Saw Stop Contractor TS Video at FWW

[Randy Klein]

Link to video (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideArticle.aspx?id=30456)

[Randy Klein]

Bump for the night crew...

[Tom Henderson2]

Truly amazing. I have a lot of respect for John White, and it adds a lot of credibility to see him do the demo.

The first time, he was feeding the hot dog pretty slowly, and it hardly even nicked the sausage. The second time, he was going much faster, and even then it was not badly nicked.

-TH

[Randy Klein]

The second time, he was going much faster, and even then it was not badly nicked.
-TH

And that was with the dado stack.

[Don Bullock]

Truly amazing. ...
The first time, he was feeding the hot dog pretty slowly, and it hardly even nicked the sausage. ...

-TH

It is truly amazing. In the last demonstration I saw with a regular saw blade the operator ran it through very quickly and we couldn't find the nick on the hot dog. This is the first demonstration I've seen with a dado stack. Wow!

[Steve Sawyer]

While it's nice to see this saw finally see the light of day, I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed. Given the quality of their magnificent cabinet saw (every bit the equal, IMO of the PM2000), I was hoping for something special in the contractor's saw that would make me more comfortable with the price. Instead it seems to be a pretty standard contractor's saw with a couple of minor upgrades - the dust collection shroud, the poly-v belt and riving knife.

As I understand they are still working against the backlog of pre-orders, there is no additional information on their site, but an Email reply I received from SS a couple of months back anticipated base pricing to be about $1500. Once you add the (optional) cast iron extension the (optional) Biesemeyer fence and the (optional) mobile base, the final price (not including shipping) is going to be northwards of $2000.

I wonder if they're not targeting those who really must have a contractor's saw - professional finish carpenters and contractors that need to be able to transport the saw to a worksite, and want to maximize worker safety and keep their workmen's compensation liability to a minimum.

Had they offered something along the lines of the Grizzly G0661 with the SS cartridge and a standard mobile base for $1500 - $1800, I'd say they'd have a winner. As it is, my guess is that the contractor is going to be much less popular than their cabinet saw. If a person is thinking of spending that kind of money for a contractor's saw, but for whom a cabinet saw would be just as practical, spending the 50% premium to go with the cab is
going to be pretty compelling.

[Chris Bruno]

Steve,

I realize there's a history of Sawstop debate and by no means do I intend to flare any of that up, but I think you are absolutely correct when you suggest that they are going after true contractors with this saw.

From the beginning, my understanding is that the root of the sawstop innovation has been to find a solution for injuries that was justifiable on the economic sense of medical bills and insurance costs. To that end, I could imagine that a heckuva lot more injuries happen on a jobsite where conditions are less than ideal and time pressures are in general more significant.

My own opinion is that Mr. Gass is really targeting those people who MUST have a more portable saw that can still offer protection, not to those who want the cabinet saw but just can't justify its cost. If you believe that, then the use of a stamped steel wings and lighter weight rip fences all make a lot more sense as cast iron wings and a Bies would add another 100lbs to the assy...it hardly makes it a saw that could be easily transported to a jobsite.

To be honest, from the business perspective, I kind of expected it to be even more lightweight and portable than it turned out to be.

-Chris

[Brandon Shew]

While it's nice to see this saw finally see the light of day, I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed. Given the quality of their magnificent cabinet saw (every bit the equal, IMO of the PM2000), I was hoping for something special in the contractor's saw that would make me more comfortable with the price. Instead it seems to be a pretty standard contractor's saw with a couple of minor upgrades - the dust collection shroud, the poly-v belt and riving knife.


I'm with you on the price factor, but what were you wanting or expecting? A contractor's saw is just that - a contractor's saw. Were you expecting some magical feature or design?

Look at the price difference on their cabinet saw to a comparable PM. That safety mechanism costs the same for their cabinet saw as it does for their contractor's saw, but the difference is that it is a larger percentage of the price in the contractor's version. You're comparing it to the Griz, but even w/o the SS feature it's probably a nicer saw (never seen the Griz in person).

In their defense - I saw one in person and the quality is definitely there compared to other contractor saws on the market. I've looked at quite a few saws lately including the Jet and Delta contractor's style saws, Jet Proshop, and I just sold an older PM 63. (Granted those saws and even a PM 64 can be had for under $1K) The tables are polished nicely and near perfectly flat. The overall fit and finish is very nice and the saw is beefy for a contractor style. It is commensurate with the quality of their cabinet saw, but only in a contractor's setup. The non- Bies style fence leaves a little to be desired, but so do the base fences on all contractor's saws.

