the local ordinances and suggest to them that the complainants are seeking to mis-use the police to enforce what is really a private issue which should be in the civil courts if it's anywhere at all.

As an aside, the police may be in error. This sounds to me like a private issue. Police do not have any place trying to enforce private rights or contracts etc.


That is why we pay all them wunnerful taxes for the court system. So we can sue to get our private rights vindicated.

This issue of your nasty neighbor's is what is called in the law a "private nuisance."
Your hobby equipment seems to be causing them some personal distress. But, it's not illegal and certainly isn't criminal.

If your conduct were negatively affecting the whole neighborhood it'd be a "public nuisance" - - maybe. Maybe not too.

"Private nuisance" is a very - very - very hard lawsuit claim to win. They can file a suit and force you to show up and defend (costing each of you about $5-Gees in legal fees). However, unless you make the mistake of going against their lawyer on your own ( or you find that local codes prohibit your activity) you should beat them easily.

Now here is where it appears to me to be interesting:
I would advise filing a counterclaim (counter-suing). I'd file for abuse of process. Them calling the police to enforce private rights is abuse of process. I'd also add a claim for "Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress" averring that since they knew or should have known that the police do not lie to enforce private matters that they were outrageous in their conduct. You won't win on that claim and you probably won't win on "abuse of process" but the more you can pile on the more motivated they'll be to settle. You know - every one just drops the whole thing and goes home.

In the alternate you and your neighbors (if you can get them together) can file jointly as plaintiffs taking the nasty complainers to court for public nuisance and abuse of process demanding some horrifying sum in damages. Which should really blind side them from way out of the blue.

[Randal Stevenson]

In some areas, that's illegal and is considered theft. If that's the case in your area, all you'd have to do is put some scrap metal out, take a picture of them pilfering the scrap from your trash and file a complaint with the police :D.

That DOES need to be checked locally! As the Supreme court has ruled that Garbage left on the curb (city property) is fair game. When it is in someones yard, on their own property, it can be another matter.

[Greg Heppeard]

In some areas, that's illegal and is considered theft. If that's the case in your area, all you'd have to do is put some scrap metal out, take a picture of them pilfering the scrap from your trash and file a complaint with the police :D.

Could complain about possible identity theft also...

[John Gornall]

Having read through this I'm going to buy a sound level meter - I might as well know what I'm doing or defending.

[David G Baker]

Nick,
Not sure where you live but since you mentioned rodents, I trap close to 100 chipmunks, red squirrels, skunks, raccoons, possums and various colored squirrels every year and move them to forested areas. If you lived close, well you get the picture.................. :D

[Dennis Hatchett]

If at first you don't succeed, give in to the dark side and Lawyer UP!

[allan cripe]

You said they were italians, right?? Make sure they're not "connected", hire some guys to come over...bada bing, bada boom. Done!!

KIDDING, FOLKS, ONLY KIDDING!!

Life is too short, bro. I would probably move as well if they are of that demeanor.

[Bill Wyko]

I'd go tell your neighbors that if they don't like the noise of the tools wait till they hear the Basset Hounds (and make sure they hear the plural) your going to buy to spend your time with now that you can't do woodwork. They can belt it out like a freight train.:eek: Actually, go ask them when would be a convenient time for you to do your woodwork. If they say never then walk the dog over and introduce them to your new pet. (Have them trained to bark on command.) Then when the cops show up there will be no noise. Then when they leave fire them up again until the cops won't respond.:D I will say though, when I built my shop I insulated the heck out of it. Then I sheet rocked it. It's dead quiet outside. You also might check the decibel level allowed by law to see if you are even being illegal. Good luck.

[Craig D Peltier]

I was curious about my own town.I looked on there site and didint find much.I know the working hours is all.
So I called city hall thye said call the police. He read it to me on the phone nothing about decibels. So I guess thats lousy, its interpreted law.
But what i think I have learned from here is the cops cant enfore noise level during the day it has to be done by a city official like lawyer or someone with decibel meter with the law?
I admit it worries me here but im considerate and keeping fingers croseed for now.

[Greg Peterson]

We lived next to a guy that didn't exceed the sound pressure level. But he made noise every night, late into the night. He clanked around on his cars and toys all hours of the night and had the yard lit up lite it was high noon.

