Random Orbit Sanders: Where do they fit in?

[J. Z. Guest]

I currently have a Makita 3x18 belt sander and a Makita 1/4 sheet orbital finishing sander.

They do a good enough job. The belt sander for stock removal and leveling the occasional (OK frequent) mis-aligned panel glue up.

The finishing sander works well for finishing.

So where does the ROS fit in?

Could it replace a belt sander AND an orbital sander with the appropriate grit sandpaper?

For now, I kind of assume that it is not capable of such fast stock removal as a belt sander, and not capable of such fine work as the orbital sander, but I'm not sure.

I'm thinking of the 5" Bosch one that sells for about $70 in many places. (due to fine particle filtration) There's also the Makita, which comes with a molded case and some sanding discs, but I don't know whether that will be useful, or will just take up valuable shelf space. I'm thinking it will keep dust out of the motor when not in use, but then maybe not as much dust out of my lungs.

[Jim Becker]

I don't use a belt sander nor do I use a "finishing" sander...it's ROS all the way for me in addition to a block for hand sanding. Most ROS are not good for "heavy" stock removal like an orbital or belt sander, (the Festool Rotex being one exception) but excel at sanding up through the grits prior to finishing.

[Jim Andrew]

The cabinet shop where I worked used them as finish sanders. They are a lot quicker than your orbital, and it is hard to see the scratches they produce, as long as you use fine enough paper. If you use an orbital, they produce circles as well, so probably very similar, just faster. Hand sanding is the only way to get rid of the circles.

[Brandon Shew]

...it's ROS all the way for me .

Ditto that. As Jim mentioned, the ROS will not remove stock like a belt sander does

If anything, I would say that a ROS would replace the 1/4 sheet sander. With a ROS, you get the combination of the orbital action w/ pad rotation which is more effective than orbital alone and is less prone to leave swirl marks (especially w/ course grits). The dust extrction holes are also pre-punched on the ROS pads. Bosch makes a good one.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I use a belt sander a lot (I was behind one about an hour and a half this afternoon). Good for fast stock removal and leveling. Using a ROS or 1/4 sheet sander can be frustrating when trying to level out joints, etc. I sand and sand and just have a rounded step. :mad: (Guess I shoulda made it right to start with, huh? :o ) But using a belt sander in those circumstances can easily lead to disaster in a New York minute.

About the only time I prefer a quarter sheet sander is easing edges, sanding narrow stock or getting into spots too tight for a ROS.

Tool story: A friend who manages a local lumberyard was in Houston for a trade show several years ago and talking to a Makita rep. The Makita tool rep turned on a 1/4 sheet sander, put it on the floor, and told Harvey, "Stand on it." Harvey looked at him and said, "Huh?" After being sure he heard him right and it being the Makita rep's tool he did it. Harvey told me with his 250 pounds perched on it the sander just kept going.

[Bob Aquino]

The 5" sanders will do a quicker job of removing stock than a 1/4 sheet pad sander, but nothing close to a belt sander. Now if you want to get close to a belt sander, look at one of the 6" dual orbit sanders such as the Festool Rotax or the Bosch 1250. I have the Bosch, its very fast at removing material especially at the wide orbit setting. It doesnt come with a dust bag, though it is designed for collection through a vac. Really very similar to the Festool, but at 100 bucks cheaper. Made in Germany or Switzerland, cant remember which. I rarely pull out a belt sander anymore, no need and the big 6" sander is much less apt to gouge the work than the belt will.

I have a 5" makita ros, I would look elsewhere, it will numb your hand it buzzes so much and the dust collection with the bag is so so. The 5" bosch sanders at least have an adapter that lets you hook them to a vac hose easer than the makita.

[J. Z. Guest]

Richard:

I was behind a belt sander for a few hours this weekend too. I did a panel glue-up with pocket screws, and couldn't get it clamped so they didn't shift. (my clamps won't reach to the middle of the panel) After that, my back was pretty sore, as the belt sanders pulls against me the whole time.

