Chainsaw advice needed . . . .

[Steven DeMars]

Hello Fellow Creekers !

This is my scenario. . . . My wife & I each have a JET MINI, "ton$" of tools, many videos and many books . . . . We also bought a 14" band saw.. . .We were all gung-ho, went to a local turners club several times, watched and learned what we could. We have played with the lathes, but have yet to make the first bowl, plate or box. . . .Why, we have nothing to turn . . . Tried buying wood, that was a waste of time . . . So we realized we needed a chainsaw . . .

What we decided on was a Stihl 361 with a 25" bar. We are thinking that this way whenever we see a tree downed perhaps we can stop and get ourselves a little. Providing the tree service or the customer doesn't mind. Any suggestions as to chainsaw selection or best way to get turning wood will be appreciated. I live in south Louisiana . . . not even sure what grows here naturally that would be good to turn . . .

[Thomas Bennett]

and ask for some of their "outs"- rejects, log ends, etc... what they probably throw away daily you could use for ever.

[Christopher Zona]

You'll probably get many answers to this question. We all have our saw preferences and all for very good reasons. The saw you have chosen is a good one. It has great power and a long enough bar to get into any piece that will come you way. With that bar and some skill, in time, you will be able to handle a 48" diameter piece without a problem.

Always make good contacts with tree services and your local municipality. Developers are a good source also. Many times when land is developed, the trees are clear cut and sent to the chipper.

Now, getting to Prairieville. Lousiana has a large amount of softwoods if I remember correctly, but I was over near Leesville about 20 years, but don't let that discourage you. I think you'll find that there is a larger selection of hardwoods than you may realize. In fact, you have some amazing native hardwoods.

Another great source is any kind of sawmill. You'd be amazed at what they consider scrap and throw onto the burn pile because they need the space.

Happy hunting.

Check out these links:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/rdsduse/la.htm

http://www.urbanforestry.subr.edu/green/

[Bernie Weishapl]

Steven the Stihl you got is a good saw and a good choice. I have the Stihl M360 with a 18" bar and I am extremely happy with it. Haven't had any troubles with it starting cold or hot.

[Tom Keen]

Im on my second Stihl.. the first one lasted 20 years. Cant beat the quality. If you havent used a chain saw very much I would suggest something a little smaller - blade wise. More power is fine, but that big blade may be overkill. I have the 290 farm boss. It came standard with a 20 inch blade and I swapped it for an 18 and use an aggresive chain. I find it more than enough saw for my needs - it gets used alot.

Tom

[Steven DeMars]

Im on my second Stihl.. the first one lasted 20 years. Cant beat the quality. If you havent used a chain saw very much I would suggest something a little smaller - blade wise. More power is fine, but that big blade may be overkill. I have the 290 farm boss. It came standard with a 20 inch blade and I swapped it for an 18 and use an aggresive chain. I find it more than enough saw for my needs - it gets used alot.

Tom

I'll do some research, perhaps I'm thinking about this wrong. I was under the impression that your bar needed to be as long the section of log you were halving & then quartering. . . .Maybe I need to locate some videos, U-Tubes of someone harvesting wood for turning . . . I thought it was rather large in the store, that is why I waited to buy until I heard from you guys . . .

[Frank Parker]

I have that saw and I love it. On average I cut 10000 to 15000 pounds of wood for turning each year, I share it with my club and friends. I've had it for 2 or 3 years and I've never had a single problem with it. I've worn out several chains and the oringinal bar's showing alot of wear. I personaly like the longer bar and I run a skip tooth chain alot fewer teeth to sharpen. You can cut smaller logs with a longer bar, but you can't cut larger logs with a small bar.
Just my opinion,
Frank

[jack richington]

Yes you can cut small with a long bar...but come on guys,, he's never used a chainsaw before..that bar is so long he's gonna forget where the end is and get kick back...it's dang dangerous for a first time user

[John Bartley]

I have an MS361 with an 18" bar and it's been a great saw. As far as the 25" bar goes though..... I'm with Jack... I think that you're going to find that it's very nose heavy and the unusual balance combined with that bar tip being waaayyy out there is going to be unsafe, not to mention difficult to use in "most" cases. An MS361 will drive a 20" bar with no trouble, and the balance on that combination makes the bar tip just slightly heavy enough that you'll feel as if the handle is lighter, but the tip won't be catching on the ground or jabbing into stuff on the other side of the log all the time.

Here's an unusual suggestion for you regarding the type of chain you use. Most folks will suggest that you use a full chisel chain as it cuts faster. This is true. A full chisel chain will cut faster, but when you hit a stone or a nail or something else buried in your salvaged wood, the full chisel chain will go dull and stop cutting very quickly. My suggestion is to try a semi chisel chain and keep a file on hand (along with a spare chain). A semi chisel chain will take a lot more abuse and still keep cutting due to the longer cutting face on the tooth. It's down side is that it won't cut as fast as a sharp full chisel chain. I use only semi chisel because most of what I cut is lying on the ground and has stones, dirt, etc. in the bark.

just my $.02

cheers eh?

