Magnetic Tool Strips

[Burt Alcantara]

Years ago there were a number of articles about how magnetic tool strips would somehow adversely affect blade sharpness yet I've noticed many professional woodworkers use them.

Is there any merit to this "myth?"

Burt

[Bob Slater]

Sounds like a Myth to me. I have some Lee valley magnetic strips for my screwdrivers. They are great for messy people.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I have a nice little rack that I keep for the lathe tools, with a pair of magnetic strips. They hold the tools nice and firm, and yet easy to get when you need them. I cannot fathom how they could affect the sharpness of a tool.

Doc

[Jules Dominguez]

That would be an "old wives, oops I mean woodworkers tale".
I worked as a mechanical engineer in industry for 40 years and I've never heard of any such effect.

[RickT Harding]

What about that they magnetize the tools on the magnet rack?

[Josiah Bartlett]

They do magnetize the tools slightly, and cause the filings to stick to them and other metal things when sharpening, but I can't really see that being a big deal.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

If there is anything to the Magnetism being bad for blades myth I rather suspect it is entirely subject to the fact that once you magnetize something it tends to pick up every little bit of ferrite metal dust around.

So in a machine shop magnetized tools is a major problem.

In the wood shop I can see that you might have issues if you do a lot of your own saw sharpening or other metal work that creates filings and grinding dust. Then maybe your edges will attract the metal particulate matter and maybe - - just maybe it'll get between the edge and the work and dull the blade.

However, that said: It won't be the magnetism that dulls the blade it'll be the contaminants that are attracted to the magnetized blade.

I belong to the school of thought that eschews magnetizing anything I don't have to. I won't put a magnet on my machinery. I won't have those magnetic work holders on my equipment on the theory that any magnetism that accumulates may cause metal particles to accumulate in the trunnion and crank assemblies possibly causing premature wear. I don't know how likely it is that a whole machine could be so magnetized (it's prolly not likely) but, it's my theory.


Besides I use files and grinders on metal quite often and it pains my heart to see metal filings collecting on my tools.

[Bruce Benjamin]

The only way I can see the magnetic strips being a problem is if they weren't strong enough. In other words, the tools slip from the strip and fall to the hard shop floor.;):D

Bruce

[Thom Sturgill]

Well, I'm not a metal worker either, but as I understand, a lot of the hardening/tempering process has to do with establishing a particular crystal structure to the steel and magnetizing changes that. I know that a lot of chefs feel the same way about their blades and magnetism, so its not just a woodworkers myth if in fact it is a myth.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

a lot of the hardening/tempering process has to do with establishing a particular crystal structure to the steel and magnetizing changes that.

The crystalline structure is entirely unaffected by magnetics. Magnetism is about how the electrons are oriented not the crystals.



I know that a lot of chefs feel the same way about their blades and magnetism, so its not just a woodworkers myth if in fact it is a myth.

I know a lot of them who think that polyprop' and ethelyne cutting boards are bad for their knives. preferring wood with it's abrasive fibers and silica. Go figure. Chefs tend not to be well educated people.

But then, the course of study at any of the world's best cooking schools is really just a Vocational education ( it's a trade skill). There is no physics, no calculus, no higher math, no science, no chemistry, no history, no grammar - it is entirely dedicated to food: its preparation, presentation, and management.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Well, I'm not a metal worker either, but as I understand, a lot of the hardening/tempering process has to do with establishing a particular crystal structure to the steel and magnetizing changes that. I know that a lot of chefs feel the same way about their blades and magnetism, so its not just a woodworkers myth if in fact it is a myth.

I was a chef for more than 10 years and I saw many knives kept on magnetic strips. The house knives generally weren't very expensive but they were usually of good quality and were kept with a sharp edge. I rarely heard anyone make a complaint that they weren't sharp enough. Of course they were also ran over a sharpening steel many times a day too. That being said, I have a very expensive set of knives that I kept/keep in their own protective roll. Honestly, I think the idea that the relatively mild magnetic field of the tool strips having any real effect on an edge is silly. There might be some way to measure the difference in durability under laboratory conditions but I doubt that anyone is going to actually see a practical difference in real world use.

