To Festool, or not to Festool: Router Considerations

[John Maeda]

Hi everybody :)
I've been having a long week wrestling with this question.

I'm a new woodworker and own a festool ts55 saw, my first real powertool, and was looking into getting a router. I don't see myself using a router very much outside of what I normally use my saw for (cutting down sheet goods).

I was imagining i'd use it for edge work, arcrylic flush trimming, and laminate trimming, but it's really hard to say what i'll really use it for once I have it.

That being said, should I bother spending the 3x cost of a matching systainer and tool i can nary afford? There's no need to convince me of the green and dark blue quality, i'm already VERY convinced.

I plan on buying another festool in the NEAR future(this week), and am just trying to make up my mind on WHAT to get. 150/5 Sander, MFT, or 1010 Router.....

One thing i am sure about is I NEED a router... but is the festool really a smart choice in this decision?

[Narayan Nayar]

The good thing about Festool is that it's a system in which individual components which function really well on their own use shared components which enhance the performance/experience of working across tools.

The bad thing about Festool is that it's a system for which the benefits of an enhanced cross-tool experience become immediately obvious after the first purchase. Then it gets dangerous financially. :rolleyes:

I have the OF1400. I've had a couple of Porter Cables (a D-handle, which I no longer own, and a 7518, which is in my router table), a really nice Bosch plunge router w/ a Pat Warner base, and an OF1400. I use it with the rails from the TS-55 and with a CT-22.

I'm investing in Festool mostly because even beyond the excellent tool performance, the dust collection is superb. I have asthma and that means something to me. I still wear a mask, but I have relatively nothing to sweep off the floor even after very intense router passes.

The Bosch is a great router; if you're looking outside Festool I'd highly recommend it and could probably be talked out of the one I have. But I almost always reach for the Festool. If you don't already have a vacuum, get one. It'll be a great addition to your TS-55, potentially your Festool router, and all the other Festools which are inevitably in your future. :)

[jason lambert]

I also have a OF1400 I would sugest that instead of the 1010, the 1010 can not use 1/2 bits. As far as a router that is hands down the best and dust collection is awesome.

However one of my favorite things is a router table. Before the festool I had a Bosh 1617evs with several bases a regular base a plunge base etc and would use the router in the table (for dados drawlocks etc) and in the bases. This was the most economincal solution now my bosh is strictly in the table. I do not know if you can mount the festool in a table I haven't tried. Just something to consider.

[JayStPeter]

Can't say for sure because I don't know what you plan to build. But, I can say that the OF1010 is a small router. It can't handle 1/2 shank bits, so you are somewhat limited there. If that's OK for what you do, then all is good and I'm sure it's a nice router. I have an OF1400, but I also have a Bosch 1617 and each sees equal amounts of use based on what I'm doing at the time.
My opinion is that the 55 saw and ETS 150 sanders are world beaters. The router has some nice features I like, but doesn't stand as high above the competition. The MFT is good if you don't already have work surfaces, a big table saw, and/or sliding compound miter saw (or other saw with decent cross cut capability). Since my shop is relatively complete in that sense, my MFT isn't as important to me as it is to some others. The drills are also nice, so you may want to add one of those to your list ;) :cool:.
I would get one of the dual base router kits first so you have a base that can mounted to a table and the ability to use 1/2" bits (Bosch, PC, DW all make decent ones for ~$200). That plus the myriad of accessories available for them at reasonable cost make them more flexible. The OF1xxx routers really aren't good for table use. But again, it depends on what you do and what your aspirations are. If you do mostly site work (putting bull-nose profiles on stair treads or something like that) the OF might be the best choice. But if you eventually want to use door profile bits and such, the Festool would be a bad choice (with the possible exception of the new 2200).

[Greg Peterson]

If money were no object, Festool would be at or near the top of the list for their respective tools. Never hear anything unkind or negative about Festool. What I've seen at wood shows is impressive too.