Those other upgrades do cost money which adds some to the price, but as with the cabinet saw, you're paying for the SawStop safety feature more than the added "niceties." As nice as it is though - my $1500 would buy a Jet or Griz Cabinet saw.

[Randy Klein]

I wonder if they're not targeting those who really must have a contractor's saw - professional finish carpenters and contractors that need to be able to transport the saw to a worksite, and want to maximize worker safety and keep their workmen's compensation liability to a minimum.

That is my assumption as well.

[Chris Padilla]

SS is always going to be "up there" in price so this shouldn't really surprise anyone. It isn't like SS makes a whole lot of other things other than two saws and some special cartridges. Dowelmax folks only make the Dowelmax.

However, SS has a very special and unique saw and so they feel they can charge a premium for it. It is in their right to charge whatever they want and if they are making sales, then good for them. They feel they have a product people are willing to pay more for and all the power to them if they are right. That is capitalism at its finest. :)

[Steve Sawyer]

It is in their right to charge whatever they want and if they are making sales, then good for them. They feel they have a product people are willing to pay more for and all the power to them if they are right. That is capitalism at its finest.

I agree with you 100%, Chris.

What I was hoping for (to answer another question posted above) was actually a hybrid - something less than the top-of-the-line, best-of-everything that their cabinet saw represents, and a bit more affordable. This was my personal hope. My observation that the configuration and pricing of this saw misses the mark for the market segment that I represent (the serious hobbiest woodworker) doesn't mean that I'm questioning their decision. I'm simply lamenting the fact that their go-to-market strategy hasn't matched up with my personal preference and needs.

It's not the first time that some vendor hasn't catered to my tastes, and certainly won't be the last! :)

I do hope from a business standpoint that their decision turns out to be a good one. I think that they have a good product, have pursued an innovative marketing strategy, and I like to see companies like that succeed.

[M. A. Espinoza]

I agree with you 100%, Chris.

What I was hoping for (to answer another question posted above) was actually a hybrid - something less than the top-of-the-line, best-of-everything that their cabinet saw represents, and a bit more affordable. This was my personal hope. My observation that the configuration and pricing of this saw misses the mark for the market segment that I represent (the serious hobbiest woodworker) doesn't mean that I'm questioning their decision. I'm simply lamenting the fact that their go-to-market strategy hasn't matched up with my personal preference and needs.

It's not the first time that some vendor hasn't catered to my tastes, and certainly won't be the last! :)

I do hope from a business standpoint that their decision turns out to be a good one. I think that they have a good product, have pursued an innovative marketing strategy, and I like to see companies like that succeed.

FYI Sawstop apparently has a hybrid and a lighter version of a cabinet saw in the works. This is coming from Steve Gass.

Claim they may be in production in '09.

[Brian Penning]

I wonder if they're not targeting those who really must have a contractor's saw - professional finish carpenters and contractors that need to be able to transport the saw to a worksite, and want to maximize worker safety and keep their workmen's compensation liability to a minimum.



I've been to quite a few job and construction sites. Have yet to see a contractor's saw. Most use those smaller jobsite saws. More so these days with the folding legs and wheels on them.

I think they came out with the Contractor style saw because they had already been too long & deep into the R&D prior to the popularity of the Hybrid style.

[Steve Sawyer]

FYI Sawstop apparently has a hybrid and a lighter version of a cabinet saw in the works.

That'd be good news for the WW community, though one wonders how they're going to fit two more price points into their lineup, even if the hybrid is priced similarly to the contractor.

[Anthony Whitesell]

There's another way to look at the cost of the SS. If the SS and PM2000 are equal in quality, then one could do the math $SS - $PM2000 = price for the SS braking system. If it was possible to by the SS brake and add it to the PM2000, what do you think it would cost?

I don't generally follow these threads because both saws are well out of my price and size ranges. I looked at this thread to see what the contractor SS looks like.

[Steve Sawyer]

There's another way to look at the cost of the SS. If the SS and PM2000 are equal in quality, then one could do the math $SS - $PM2000 = price for the SS braking system. If it was possible to by the SS brake and add it to the PM2000, what do you think it would cost?

What would be the cost to add it, or the cost to BUY it? :)

I believe an apples-apples comparison of the two (3HP and 30" or 36" standard fence, mobile base) would yield about $3400 for the SS and $2200 for the PM2000, a $1200 premium for the SS.

[Steve Sawyer]

I've been to quite a few job and construction sites. Have yet to see a contractor's saw. Most use those smaller jobsite saws. More so these days with the folding legs and wheels on them.

I think they came out with the Contractor style saw because they had already been too long & deep into the R&D prior to the popularity of the Hybrid style.

You might be right. They've been working on that contractor's saw a LONG time...