We lived on a dead end and he was the only other house. He was a horrible neighbor and I feel for whoever is living there now. He had no consideration for anyone but himself.

I know of many instances where police were contacted regarding noise complaints so I don't understand how calling the police would be inappropriate. And I'm not sure what their being Italian has to do with anything.

Don't get me wrong, good neighbors are worth their weight in gold and I've had my share over the years. The ones that are sticklers for the rules are far easier than the ones that don't care at all. If they're playing by the rules then they have a reasonable expectation that their neighbors do too.

You need to measure the sound pressure levels to find out how loud your operations are. If you are within the limits then you can continue your activities. If you are exceeding the limits, you are probably impacting more than one household in a way the law was designed to prevent. One of the sad realities of living in close proximity to others is that we have to respect each households right to privacy.

[Brandon Shew]

Wow, I'd never get anything done if I was constrained to only work between noon and 3 pm.

No joke. I'm not sure if he's bending over backwards for the neighbors or forwards.


You have a right to the persuit of happiness as well.

Actually, those words may not be written into the Aussie Constitution

[Ron Dunn]

Neither, Brendan. I'm just being a good neighbour.

I've found that, if I'm organised, I don't need anywhere near as much power tool time as I expected. Example:

* I run my jointer thicknesser at the start of the project for a couple of hours to dimension all the stock. Let's call that Day 1.

* I run my table saw for a couple of hours to size all the dimensioned stock. Let's call that Day 2.

* The router gets run in the table for grooving panels, etc., and usually for no more than a couple of hours. If making drawers with a dovetail jig, that might add a couple more hours. Day 3, possibly Day 4. (I find the router is one of the more objectionable tool noises)

After that I'm down to basic joinery. This is probably the biggest part of the job - joining and finishing may take weeks, so the few days of power tool use don't occur right through the job. I use a corded drill with my Dowelmax, and that is relatively quiet. I don't often sand, but my little old ROS isn't too noisy if I feel like using it at night. My shop vacuum is quieter than average, but still a bit loud, so I try to limit its use.

How many pieces of work are you guys putting out? Do you really NEED to be running power tools at any hour of the day or night?

Here's another factor that some of the more vocal among you make like to take into account ... do you have children? Would you like to put your baby/toddler to bed at around 7 or 8pm, finally sit down for a much-needed rest, then have the baby woken up by a lunatic neighbour with a Binford obsession? Just think for a few moments about what your "rights" may do to someone else ... if you don't do that, your "rights" are better termed "selfishness".

I'm really astonished by the attitudes I've seen in this thread. I thought that SMC's better educated, professional demographic would be a little more tolerant/accepting than the knuckle-dragging-tradesman-with-chips-on-both-shoulders. Guess I was wrong.

[Brian Effinger]

Here's another factor that some of the more vocal among you make like to take into account ... do you have children? Would you like to put your baby/toddler to bed at around 7 or 8pm, finally sit down for a much-needed rest, then have the baby woken up by a lunatic neighbor with a Binford obsession? Just think for a few moments about what your "rights" may do to someone else ... if you don't do that, your "rights" are better termed "selfishness".

I'm really astonished by the attitudes I've seen in this thread. I thought that SMC's better educated, professional demographic would be a little more tolerant/accepting than the knuckle-dragging-tradesman-with-chips-on-both-shoulders. Guess I was wrong.

That would be a common courtesy, but I think this neighbor crossed the courtesy line when he called the police. If he had approached this guy and said, "Hey, could you keep it down a little?" or "Could you not make noise after 8 PM because I'm in bed at that time?" or "I eat dinner between 3 & 4 in the afternoon. Do you think you could take a break then?" then maybe this would have been solved amicably and we wouldn't be reading about it now. And a lot of us wouldn't be getting worked up about it either.

[Greg Peterson]

Ron, I too am a little surprised, but to each his own.

Having lived next to someone that while they may not have breaking any noise ordinances, they certainly weren't being particularly neighborly. Especially on summer evenings when we would like to sleep with the windows open.

I guess until you have had to live with a constant invasion of your privacy it's a little difficult to appreciate the perspective from the other side of the fence.