However, most folks have to factor in a return on investment. That is unless you have won a Megabucks lottery. In which case you definitely have money burning a hole in your pocket.

If you are making a living with these tools, then the ROI would occur in a shorter period of time than if you are an occasional or even frequent hobbyist.

A hobbyist will likely have a different means of assessing ROI. It might boil down to the pleasure the quality of the tool provides will justify the cost. Or the dust collection. Or even the status of owning a Festool unit. All of these are normal means of determining ROI. Each person has to decide for themselves the monetary worth of these attributes.

Professionals will likely have a different measure of ROI. Quality, durability and dust collection are likely primary matters. Quality means repeat business or good references. Durability means the tool is less likely to breakdown on the job (time is money). Dust collection means more time working, less time cleaning (again, time is money).

What attributes does the Festool router have that competitor units lack, and what are those features worth to you?

[John Maeda]

Well, I find that with more tools, I build more stuff. :D

As of right now I build bookshelves, tables and a lot of modern style'd aquarium furniture for others.

I'm pretty sure all I need a router for is edge work, like flushing up acrylic 90 degree joints, and trimming edges on very simple cabinets and stands. Lots of round-overs. Lots and lots.

[Greg Cole]

John,
If you really want to get into woodworking in any capacity, a router is a must. Once you have one, you'll find more uses for it that I can list now.... they are handy little suckers.
There are alot of good brands of routers on the market. I'd stack of systainers too.... but thats one pricey wish. Buy a middle of the road one and get some bits etc for it. If you get into using a router, then maybe save your dollars for one of the Festool offerings.
Greg,
Megabucks... you must be in New England. Haven't heard that term since I lived in VT going on a decade ago now.

Cheers.

Greg

[Chris Padilla]

Funny thing, I have just about everything from Festool...except their routers! Otherwise, I have a little Bosch Colt, and my other 3 routers are all from PC: 690, 890, and the variable-speed 3.25" HP (7518) one in my router table. I guess I was just outfitted fine with routers and didn't need to go with F.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Hi everybody :)
...I was imagining i'd use it for edge work, arcrylic flush trimming, and laminate trimming, but it's really hard to say what i'll really use it for once I have it....

Based on the uses you anticipate, I would recommend purchasing a trim router, like the Bosch Colt. A trim router handles ONLY 1/4" shaft bits, but it does the tasks you mentioned well. Many woodworkers wind up with at least one small router and one larger one. Start small, spend a modest amount of money, buy bits as you need them, and add a bigger router (like a Festool OF1400) at a later date. I have the Festool OF1400 router, and think it is a wonderful router. But if I were you, I'd start with the Bosch Colt. Buying a Festool OF1010 as your first router is a pretty big expense at $360 (after April 1), especially for a router that does not offer a 1/2" collet. Adding the edge routing accessories to the OF1010 adds another $200 or so. A Bosch Colt with Pat Warner's offset base is well under $200 total.

[JayStPeter]

Well, I find that with more tools, I build more stuff. :D

As of right now I build bookshelves, tables and a lot of modern style'd aquarium furniture for others.

I'm pretty sure all I need a router for is edge work, like flushing up acrylic 90 degree joints, and trimming edges on very simple cabinets and stands. Lots of round-overs. Lots and lots.

The first two paragraphs make me think you will eventually want to table mount a router. If the last paragraph is true, the OF1010 would do the job. But the more you do, the more capability you'll want. For a furniture maker, I think the OF1010 could be limiting as your only router. My Festool router is great at the things it does well. But, my Bosch is pretty darn good at everything. Starting out, I'd want something that can do everything and then upgrade to tools that excel at specific tasks later.
Even if you think the task list you gave is all you'll ever do, one of the tasks you mention that my Bosch excels at is edge routing. I haven't used a 1010, but I can say the 1400 is far less stable along an edge. I imagine the lighter 1010 is better than the 1400, but I doubt it is better than the Bosch (or just about any other router that comes with a fixed base for lower CG). I agree with David that a trim router might be even better for the limited task list you gave.