I was wondering if a ROS would replace this with a coarse grit, maybe if it took a little longer, it would be worth it not to have a sore back. I wound up just using the belt sander as long as was aboslutely necessary, then going to my orbital with 60 grit. This worked pretty well. They sand amazingly fast with such coarse paper. So that made me wonder again if a ROS with 60 grit would replace the belt sander with 150 grit? (a belt sander makes gouges way too deep with coarse grit paper)

I'm leaning toward the Bosch with the vacuum adapter, as that seems like the only real way to tame the dust on ROS's. The Germans seem to give more thought to dust collection than others do.

[Matthew Poeller]

Not to sound too stir up a bees nest but I was an only power tool kinda guy up until a few weeks ago. I have alway had trouble with glue-ups, same as what you are saying.

The thing that I found that works even better than any of the sanders mentioned, a hand plane. Once I learned how to sharpen and somewhat adjust it (I am still learning) it works better than any sander than I currently have in the shop (2 ROS sanders, Finishing, Belt, Mouse and the Porter Cable mouse equivalent).

I hope this does not stir up a bees nest, just what I have found in the past few weeks.

[Brian Kent]

I'm with you Matthew. Use what works - and often that is human-powered tools.

[J. Z. Guest]

Matthew: I was thinking of this in the back of my mind. I have a cheapo block plane and was thinking of maybe some day getting an old Stanley or new Lie-Nielson or Lee Valley smooth plane. But I'm kind of scared of the sharpening and sole-flattening. It seems like a lot of time & effort. Plus, I have two chisels and my one plane iron just sitting there waiting to be sharpened right now. They've been sitting for weeks. I know I just need to get out & do it, but it's hard to do, since sand paper needs so little sharpening. ;)

[Prashun Patel]

I have the Bosch ROS. IMHO, they EXCEL in the leveling misaligned pockethole joints. In a faceframe, the grains cross @ 90deg, which makes it tricky to use a belt sander. An ROS does a fine job here.

About the only place I'd use a belt sander is for stripping work or prepping a deck.

I recently got a set of Microplane sanding discs. If you need beefier stock removal, check these out for yr ROS. I prefer to finish with 220 regular paper (the fine Mplane doesn't seem to get smooth enough).

[Matthew Poeller]

Jeremy,

I was not joking about the only a few weeks.

See this:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=77943

I do not have a ton of time to do that sort of stuff either. But it only takes a day or so to go through the gammit and then you will have a tool for life. The most annoying part of it is the blade and sharpening. Mainly making a crappy old blade usable again. If you an concerned since this took me the most time, get an old stanley and bypass the sharpening of the old blade and just get a hock blade. Once they have been sharpened once the upkeep does not seem to be all that bad.

Contact John Dykes (on this forum) and maybe he can help you just like he did me.

Matt

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Jeremy,

Just getting back to this thread and found a statement addressed to me. I was belt-sanding a chest top. I've made what seems to me to be a warehousefull of chests but they've all been flat topped. This is the first one that has a dome or arch top. I cut the boards at a 4 1/2 degree angle and of course after the glueup had a series of ridges when the boards joined. I have laid in bed at night trying to come up with some kind of jig or cradle to hold a router to give a nice smooth roundover and finally 'just did it' and went back and forth, over and back and round and round with 80 grit on my 3x21 Bosch. Not completely finished yet but did a reasonable job.

The best example I can think of right now of using a belt sander to level work is in some of the craft stuff I used to do. I'd put screws in something and cover the screwhole with a plug and leave it a little proud of the surface and sand it down. If I took my 5" Bosch ROS it seemed I would sand and sand and sand some more and then run my finger over the plug and still feel it. Then look at the area in a raking light and see a dished-out area from the sanding. :mad: If I just touched it with a belt sander it would flush out. Would a heavier ROS using coarser grit do the job? Quite possibly, but I had the belt sander to do it. Just don't rock the thing or.... :mad::(:mad:

[Peter Quinn]

Funny story richard...My first job as a teenager was buffing the floors after school in the cafeteria. Imagine two guys, each standing on 3HP orbital buffers with the handles set in storage position (race mode I called it), a couple of 100' extension cords and a long hallway....no imagine the boss walking in as one guy crashes into a stack of folding chairs!

