MiniMax S45 Bandsaw problem. Help!

[Brad Noble]

As the title implies, I have an older model (around 1993 I think) MiniMax S-45. I have to admit that when I first got it (bought it used) it seemed to work OK. Then I decided to get some new blades. I bought some Timberwolf blades on the recomendations of others I had spoken to. Then I started to have problems with blade drift and the inability to resaw a simple 12" long board maybe 6-8" wide from one end thru the other without a variance of at least 1/8".

OK, I convinced myself it was the fault of the blades (unfairly) and replaced my 3/4" 4 tpi Timberwolf blade with a (Highland Hardware) Woodslicer 3/4" 4 tpi blade. ----------- Same problem.

Have spent hours adjusting the fence for blade drift, spent complete afternoons working with blade tensioning according to the instructions from MiniMax USA and I have adjusted and re-adjusted the guides (roller bearing style). I have cleaned the tires and inspected them very closely and can find nothing wrong yet I know there is. The blade(s) track very well when I have changed them with little to no effort so I am assuming that the wheels are co-planer to each other.

Ideas? Help.

Brad

[Mike Heidrick]

How do you tension your blades. Have you tried different tensions?

[Pete Bradley]

Hmmm...you've gone after some of the likely suspects, so more information is required.

When you run the machine with no workpiece, is the blade running straight (when viewed from behind, looks like a blade, not a blur) on both the down and the up side?

Describe the setup. Is it passing a flat workpiece along a flat fence? What kind of wood? Green or dry?

Describe the result. Is the cut flat but not parallel to the fence, or is it barreled (curved with respect to the fence)?

Describe the resulting cut surface. Is it smooth or does it have a heavy sawtooth pattern in it?

Pete

[Brad Noble]

Hmmm...you've gone after some of the likely suspects, so more information is required.

When you run the machine with no workpiece, is the blade running straight (when viewed from behind, looks like a blade, not a blur) on both the down and the up side?

Thanks for responding. The blade has no vibration at all. It looks as smooth as possible.

Describe the setup. Is it passing a flat workpiece along a flat fence? What kind of wood? Green or dry?

Yes, flat against flat fence. Tried poplar and ash and some curly maple.

Describe the result. Is the cut flat but not parallel to the fence, or is it barreled (curved with respect to the fence)?

Just not parallel to the fence at all. If you look down at the piece at the edge you will see curves as if to say the blade is moving back and forth somewhat. Does that make sense?

Describe the resulting cut surface. Is it smooth or does it have a heavy sawtooth pattern in it?

It has a sawtooth pattern but I don't think I would call it heavy. A very quick pass over a sander and its all gone.

Pete


Thanks for the help. I'm stumped.

Brad

[Anthony Whitesell]

Brad, What happens if you cut something shorter 1-2" tall instead of 6-8" tall?

[Mike Circo]

I can't comment on that model of saw specifically, my experience lies with several of the cast iron 14" variaties. So that said...

With a tool of that age, I'd wonder about fatigue of the tensioning spring. If you need to unduly crank up the tension on the spring to get a suitable tensioned blade, you may end up compressing the spring all the way down until the coils are nearly closed. Then when put under cutting pressure, there is no "slack" in the spring coils to do their job. The spring essentially bottoms out and allows the blade to de-tension.

Simply put. Check that the spring is not compressed such that the coils are closed. Or just look for a replacement, a few dollar upgrade that couldn't hurt.

Again, based on experiences with 14" saws, that is what I've seen.

M

[Louis Rucci]

You assumed the wheels are co-planar. Have you actually checked that?

[Brad Noble]

Brad, What happens if you cut something shorter 1-2" tall instead of 6-8" tall?

Excellant question. Short answer, I don't know. But I will know before too long. Thanks.

Brad

[Brad Noble]

Simply put. Check that the spring is not compressed such that the coils are closed. Or just look for a replacement, a few dollar upgrade that couldn't hurt.
M

I have and I must admit that I've cranked it down pretty tight in pure frustration only to back it off after I come to my senses. A new spring it will be. Thanks.

Brad

[Brad Noble]

You assumed the wheels are co-planar. Have you actually checked that?

Yes and no. OK, let me explain. :D

Yes I did assume and that is my mistake. No I haven't actually checked it myself. Now what I need is a proper and "easy" way to check the 'co-planer' of these wheels. Any ideas?