[Jason White]

I'm a Festool-a-holic, so I can't believe I'm saying this, but...

If you're not going to be using a router very often, don't buy a Festool.

There are lots of other great router options for much less money that include respectable dust collection.

Jason


Hi everybody :)
I've been having a long week wrestling with this question.

I'm a new woodworker and own a festool ts55 saw, my first real powertool, and was looking into getting a router. I don't see myself using a router very much outside of what I normally use my saw for (cutting down sheet goods).

I was imagining i'd use it for edge work, arcrylic flush trimming, and laminate trimming, but it's really hard to say what i'll really use it for once I have it.

That being said, should I bother spending the 3x cost of a matching systainer and tool i can nary afford? There's no need to convince me of the green and dark blue quality, i'm already VERY convinced.

I plan on buying another festool in the NEAR future(this week), and am just trying to make up my mind on WHAT to get. 150/5 Sander, MFT, or 1010 Router.....

One thing i am sure about is I NEED a router... but is the festool really a smart choice in this decision?

[Greg Peterson]

John,

Greg,
Megabucks... you must be in New England. Haven't heard that term since I lived in VT going on a decade ago now.

Cheers.

Greg


Oregon actually. I don't dabble in the lottery. I spend all my spare money in woodworking thinking I'll get rich selling my work! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Jim Becker]

John, I own both the OF1010 and the OF1400. They are both incredible machines. Smooth, comfortable to use, quieter than my other routers, excellent dust collection, too, when doing things like edges, etc. If you do decide to go this way, I agree that you'll want to consider the OF1400 as a "first machine" since it supports 1/4", 8mm and 1/2" cutters.

I'll also weigh in that IMHO, one of the multi-base kits from Dewalt (I have the DW618), PC (890 series) and some others offer a lot of functionality for the money, especially as a first or only router setup.

[John Maeda]

Thanks for all the replies guys,
I love festool, and after trying the 1010 it's incredible, but for my limited usage I think I might be better off spending the money on other must have tools (CLAMPS! and/or a 150/5 or a mft (i have no miter saw, table saw, or work space)).

Between my saw, a bucket o'clamps, a pocket hole jig, and a small router I think I can get a lot of what I want done.

I can always spray paint my stuff dark blue + green for now :p, until I find a real NEED to buy a 1010 or 1400...

One thing I forgot to mention is that, i'm very limited on space, so a table is out of the question.

[Jeff Booth]

I have 3 Bosch routers (all electronic variable speed) and dream of the 1400 and 1010 in my sleep. Contrary to other users I hate the Bosch Colt. Well maybe that is a little bit strong, the motor is smooth, the collet wrench and lock control are too small and the height adjustment is miserable. I work for Bosch, I get their routers at a steep discount and nonetheless I will replace my colt with a 1010 someday hopefully soon. I also have the 1613, I'm no huge fan of that one either, again the motor is sweet but the mechanicals are crap. I have the 1617 and that thing is a gem, I use it in my table and would rather have no other. The vertical adjustment is easy, precise and solid and of course the motor with the soft start and variable speed is really nice.

But for hand routing I have played on some scrap with the Festool versions at the store enough to know that they are so so so so so so much nicer than anything else I have ever used for hand held use. If you already have the rail for your plunge saw then to me it is a no-brainer. hard decision is only the size, probably the 1400 is right, but the 1010 is soooo nimble in the hands.

I purchased a Domino a while back and I am a convert. Just have to be sensible about switching over. But if I was in the new tool situation it would be a no brainer.

My $0.02

Jeff

[John Maeda]

I have 3 Bosch routers (all electronic variable speed) and dream of the 1400 and 1010 in my sleep. Contrary to other users I hate the Bosch Colt. Well maybe that is a little bit strong, the motor is smooth, the collet wrench and lock control are too small and the height adjustment is miserable. I work for Bosch, I get their routers at a steep discount and nonetheless I will replace my colt with a 1010 someday hopefully soon. I also have the 1613, I'm no huge fan of that one either, again the motor is sweet but the mechanicals are crap. I have the 1617 and that thing is a gem, I use it in my table and would rather have no other. The vertical adjustment is easy, precise and solid and of course the motor with the soft start and variable speed is really nice.