Thanks for the tip about consulting with the neighbors. I haven't had any complaints even though I don't fire up anything after 8:00 PM or before 10:00 AM on weekends, but then again I never complained about my lousy neighbor. I'll just have to check and make sure I'm not breaking the peace.

[Greg Peterson]

Brian, one thing we should all consider is that we are only getting one perspective and not all the facts. I'm sure the OP isn't intentionally misleading any of us, but we are getting one side of the story.

[Denny Rice]

I guess I didn't know how good I have it. I work a rotating shift (either 1st or second shift) and a lot of times I will come home at midnight and work in the shop til dawn. I've been doing this for years, and never had one person complain. Like I said, I live in a residential area on US 40 with business' around me but still have never had anyone complain or call the cops on me. My shop is in a different building from my house, and its not unusual for me to crank the tunes at 1 am with the saws and planner going. I have worried about this in the past and have walked outside at night to see if its "too loud" and to be honest with you with the door shut I canot hear hardly anything, the music is even 90% muffled. I don't know what I would do if I could only turn on my machines a couple hrs a day to please the neighbors.

[Brian Effinger]

I do agree with you, Greg - we are only getting one side of the story and the facts may be skewed, but with the information we do have, it doesn't look good for the neighbor. Maybe both the poster and the neighbor need to have thicker skin, and both have some common courtesy (but then again, I don't live there & I don't know the exact situation from an objective point of view). Occasionally my immediate neighbor, less than 20 feet away, plays his drums late at night, & I can hear it in my house, even with the windows closed. The sound isn't really loud, just constant, but I would never think of calling the cops on them. It just isn't neighborly. And, those who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones - or something like that. I'm sure there are things I do that annoy the hell out of the neighbors, such as the dumpster I had in my front yard for 3 months. It was for a renovation I am doing, but it got side tracked because of family issues. Never-the-less, I'm sure my neighbors just luuuuved me :rolleyes:

[Grant Vanbokklen]

theres no reasoning with these people, they had the city threaten us with fines because we placed a rubbermaid shed too close to our fence.

restraining order!

[Eric Derry]

As I see it the real issue here is that the "offender" wasn't approached by the neighbor to try and settle the issue.

[Brian Brown]

Interesting thread. I can't comment on a solution because I don't really know the history and background of the neighborhood and it's residents, or the noise and what is really going on. What I can say, is after reading the replies on this thread, I now realize what good neighbors I have. I knew they were good neighbors before, but now I know that they are the best neighbors. I am flanked on one side by neighbors that are so quiet we hardly know that they are there, and on the other side by neighbors that are occasionally very noisy. As for the sometimes-noisy neighbors, the "noise" is always the sound of the 5 children playing and laughing with mom and dad. So the occasional "noise" is really music to our ears, and we wouldn't change it if we could. Because of the way mom and dad teach their children, these children will likely grow up to become the good kind of neighbors we all want. A week ago, one of the kids slipped a hint that dad may be transferred, so they'll be moving. I am absolutely sick about them going, because I couldn't ask for better neighbors. I worry about who might move in.

I really like some of the creative solutions some have posted here for dealing with your neighbors. They are fun to think about, but I hope you only think about them, and not carry through. It will make the problem worse. They sound like good plots for a reality TV show, but then isn't reality TV where the neighbors get the idea that it is OK to be a pain in the A**. It is as if the TV shows are giving them permission to act that way, because in “reality” that is the way people act, and there is no shame in doing it. Remember shame? I know it has been awhile since people were ashamed of some of their actions.

So because we have such good neighbors, (more than just those on each side) we will continue to do what we have always done. Be the best neighbors we can be. Retrieve their trash cans when the wind blows them over, fix the hole in the fence when one of the kids knocks a hole in it, give back the football when it lands in our koi pond, and in general watch out for them at all times. These are the same things that they do for us...always. I'm sorry you have neighbors that are a pain. I'm very fortunate that I don't. The hand made gifts from the shop will still be going to the neighbor to let them know how much we appreciate them. In fact, I think when I get home today; I will take the time to go tell them.

As for the solution to your problem, make sure the good neighbors know that you appreciate them, and do your best to be a good neighbor to the jerks. Maybe someday they will lighten up. Don’t hold your breath, but you never know.