Brad

[Lance Norris]

Now what I need is a proper and "easy" way to check the 'co-planer' of these wheels. Any ideas?

Brad

A piece of 2x4 long enough to reach each wheel, with a piece of 2x4 as long as the diameter of the wheels, on each end, to double the thickness. Press against the wheels and see if they are in the same plane.

[Lance Norris]

sorry for the crude drawing, but like this:

[John Hain]

A piece of 2x4 long enough to reach each wheel, with a piece of 2x4 as long as the diameter of the wheels, on each end, to double the thickness. Press against the wheels and see if they are in the same plane.

What is considered adequate? I've read some guys state that you need near perfection and others who state "coplanarity" is entirely overrated and makes little difference unless grossly non-planer (as in the saw is bent).

[Brad Noble]

A piece of 2x4 long enough to reach each wheel, with a piece of 2x4 as long as the diameter of the wheels, on each end, to double the thickness. Press against the wheels and see if they are in the same plane.

Got it. Even I can do that. Thanks.

Brad

PS: Love the drawing.

[Brad Noble]

What is considered adequate? I've read some guys state that you need near perfection and others who state "coplanarity" is entirely overrated and makes little difference unless grossly non-planer (as in the saw is bent).

Ooh, good question too. I'll stand by and await an equally good answer. :D

Seriously though, when is co-planer ~not~ co-planer? Know what I mean?

Brad

[mike marconi]

Brad

I had the same saw and went through the same problems your describing, here are couple thoughts.

The tension gauge is pretty much worthless, mine performed best when I applied maximum tension to a 3/4 blade. To determine take the spring out and measure it un-compressed. Then put the spring in a vise and compress it all the way. Measure the difference between the compressed and un-compressed state. After you re-install the spring turn the tension knob until it just engages the spring and make a mark on the gauge then make another mark below it equal to the difference measured earlier. Turn the tension knob until the bottom is just shy (1/8" or so) of the lower mark. That will get you in the ball park, as stated earlier do not bottom out the spring. As you get to the lower mark turning the knob should become hard if it doesn't then replace the spring.

While the blade is tensioned and running if you stand to the right of the saw perpendicular to the slot in the table, looking at the flat of the blade do you see a slight backwards and forwards movement to the blade. If so this will cause the cut to wander also. If you see this check the play in the upper wheel. To do so put the saw under tension (not running) then alternately push on the wheel rim at the 3:00 and 9:00 positions. If theres alot of play take the upper wheel off and the u channel it mounts to. Check the dog on the back side of the u channel that accepts the tension screw to insure its making positive contact with the rear channel. Mine was slightly off square and I had to file it flush. This may not make sense but once you look at the mechanism it will.

After doing the above mine was much better, not perfect but acceptable. I did talk to other s45 owners with like problems and they all suggested changing the tires. They stated even though the tires look good it could be that the rubber has hardened or wore unevenly. I sold the saw about a month ago but I think they were right. If you decide to replace the tires get the rubber ones form Carter products NOT the urethane. The other owners I talked to said this made the biggest improvement.

Good Luck Mike

[Brad Noble]

Brad
I had the same saw and went through the same problems your describing, here are couple thoughts.

After doing the above mine was much better, not perfect but acceptable. I did talk to other s45 owners with like problems and they all suggested changing the tires. They stated even though the tires look good it could be that the rubber has hardened or wore unevenly. I sold the saw about a month ago but I think they were right. If you decide to replace the tires get the rubber ones form Carter products NOT the urethane. The other owners I talked to said this made the biggest improvement.
Good Luck Mike

Wow, excellant advise in here. I will print this out and follow the steps and see if I can make my saw better. Thank you Mike for your time and efforts.

Brad

[Ted Pritchard]

As the title implies, I have an older model (around 1993 I think) MiniMax S-45. I have to admit that when I first got it (bought it used) it seemed to work OK. Then I decided to get some new blades. I bought some Timberwolf blades on the recomendations of others I had spoken to. Then I started to have problems with blade drift and the inability to resaw a simple 12" long board maybe 6-8" wide from one end thru the other without a variance of at least 1/8".