But for hand routing I have played on some scrap with the Festool versions at the store enough to know that they are so so so so so so much nicer than anything else I have ever used for hand held use. If you already have the rail for your plunge saw then to me it is a no-brainer. hard decision is only the size, probably the 1400 is right, but the 1010 is soooo nimble in the hands.

I purchased a Domino a while back and I am a convert. Just have to be sensible about switching over. But if I was in the new tool situation it would be a no brainer.

My $0.02

Jefff

You're not making this easier jeff. :D

I mainly considered the 1010 because the 1/4" or better yet 8mm is not a problem for me (yet i suspect?). I don't own a single router bit, and i'm only really interested in round-overs, flush, and straight bits.

We'll see. It's not a question of money, but I hardly make anything more then minimum wage. I usually save and scrimp every bit to buy the one perfect tool which is why I too lose sleep over decisions like this.

Can you use the 1010 as a fixed base by plunging all the way in and locking it down with the knob?

[Jeff Booth]

I am not sure about locking the knob and using it as a fixed base, basically from what I saw the height adjust happens when the knob is unlocked. There is a fine tune but that is pretty limited in extent.

Are you wondering about mounting it in a table? I see that as a different animal, in that case I want power, variable speed, bullet proof precise height adjustment and quiet if possible. Ok, the collet needs be useable as well. But no plunge mechanism is necessary (I am sure other folks out there have good purpose to use plunge on a table, but not me, least not yet)

You know routers are lot like Polaroid cameras, the bits end up costing more than the router . I try to buy when they are on sale because there are often big price reductions on a particular popular bit just to get people into a store (straight bits, rabbetting, roundovers etc. for $5 or $10). But for those molding and other bigger purposebuilt bits they can cost a whole lot. $50 is not uncommon for a quality bit. I am sure I have $1000 in bits, that is more than 2 Festool routers:eek:.

[John Maeda]

Are you wondering about mounting it in a table?
I am sure I have $1000 in bits, that is more than 2 Festool routers:eek:.

A table is not an option for me given my limited space concerns, and I move around A LOT.

I'm just going to stick it out with as few bits as possible. Almost everything I build would seriously be covered with just a straight, flush, and round-over.

[Don Bullock]

Thanks for all the replies guys,
I love festool, and after trying the 1010 it's incredible, but for my limited usage I think I might be better off spending the money on other must have tools (CLAMPS! and/or a 150/5 or a mft (i have no miter saw, table saw, or work space)).

Between my saw, a bucket o'clamps, a pocket hole jig, and a small router I think I can get a lot of what I want done.

I can always spray paint my stuff dark blue + green for now :p, until I find a real NEED to buy a 1010 or 1400...

One thing I forgot to mention is that, i'm very limited on space, so a table is out of the question.

John as much as I like my Festool sander and am amazed at the quality, I think you made the right decision. For most of us a Festool router seems to be "overkill." Personally I'm leaning more to Norm's outlook on routers. have one set up for specific tasks. Like clamps, I don't think one can have too many routers.

[Mark Valsi]

I just bought the 1010 and love it for what I need.

This is the router I use for inlays and light work. DOn't need the 1/2 inch bits.

Love the maching, easy to use, and dust collection is amazing !

[J. Z. Guest]

Well, I find that with more tools, I build more stuff. :D

As of right now I build bookshelves, tables and a lot of modern style'd aquarium furniture for others.

I'm pretty sure all I need a router for is edge work, like flushing up acrylic 90 degree joints, and trimming edges on very simple cabinets and stands. Lots of round-overs. Lots and lots.