I like the festool 5" for ROS, much easier to use than the 1/4 sheet palm sander and quicker too. I have a bosch 1/4 sheet I still use occasionally, but at this point it collects more dust than it makes.

I've never had success leveling anything more than a wisper with a ROS, seems to create highs, lows and scallop effect. Of course I'm not to comfortable with a belt sander either. I use my belt sander for scribing and rough work.

[Jules Dominguez]

I have all three types, of various vintages. The belt sander is a very old Craftsman and I don't remember the last time I used it. I do remember screwing up a workpiece or two with it.

I get out both the ROS and the orbital sanders if I have any significant amount of sanding to do. The orbital is easier to control on narrow edges, and also does a reasonably quick job for the final power sanding stage on face surfaces.

If I didn't have the collection I do, I'd buy a good ROS and probably do the narrow edges by hand.

[josh bjork]

Matthew: I was thinking of this in the back of my mind. I have a cheapo block plane and was thinking of maybe some day getting an old Stanley or new Lie-Nielson or Lee Valley smooth plane. But I'm kind of scared of the sharpening and sole-flattening. It seems like a lot of time & effort. Plus, I have two chisels and my one plane iron just sitting there waiting to be sharpened right now. They've been sitting for weeks. I know I just need to get out & do it, but it's hard to do, since sand paper needs so little sharpening. ;)

i much prefer some sharpening to a mouthfull of dust and holding some screaming unpleasant tool that'll cobb up my work. I don't want to finish a flat piece and then be annoyed every time I see light reflect across it. That is my preference though, and you choose what is right for you.

[Bryan Berguson]

Jeremy,

I've had a Bosch ROS for 9 or 10 years. I'd be hard pressed to replace my belt sander with it. My orbital sander though hasn't been off the shelf since. You can do a fair bit of stock removal with the ROS using 80 (the biggest grit I have) and I'm sure even more with 60. I still use the belt though, especially for really hard wood like hickory.

I use my Bosch hooked up to a PC vac and can sand all day without a dust mask. Can't say that about the belt sander.:(

Bryan

[Greg Cole]

Matthew:I have a cheapo block plane and was thinking of maybe some day getting an old Stanley or new Lie-Nielson or Lee Valley smooth plane. But I'm kind of scared of the sharpening and sole-flattening. It seems like a lot of time & effort. Plus, I have two chisels and my one plane iron just sitting there waiting to be sharpened right now. They've been sitting for weeks. I know I just need to get out & do it, but it's hard to do, since sand paper needs so little sharpening. ;)

My ROS has a nice place in a drawer, where it sits unmollested for LONG periods of time (hasn't been used in at least 9 months :D). Sanding is the one thing about WW'ing I can't stand, can't say as any German made sander would make me like it... ain't happening. To quote a Neander Creeker, "sanding is the devil".
Sharpening is intimidating, but there's next to nothing to it. Many methods exist and many affordable jigs to help out. It's worth at least trying.... and if you want to read some amusing posts, check out some of the posts in the Neander forum about rehabing old planes..... all boiled down if you can get one in "decent" shape, it's not "that much" work to flatten a sole and put an edge on an iron. Seems like alot of effort, but you only need flatten a sole once in a very long time and a good edge on an iron will last a good while too. Shouldn't realistically take more than an hour to the flattening (if it really even needs it) & sharpening...
I guarantee you have spend at least an hour sanding your last project.
Perfect example: I took all the peices for a mahagony hall table from machine marks from planing & jointing to ready to finish in roughly 30 minutes with a smooth plane (#4) and a scraper, no noise, no dust (and NO dust in the open grain of the mahogany either!) and a very very nice finish.
Seriously, I truly believe all WW'ers should at least peek over the Neander cliff, there's more than one reason these tools are still being made and used today.

Greg

[Curt Doles]

I bought the Dewalt DW735 planer and as a bonus, it came with their ROS. I didn't use it for a year thinking it was similar to my pad sander.

The first time I used it I was amazed. I'd say it's between the pad sander and the belt in terms of stock removal.

It was on the same project I tried beeswax on some brass screws I was working too hard on to seat in oak. After waxing, my first thought was I had overdrilled the holes, they went in that easy.

Curt