OK, I convinced myself it was the fault of the blades (unfairly) and replaced my 3/4" 4 tpi Timberwolf blade with a (Highland Hardware) Woodslicer 3/4" 4 tpi blade. ----------- Same problem.

Have spent hours adjusting the fence for blade drift, spent complete afternoons working with blade tensioning according to the instructions from MiniMax USA and I have adjusted and re-adjusted the guides (roller bearing style). I have cleaned the tires and inspected them very closely and can find nothing wrong yet I know there is. The blade(s) track very well when I have changed them with little to no effort so I am assuming that the wheels are co-planer to each other.

Ideas? Help.

Brad

Brad

I have an S45 and like you have spent quite a deal of time fizzing about tuning it. The S45 doesn't have a camber on the wheels so adjust the tracking so that the teeth just clear the edge of the top wheel.
I've found that it works much better with a blade that has as few teeth possible - indeed the impact of changing is quite startling. For ripping in material > 1.5" I'm currently using a 3/4" x 0.032" x 1tpi with gullets that are an awe inspiring 0.25" deep. It just slides through 8" hardwood boards . I can easily remove veneers < 1/16" and the cuts are dead straight.
From this experience I think it must be a question of too many teeth and small gullets causes a heat build up and some differential expansion in the band that causes it to wander. Maybe the camber-less wheels are less able to compensate than the cambered variety.
Try a thicker band for additional beam strength and fewer teeth.

Ted

[Bert Solis]

As the title implies, I have an older model (around 1993 I think) MiniMax S-45. I have to admit that when I first got it (bought it used) it seemed to work OK. Then I decided to get some new blades. I bought some Timberwolf blades on the recomendations of others I had spoken to. Then I started to have problems with blade drift and the inability to resaw a simple 12" long board maybe 6-8" wide from one end thru the other without a variance of at least 1/8".

OK, I convinced myself it was the fault of the blades (unfairly) and replaced my 3/4" 4 tpi Timberwolf blade with a (Highland Hardware) Woodslicer 3/4" 4 tpi blade. ----------- Same problem.

Have spent hours adjusting the fence for blade drift, spent complete afternoons working with blade tensioning according to the instructions from MiniMax USA and I have adjusted and re-adjusted the guides (roller bearing style). I have cleaned the tires and inspected them very closely and can find nothing wrong yet I know there is. The blade(s) track very well when I have changed them with little to no effort so I am assuming that the wheels are co-planer to each other.

Ideas? Help.

Brad
MiniMax S 45 Problems got my eye. I see that you posted a while back, I am new to this posting. How did you install a 3/4 inch blade?. I tried and could not get the blade to go into the bottom top slot. I hope someone sees this that can help with the install.

[Bert Solis]

As the title implies, I have an older model (around 1993 I think) MiniMax S-45. I have to admit that when I first got it (bought it used) it seemed to work OK. Then I decided to get some new blades. I bought some Timberwolf blades on the recomendations of others I had spoken to. Then I started to have problems with blade drift and the inability to resaw a simple 12" long board maybe 6-8" wide from one end thru the other without a variance of at least 1/8".

OK, I convinced myself it was the fault of the blades (unfairly) and replaced my 3/4" 4 tpi Timberwolf blade with a (Highland Hardware) Woodslicer 3/4" 4 tpi blade. ----------- Same problem.

Have spent hours adjusting the fence for blade drift, spent complete afternoons working with blade tensioning according to the instructions from MiniMax USA and I have adjusted and re-adjusted the guides (roller bearing style). I have cleaned the tires and inspected them very closely and can find nothing wrong yet I know there is. The blade(s) track very well when I have changed them with little to no effort so I am assuming that the wheels are co-planer to each other.

Ideas? Help.

Brad
MiniMax S45 problems got my eye. How did you install a 3/4 inch blade?.
I tried to put one in but could not get the blade to go through the bottom slot.
I had to go back to 1/2 inch, it is working ok but I am trying to make some blanks for turning for the summer season. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
Bert

[Bert Solis]

Hello:
Help, I am trying to install a wide blade in a MiniMax S45 bandsaw, but unable to do so. The blade is 3/4 3 TPI but it wont fit in the bottom slot, I went back to a 1/2 inch and no problem with that.
Thank you in advance for your promt reply.
Bert