John, what do you use for a workbench, if a router table is not an option? Sawhorses and a piece of plywood? In Bill Hylton's router book, he shows how to make a small router table that clamps in your bench vise. When you're done, you unclamp it and stow it.

If your work space is big enough for a Festool circ saw & guide, it is big enough for a small workbench & router table.

If you have a pocket hole jig, you can get a lot done without clamps. If you don't have one. I have a spare one I'll give you if you just pay shipping. It is a generic one, never used. You'd need a step drill bit and the proper screws.

For your uses, it doesn't appear that a Festool router is justified. You can get a basic, used, top-quality Porter*Cable 690 router for well under $100 that will do everything you need. As you need more, add a separate electronic speed control. ($30-40)

Another option, possibly an alternate to the pocket screw jig, is a Dowelmax. But then you'd need clamps too. Jorgensen makes some good quality affordable ones, which I have a slew of. (on the order of $13 ea.)
Pony pipe clamps are also affordable & high quality. They're also American made, if that matters to you. If it doesn't, buy a bunch of Chinese ones and it will, hehehe.

Well good luck. Try not to get so blinded by the pretty tools around here that you forget what it is all about and how little you need to make good stuff.

[John Maeda]

John, what do you use for a workbench, if a router table is not an option? Sawhorses and a piece of plywood? In Bill Hylton's router book, he shows how to make a small router table that clamps in your bench vise. When you're done, you unclamp it and stow it.
If you don't have one. I have a spare one I'll give you if you just pay shipping.

Another option, possibly an alternate to the pocket screw jig, is a Dowelmax. But then you'd need clamps too. Jorgensen makes some good quality affordable ones, which I have a slew of. (on the order of $13 ea.)
Pony pipe clamps are also affordable & high quality. They're also American made, if that matters to you. If it doesn't, buy a bunch of Chinese ones and it will, hehehe.

Well good luck. Try not to get so blinded by the pretty tools around here that you forget what it is all about and how little you need to make good stuff.

I use 2 corners of a cement wall, and an ever changing piece of scrap ply.

My workspace is a large back patio, but I live with a ton(6) of other people where my good tools would disappear, or be put to use without my knowing and subsequently ruined... so any permanent fixture (like a table) would not work out. Yes, i'm also in the process of find a new place to live.

I've already got the festool sickness, and its terminal i'm afraid, and I think i'll be spending my budget on sander over a router. I hate my RO with a passion.

I'll buy a cheap(er) router and hope my other tools don't glare at me.

Thanks for the offer on the pocket hole jig, but I have one. I bought a Kreg jig a little while back, after discovering it lurking these forums. I love it.

As far as clamps go, i've started collecting the 5$ mini bessey's for light glue work, already own a couple of tradesmen and will be stepping up for a small set of parallel clamps (when the budget dictates). I've had previous experience with the red B doing other things other then woodworking and love them.


on a side note:
My better-half thinks I should get the festool and quit fussing. She loves the saw and the modular approach to the whole set.

[J. Z. Guest]

My better-half thinks I should get the festool and quit fussing. She loves the saw and the modular approach to the whole set.
Isn't it funny that it is always the women who NEVER give in to cheapness?

Still, if you're on a tight budget, and your work has to wait for you to buy top-of-the-line tools, I think that is a mistake. Then, you're just a tool collector in the meantime.

You can only build so many bookcases. ;)

[jason lambert]

I hate giving difinitive advice and this is what I would do but in this thread I think it warrents it. It sounds like you are new to routers and have not even considered a table. Most of the round overs I do are in the table it is safer faster and easer and you can not do it once the project is fully assembled because you can not get into cornors. Also if you want to do a 1/4 slot for plywood or doors that is all done in a table and any small pieces.