I was sort of joking in my previous post but the worst thing I can see happening with using those to hold your tools is that they might fall onto the floor. Then you either have to deal with a damaged edge or, worse yet, a damaged foot.

Bruce

[Burt Alcantara]

I'm glad to hear this myth is busted! This helps my plans for shop re-organization.

Thanks,
Burt

[Bruce Benjamin]

I know a lot of them who think that polyprop' and ethelyne cutting boards are bad for their knives. preferring wood with it's abrasive fibers and silica. Go figure. Chefs tend not to be well educated people.

But then, the course of study at any of the world's best cooking schools is really just a Vocational education ( it's a trade skill). There is no physics, no calculus, no higher math, no science, no chemistry, no history, no grammar - it is entirely dedicated to food: its preparation, presentation, and management.

Yeah, we shefs r gust a lot of stewpid igiots that aint never learnt nothun. I hope a local chef reads your post and spits in your food, Cliff. You really think that taking physics and calculus is the only way to tell if your knife is more or less sharp after hanging it on a magnetic tool holder? Some of the brightest people that I know in real world, practical smarts aren't necessarily people who went to college. In fact some of the most inept people I know are people who have a head full of that fancy shmancy book learnin' and still can't find their @$$ with both hands. Being a chef is a lot more than just standing at a stove and flipping pans. Have you ever ran a restaurant? I have. It's a very difficult job that requires a lot of skills, including math and economics. I can tell you've really thought your statement through very thoroughly and really know a lot about chef's school and what you have to know in order to be a chef.

Bruce

[Josiah Bartlett]

The part about them falling off is definitely true, though. I don't like leaving lathe tools on there.

A friend of mine left one of his block planes on the magnetic tool holder. He came back and found that the force of closing the man door in the shop had knocked it off and it was lying on the concrete with a crack in the sole.

[Chris Padilla]

The crystalline structure is entirely unaffected by magnetics. Magnetism is about how the electrons are oriented not the crystals.

During the tempering process on a piece of steel, it is heated up to a certain point where it is no longer magnetic and then quickly quenched in oil or water or something. I've heard and seen this done but that is the extent of my knowledge.

So unless heat is involved, room termperture steel and magnetic strips have no impact on each other.

[Andy Richards]

I imagine the dulling comes from the knife blade whacking the magnetic strip as the metal is attracted when you go to put it away. That or the edge dragging across the strip as you pull the knife away. It has nothing to do with magnetism itself.

If you're worried, cover the magnetic strip with something soft, like duct tape or something.

[Wayne Cannon]

An earlier thread recommended strongly against using magnetic strips for lathe tools, because a magnetized tool no longer slides as easily along the tool rest, and I can see that it could definitely aggravate the use of a skew chisel.

[Russ Filtz]

I know a lot of them who think that polyprop' and ethelyne cutting boards are bad for their knives. preferring wood with it's abrasive fibers and silica. Go figure. Chefs tend not to be well educated people.

That could have grown out of the fact that plastic boards are actually bad hygienically. The tend to develop cuts which can harbor bacteria. Wood, even though it also gets cut up, has some natural anti-bacterial properties. A lot of places that switched to plastic, are now switching back to the tried and true wood cutting boards.

[Russ Filtz]

So unless heat is involved, room termperture steel and magnetic strips have no impact on each other.

That I do believe is wrong! You can magnetize any susceptible piece at room temp by extended contact, or faster by rubbing in one direction. It's all due to the magnetic field. You can De-magnetize with heat also, but it's not permanent. The piece can be magnetized again. The effect would be similar to an electro magnet, which pretty much happens at room temp solely due to the electric field. I think the heat just acts like a catalyst, allowing the piece to be magnetized or de-magnetized quicker.

