Planer and/or Drum Sander Question

[Paul Greathouse]

It's getting time to make some long overdue purchases and the more I do searches and read threads the more confused I get as to what I want to do.

I've been reading alot on this forum about the glass smooth finishes that people are getting with spiral cutterheads on their planers. I had originally planned on getting a 15" planer and a 26" drum sander mostly for general planing of hardwood and sanding of glue-up hardwood panels.

I do mostly cabinet and casework and will be transitioning into doing some cabinet work as a side income so I need to speed up my process by upgrading my tools.

Does anyone use a large planer (20" or larger) with a spiral head to plane glue-ups and then go straight to the RO sander instead of using a drum sander? If the finish would be good enough with this method I could save myself some money by not getting the drum sander and be able to use that savings to purchase an even better/larger planer.

If the above senerio is not viable then I will just go with a 15" planer with a spiral head. Right now I am looking at the Grizzly planers and the Steel City 26" drum sander. Any suggestions on alternatives to these machines?

[Joe Jensen]

Disclaimer: I don't have a drum sander

I do have a great planer with a Byrd head. I get zero tearout. I can't imaging something that came out of my planer needing drum sanding. I start with 120 orbital on panels out of the planer. Having said that, IMHO you must have a planer that has a heavy chip breaker in front (ideally close to the knives) of the cutterhead, and a pressure bar behind. I haven't looked lately, but 15 years ago when I bought my planer, most of the inexpensive 4 post import planers lacked a pressure bar. Also, the planer must get very well adjusted. You must use a dial indicator. I have all measurements on my planer +/- .0005". This took me several hours on initial setup. I used to spend at least 2-3 hours changing knives to get it that close, but now with the Byrd head I won't. I've helped friends set their planers up, and trust me, if not well adjusted, planers leave nasty output. But it the planer has all the right elements, and it's adjusted really well, you don't need more than ROS after.

On the Byrd head. I no longer even think about grain orientation. If I were using a wide planer to flatten glue ups, then I would absolutely want a Byrd head, or I think you'd have enough tearout that you would have to wide belt of drum sand afterward.

If I were setting up to flatten panels, I'd get a 20" quality planer with a Byrd head. Actually when my shop space increases I'm planning on a old iron Powermatic 224 24" with a Byrd head....joe

[Jeff Duncan]

I've got 2 20" planers right now, one with a spiral head, and I also have a 24" dual drum sander. The short answer is you'll get a lot of use out of both. I run a lot of stuff through the drum sander after the planer as it's much quicker than just the ROS. Anything that's straight and flat for instance, baseboard, flat moldings, stiles and rails, can all go through the sander.
I also make all my own doors and drawers and the sander saves a lot of time. One thing I would point out is you should try to find someone local with a spiral head to see the surface yourself. I would never call the finish out of my planer glass smooth, and it does need a fair amount of sanding before finishing. But everyone has different levels of finish quality to their work so you should judge for yourself.
As far as brands I won't make any recommendations, I'll just say buy the best you can afford, used or new.

good luck,
JeffD

[Mark Singer]

I love my drum sander! I have a 16" MiniMax combo planer too. I could not work without either!

[Joe Chritz]

15" straight knife planer and a 24" dual drum here. I opted to use the upgrade money for a 20" and a spiral head to get a drum sander.

It isn't a wide belt (which I have within 8 miles I can rent) but it is infinitely useful for so many things.

If you do lots of case work with 5 piece doors you will love the drum sander. I wouldn't be comfy running a 5 panel door through a planer, even with a spiral head because of the cross grain section.

Other things are much easier also, like end grain cutting boards, narrow strips for laminations, shop sawn veneers, etc.

Someday I will likely get a spiral for the 15" planer but for now the drum works when needed. I am not full time production and if I was I would likely have both. Especially if I am paying someone else's wages.

Joe

[Joe Jensen]

Joe, sounds like you are running assembled doors throught the drum sander? Is this to get the rail/style joints flush? How hard is it to remove the cross grain sanding marks from the drum sander? thanks...joe


15" straight knife planer and a 24" dual drum here. I opted to use the upgrade money for a 20" and a spiral head to get a drum sander.

It isn't a wide belt (which I have within 8 miles I can rent) but it is infinitely useful for so many things.

If you do lots of case work with 5 piece doors you will love the drum sander. I wouldn't be comfy running a 5 panel door through a planer, even with a spiral head because of the cross grain section.

Other things are much easier also, like end grain cutting boards, narrow strips for laminations, shop sawn veneers, etc.

Someday I will likely get a spiral for the 15" planer but for now the drum works when needed. I am not full time production and if I was I would likely have both. Especially if I am paying someone else's wages.

Joe

[bob cohen]

Many of the sanders I've looked at allow you to run stock as short as 2 1/2 inches through it. Try that with a planer!

[Joe Chritz]

Joe I do run assembled door through the sander. Started a while ago renting time on a wide belt then I got my drum sander. The wide belt leaves fewer scratches since it is such a nice machine but even with the drum it isn't hard.

I run 100 and 120 grit on the drums. I used stroke sanding belts cut to fit the drums (you get 3 for the 24" from one big belt) and I ROS the rails with 80 grit. I switch to 120 and do the whole door as normal. Continue to whatever grit you would normally stop at. If you drop one grit is seems to make the scratches remove easy. Hickory and maple were a bit tougher but still much faster all around.

You have to remember with RP to make sure the panels are raised to be flush front and back if full thickness. Obviously flat panels are no problem. I just made some set up blocks that are at the right settings and I leave the material about .050 fat pre glue up.

I usually have the back flush as well and sand that all with the 6" and do the front with the 5" to keep from rounding anything over.

Joe

[Peter Quinn]

15" planer and a 22" performax pro here. I like having both. I can tune in loose tennons and splines to within thousands with the sander, tougher to do on my planer. For shop made veneer the sander is real handy where most planers would produce confetti.

I worked in a millwork shop with a 24" spiral head planer and a widebelt, seems there are uses for both machines in any event. I hate sanding out cross grain scratches, particularly on full size passage doors, and do everything in my power during construction to avoid drum sanding doors or face frames, sometimes it still happens.

I have yet to see a planer cut I would consider 'finish quality', though as per above post careful set up of the planer greatly effects cut quality. Of course the drum/widebelt sander isn't really a finish quality product IMO either, but it gets you closer than most planers. I could see a perfectly adjusted spiral head planer with sharp knives iliminating the need for drum sanding most panels, I just never seem to find mine in that condition!

[Jeff Duncan]

I use the DDS on doors also and have it setup for 100/150 on the sander then start at 120 on the ROS and sand up to whatever grit needed.
Removing cross grain scratches isn't that hard and is still much, much, faster and flatter than attempting to sand with just the ROS by itself.

good luck,
JeffD

[Gary Muto]

I have the Performax 22-44" Plus and really like it. It is slow as you will hear from many, but give great results, easy to set up and great dust collection. I was going to buy the 16-32" but for an extra $150 you get a beefier casting and a bigger motor (1 3/4 HP). I selected Performax becasue I liked the larger capacity, the sandsmart system and the stationary conveyor.

[Butch Edwards]

very interesting thread/comments.....makes me wish I actually had a shop with room for those tools...alas, I don't, but no complaints. Thanks for the information,fellows....I love readin' 'em!!!