I woud got a bosh colt or the ridge trimmer for small stuff and lamination trimming, this will handle 1/4 bits only, but be handy and easy to handle. Next the small Triton Router to use free hand and in a table. The Triton seems to be what every one is going with because you don't need a lift in the table it is built into the router it also has almost no runout, anyhow I won't get into the technical details that make this a great tool. Then get a router table of whatever flaver you like, I like the craig ones right now. You could do all this for under $500 and have 3 great set up's. and have 2 routers for small stuff and something that can plow a 3/4 dado for plywood or make a raised panel door if needed.

[Jim Becker]

The OF1010 and OF1400 are not generally recommended as table mounted routers...they are optimized for hand-held use.

To the OP, space doesn't have to be an issue for having a router table and frankly, you need one to do certain types of work and use certain types of cutters. There have been plenty of portable and knock down router table designs shown by the magazines and in router-focused books that will serve that purpose well when space is constrained. And a multi-base router kid, like the DW618 that I mentioned in my previous post can gain even more versatility when you mount one of the bases for table use (usually the fixed base) and use the plunge (and D-handle based if included) for hand-held operations.

[Jesse Cloud]

I have replaced all my routers, except the one in the table with Festool and I love it. If you are mainly working outdoors, the dust might not be a big issue for you. Though routers make a lot of dust and cleanup will be a drag.

I think the Festool routers are great machines, but the Festool sander is wayyyy better than other sanders and the MFT is unique. You might want to buy a used router off craigslist or somewhere and put the savings toward an MFT or a sander.

[John Maeda]

Gloat time. :)
So, after following the advice in this thread, I ended up with a hitachi fixed base.

I also got a call from my father today, which he asked me if I was planning on buying anything online any time soon because he had a 25$ amazon gift card
he didn't want/need.
I ended up with one CHEAP router for experimenting with.

On the greener side, I spent my router budget on a 150/5. After doing the math I also kinda, sorta, went way over budget and accidentally clicked the link to combo it with a midi vac. I also accidentally entered my banking information, and accidentally got it shipped to my house. :D:D:D

So I went a little over budget, but I sold a few car parts laying around the house that should cover the vac, and will eat sandwiches for this month. Thanks everyone.

[Jim Becker]

John, I think that's a major gloat, but you'll need to prove it with pictures... ;)

[J. Z. Guest]

Congratulations John. Just don't bruise yourself too badly when you roll over on it in bed tonight, hehehe.

I think you went the right way, getting the Festool sander & vac i/o the router.

[Don Bullock]

Congratulations John. That accidently clicking on a link sounds great to me. I wonder if that will work with SWMBO. You made some wise choices. Now, we need to see pictures when they come.

[Steven Wilson]

My first router was the PC690 kit (fixed and plung bases) and that still my goto fixed base router. I use a PC7518 in the router table and not too long ago I picked up a Festool 1010. I picked up the Festool for doing 32mm cabinets and it works great for that. The router itself is a great, small plunge router and has become my router of choice when I need a plunge router. Not having 1/2" capacity isn't an issue for me. I rather like 8mm bits and started using them when I bought my Leigh dovetail jig years back. Being small it's a very nice sized router to use. When I need a 1/2" bit I have other choices. The 1400 is a more capable router but it's larger and I just prefer using the 1010.

[John Maeda]

I'm thinking I may end up doing it this way as well. IT seems like there are so many routers to pick from and none of them are perfect for everything.

Pictures will be posted when my mad spending spree package arrives. :D

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I used to chuckle about folks having "several" routers...but now I understand much better as lately, there have been several occasions where it's been extra convenient and efficient to have a few routers with particular setups. When I was doing the cabinetry for the new wet bar in the addition, I had my DW618 plunge base setup for use with the shelf hole jig, the OF1010 setup for flush trim and the OF1400 setup with a rabbiting bit. I had something in the table router (PC7518), too, but I don't remember what. Only the old PC7529 was left in the cabinet...and it, too, got pulled out to do a quick circle cutting job for a friend in the same time period. So....while most often, one router with multiple bases can "do the job", it sure is convenient to have more than one!

I no longer chuckle at the idea of a "router collection".

Congrats on your Festool haul!