[Chris Padilla]

Russ,

I guess I meant in regards to tempering or damaging the edge of a metal tool. Yes, of course one can magnetize or demagnetize steel at room temperature; pretty common knowledge. :)

[Bruce Benjamin]

That could have grown out of the fact that plastic boards are actually bad hygienically. The tend to develop cuts which can harbor bacteria. Wood, even though it also gets cut up, has some natural anti-bacterial properties. A lot of places that switched to plastic, are now switching back to the tried and true wood cutting boards.

Good post, Russ. Cliff's comments about the lack of education of chefs show that he isn't very educated about the chefs he's insulting. ;):D I've never heard a chef say that they think poly is harder on their knives than wood. I've never thought that and nobody I ever worked with was that ignorant.

I don't think that your statement about wood versus poly cutting boards and bacteria really tells the whole story though. Some wood may have some anti-bacterial properties more than a poly board but they also tend to get cut up a lot more than a poly board. Every natural wood cutting board I've ever used always ended up with far more deep cuts than a poly board. This meant that the wood boards required a lot more scrubbing to get the food out of the voids. The wood fibers tend to hold onto the food residue more than poly too. And most places where I worked would remove the poly boards and run them through the large commercial dishwashers to clean and sterilize them, something you can't and shouldn't really do with a wooden board.

I can't comment on current restaurant practices because I got out of the restaurant business about 13 years ago or so but back then there were far more poly boards than wooden boards. I should say, "Natural" wooden boards. There were some of the man made fiber boards and they worked pretty well, (Hygienically speaking) but I didn't like them because they're a lot harder than poly and I think they dulled my knives faster than poly.

Bruce

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Yeah, we shefs r gust a lot of stewpid igiots that aint never learnt nothun.

Bruce, I said nothing of the sort.


I hope a local chef reads your post and spits in your food, Cliff. Such anger. And for what? I guess it had to be the very short hand way I referenced the Voc Tech education of a cooking school by saying “not well educated.”

And Bruce, for the negative implications you may have got from that - I apologize.


You really think that taking physics and calculus is the only way to tell if your knife is more or less sharp after hanging it on a magnetic tool holder? No, I think that myths about magnetism (inter alia) are abundant and too many people question them too infrequently.


Some of the brightest people that I know in real world, practical smarts aren't necessarily people who went to college. In fact some of the most inept people I know are people who have a head full of that fancy shmancy book learnin' and still can't find their @$$ with both hands.There is a delta between education and intelligence. There are different kinds of education and there are also different kinds of intellect.





Being a chef is a lot more than just standing at a stove and flipping pans.

Tell me about it.


Have you ever ran a restaurant? Yes, I‘ve owned one.


I can tell you've really thought your statement through very thoroughly and really know a lot about chef's school and what you have to know in order to be a chef. Clearly you took that to be negative (which it was not) and far more personally than I anticipated any one might.

There is no shame in practicing a trade. There is no shame in a vocational education.
Neither is there any particular dignity in a formal education where one seeks an “avocation” such as accounting or engineering.
And as to the professions: Well: http://tinyurl.com/28w5r5 ;

And yah I considered what I was saying before I posted. But then, I’ve looked into the education of a chef before.

How to be a Chef: http://tinyurl.com/2cuq72

I got the below curriculum from the Le Cordon Bleu
Below is a list of curricula for an average culinary institute. There is nothing about Chemistry there. There are no sciences at all. There is no literature requirement. No math, no algebra, trig, or calculus. It’s not even half an education. It’s vocational, it is job training – nothing more.
• Advanced Wine & Spirits Studies
• Art of Cooking
• Baking & Pastry Arts
• Catering & Banquet Operations
• Culinary Arts
• Culinary Arts & Restaurant Ownership
• Culinary/Restaurant Management
• Entrepreneurship & Restaurant Ownership
• Foundation in Wine & Wine Service
• Fundamentals of Restaurant Baking
• Fundamentals of Restaurant Pastry
• Hospitality & Restaurant Business Management
• Intermediate Studies in Wines & Spirits
• Pastry Arts
• Professional Baking & Pastry
• Professional Catering
• Professional Cooking
• Restaurant & Catering Management

And at Le Cordon Bleu you get Le Grand Diplome by studying for nine months taking only 3 courses each of cuisine and pastry. That’s not even a Voc’ Tech’.

