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Charles Green
03-17-2008, 10:10 PM
I have a 200 amp panel in my garage. It is a Siemens brand if that has any bearing on it.

All of my circuits are full at this time.

I would like to do the following and wanted to know if this is okay.

I want to replace a few of the 15 amp and 20 amp breakers with the breakers that have two separate breakers in one. (not sure of the correct term).

After this opens up room what do I need to do to install a breaker that gives me 220? Do I just get another of the double breakers and install both hots to it or is there another type of breaker needed?

I read that you have to make sure the hots are coming from different legs but what if all of the multileg spots are full? Can I attach to two different breakers on opposite sides of the box?

I went to Home Depot and got no help from the "electrician" in the department so wanted some further advice.

Sorry if my terms are incorrect. I have run about 5 new breakers but the only 220 that happened I had help with.

Thanks in advance.

Jason Beam
03-18-2008, 12:32 AM
I want to replace a few of the 15 amp and 20 amp breakers with the breakers that have two separate breakers in one. (not sure of the correct term).

Yes you can. Provided you make 1:1 replacements. If the hot was on a 15a breaker, make sure it goes back onto one. If the hot was on a 20a, it should go back onto one. The slimline (or duplex) breakers are perfectly fine for this purpose.


After this opens up room what do I need to do to install a breaker that gives me 220? Do I just get another of the double breakers and install both hots to it or is there another type of breaker needed?

No you can't use the same breakers as mentioned above. This is for two reasons. The first reason is that both hots off the duplex breakers is from the same leg and that won't give you 240v. The second reason is forthcoming...


I read that you have to make sure the hots are coming from different legs but what if all of the multileg spots are full? Can I attach to two different breakers on opposite sides of the box?

No you can't do that. The requirement of a 240v breaker is that it blows both hot legs no matter what. These breakers look a whole lot like two breakers, but they're tied together physically so that if one trips it forces the other to trip as well.

By replacing a handful of your full width breakers with slim ones, you may be able to condense things enough to fit a 240v breaker in there - but it usually means you have to free up two adjacent slots somehow. I'm told that even that may not be a constant rule as some panels don't weave the two legs through the entire strip. Check your panel to make sure and do a little planning to ensure you get both hot legs adjacent to one another for the 240v circuit.

If for ANY reason you feel you're over your head, call an electrician. These kinds of changes can easily land you in an unsafe situation if you're not 100% confident in the changes you make.

dave rollins
03-18-2008, 12:34 AM
Charles
Please do not put a breaker on each side of your panel to get your 220 volts. The breakers need to be tied together so that both legs trip at the same time. You can install a QUAD breaker to obtain your 220 volts. This type of breaker, although not what I would prefer, will be an acceptable way of getting your 220 volt power. You didn't state what amperage you are trying to obtain so here are a few options 15/20/20/15, 20/20/20/20, 20/30/30/20, 20/40/40/20, 30/20/20/30, 30/30/30/30, 30/40/40/30. As you can see the 2 center breakers are tied together and the 2 outside breakers are tied together.
You could remove a breaker to your hot water heater and add one of these in it's space or your clothes dryer or stove etc. This gives you both legs this way.
Have you considered adding a sub-panel next to your current panel to obtain the circuits you are needing and then this way you don't have to go to the QUAD breakers? You may wish to check the cost involved as these speciality breakers are not inexpensive.
Hope this helps
Dave

Steve Leverich
03-18-2008, 3:48 AM
I just bought a Siemens small sub panel, and if yours is the same series you can get "quad" breakers that have a ganged 220 breaker in the middle, and two separate 120 volt breakers on the outsides. These breakers take up the same room as two single breakers so you double your connections - also, the way my siemens panel is set up these breakers get BOTH legs of the power - so the center pair is 220 and the two outside singles are on opposing legs of the 220.

The siemens breakers arent' all that expensive - IIRC, the quads were under $30 each for a 30 amp 220 and two 20 amp 120 breakers. I got mine at my local HD... Steve

Joe McCormick
03-18-2008, 6:50 AM
I have also found the Siemans breakers at Lowe's. If they or Home Depot don't carry them, check your yellow pages under electrical suppliers. They will more then like have what you want. I had an electrician install a Siemans sub panel in my basement and in my workshop. He said they were one of the better brands of electrical panels.

Chris Padilla
03-18-2008, 1:43 PM
here are a few options 15/20/20/15, 20/20/20/20, 20/30/30/20, 20/40/40/20, 30/20/20/30, 30/30/30/30, 30/40/40/30. As you can see the 2 center breakers are tied together and the 2 outside breakers are tied together.

My 150-A main panel is FULL of 20/20/20/20, 30/30/30/30, and 30/20/20/30 duplex breakers. It really saved me a lot of agony just purchasing these and rearranging things in the panel. I may even have a 30/50/50/30 in there, too...don't recall but I did put in a 50-A subpanel.