Mind you, I ain’t saying that you don’t learn anything~!! I’m merely articulating the notion that the substance of the education is that of a Vocational school. And that is not a bad thing by any measure.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce, I said nothing of the sort.

Such anger. And for what? I guess it had to be the very short hand way I referenced the Voc Tech education of a cooking school by saying “not well educated.”

And Bruce, for the negative implications you may have got from that - I apologize.


Cliff, you've got to be kidding. How could any sane and rational person extract anything but negative implications from your statements? "I know a lot of them who think that polyprop' and ethelyne cutting boards are bad for their knives. preferring wood with it's abrasive fibers and silica. Go figure. Chefs tend not to be well educated people." That's certainly not complimenting their intelligence since you really don't need any sort of degree to know that abrasive fibers equals a dull knife. Now, you happen to be wrong in that the real reason for some chefs preferring wood is for hygienic reasons, not to keep their knives sharp. the only plastic cutting boards that will dull a knife are those hard plastic boards and no real restaurant actually has any of those in the kitchen. If they weren't smart enough to figure that out it's unlikely that they were smart enough to produce good food. Regardless, it has nothing to do with an education except and it's really just a polite way of saying that they're stupid. Like saying someone is, "Big boned" is a polite way of saying they're fat.

And regarding the, "Spit in your food" comment, I can imagine how well you were loved in the restaurant you owned if you viewed your chef(s) they way you've demonstrated on this forum. "Here, take this food to Cliff...No wait!...Spatooie!...There ya go, take it to him now. ;):D:D:D

Now, to keep this slightly on topic, I have a couple of those magnetic tool strips but I only use them to hold the tools necessary to adjust my power tools. The slight magnetism they pick up hasn't hurt a thing.

Bruce

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Cliff, you've got to be kidding.

nope.



How could any sane and rational person extract anything but negative implications from your statements?


Well I did apologize. Maybe it didn't seem heartfelt~?



That's certainly not complimenting their intelligenceGranted it was a broad and unfair brush with which to paint all people who call themselves by that vocation.

I am most certain that there are chefs with PhDs in whatever who simply prefer cooking. I am also most certain that there are plenty of them who are just brilliant people who took that career path.

"well educated" was a hideous choice of words. It was one of those things that later when you roll it over in your head you wish you had used another expression or just said nothing.

Maybe "extensively" educated or "formally" or "classically" might have stood in better.

At any rate I apologized.


Now, you happen to be wrong in that the real reason for some chefs preferring wood is for hygienic reasons, not to keep their knives sharp.This may be. I however, got read the riot act by a flock of Culinary experts ( I think it was about 5) who insisted that wood doesn't dull knives and plastic does.

Maybe I shouldn't have taken that to be a myth shared by a majority of the vocation. However, it was in a culinary forum and no other culinary experts stepped in, so~ ~ ~ ~



Regardless, it has nothing to do with an education except and it's really just a polite way of saying that they're stupid. Like saying someone is, "Big boned" is a polite way of saying they're fat. Maybe. I find that extensive well rounded education is a benefit in so very many ways.


And regarding the, "Spit in your food" comment, I can imagine how well you were loved in the restaurant you owned if you viewed your chef(s) they way you've demonstrated on this forum.Good thing you aren't writing children's books 'cause your imagination leaves something to be desired. I've never had an unhappy employee. As an aside I ran the kitchen.

However, you did manage to demonstrate a measure of irascibility that I'm not willing to tolerate in myself.


Now, to keep this slightly on topic, I have a couple of those magnetic tool strips but I only use them to hold the tools necessary to adjust my power tools. The slight magnetism they pick up hasn't hurt a thing. Then why'd you raise that myth the way you did and foist it off onto the poor chefs?

Now you have me feeling sorry for them.