[Hilel Salomon]

Gosh, in two minutes I'm seconding Jack's posts twice. He's right about the bar. I have the 036 ( the predecessor to the 361) and I wouldn't recommend a bar much longer than 20 inches for any length of time on it. For longer cuts, I have a 660 and a Husky 372. The fact is that for the smaller lathes, you probably don't want to cut more than 18 inch logs (lengthwise) anyway. To cut them into that length, you can certainly cut larger diameters w/a 20" bar. I also recommend building a small holding (don't know what you call it) jig?? to hold the logs steady. I built a variation of the following and it is extremely useful.
http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/tip33.htm. I used 3/4" plywood (6x), cut v's into them, drilled two holes and used two threaded bar's w/wingnuts.
Finally, please, please, get a safety helmet and wear goggles. Hands down, the chainsaw will be the most dangerous/useful power tool you use.
Good luck, Hilel.

[Hilel Salomon]

Well.. It took me so long to find the site to include, that John beat me to it.. Having been a Stihl dealer, he certainly knows what he's talking about... I would add that for a novice cutter, a full chisel is too dangerous. Around here, many of the dealers have been told not to sell those chains to anyone but professionals. You can, of course, still get them on the internet, but....
Luck, Hilel.

[jack richington]

Steve..I give that advice, not because I believe you are an idiot, but because I have logged for many years, cut firewood for 30, and built my own house with a 16 in saw...and heck you have a jet mini..how big can you throw..9 7/8 inches..remember at 16 inches you can cut about 32 inches..that's almost a 3ft tree!

[David Wilhelm]

I'm not sure if you already hav this saw or are thinking about buying one.... Just to put it simple and please I'm not being mean or hateful. If you have to post a question about what type of saw to buy. you are not ready for a 25 inch bar on any saw. If you already have this bar. put it away and buy a 18 or 20 with a chain. If you are milling logs you can't take a regular chain and cut down the end grain you lay the block on it's side and cut it long ways. 18-20 will do all you need with a 25 you'll just fell the tree. and cross cut huge logs. If you dont see the need for taking down huge trees then sell this bar or trade it. Think about a good electric or one hand for rounding your blanks. I dont like a heavy saw for doing this. My .02

[Chris Barnett]

OK, you have the perfectly sized bar...for the experienced user...but it can get you in a second and it can be really bad. Buy a 18 or 20 inch bar, get a low kickback chain for it (see a reputable Stihl dealer for it). ..and be careful. Once you have lots of experience, and if you really want the longer bar....put the longer bar back on. Six ft and was 275# here, so I could handle a fast cutting chain and have a brand new one, but I use the slower cutting, low kickback chain since it is so much safer (with a hospital being so far away...more than 1 block :D).

[Steve Kubien]

...it's dang dangerous for a first time user

I am with you on this. 25" is a serious weapon and just plain dangerous unless you've got a lot of skill. Get an 18" and when your skill and lathe allow for it, move up to a large bar.

Steve Kubien

[Mike Lipke]

I have an 026 pro with an 18" bar, and it is more than I have ever needed, and I have cut some huge trees down.

As a matter of fact, my brother heats with wood, and does all his own cutting and felling, and he thinks I'm nuts to have the 18". He has a 16".

Get a good saw, but don't get carried away. You have to lift and hold the thing, as well as control it. Ask yourself if you are going to cut up wood, or be a logger. Loggers are pretty hard to find, and even they will have a smaller saw right there with the big one, because they don't want to wrestle a bigger saw than they need to.

[Dennis Peacock]

OK....if you are a 1st time chainsaw owner/operator?

1. Purchase you a pair of chainsaw chaps. You can't believe how many leg injuries there are every year with a chainsaw.
2. Purchase good eye and ear protection.
3. Wear gloves when operating the saw.
4. If you have purchased an MS361 (which I have as well), use the 18" bar for a while and become very comfortable with it. You can cut a LOT of tree with a MS361 and an 18" bar.
5. If you need more bar length? Purchase the 25" bar/chain combo and save it for the very few times you'll actually "need" a 25" bar.

Do your best to never cut without chaps. A guy I work with was just trimming up some trees and such in his yard, the saw slipped from a limb and he then needed 78 stitches in his knee...all in the blink of an eye. Now he always runs a chainsaw with chaps.

[Steven DeMars]

Thank you to everyone for your responses . . . . This forum is the most valuable "tool" I have access to. I have not purchased the saw yet, but do have a very good Stihl Dealer (K & D) in Baton Rouge, LA. I watched Bill Grumbine's Basic Video last night again. It was very good & had a wood harvest/prep section. The reason I was wanting a 25" was to be able to cut the logs length ways as shown in the video. How do you guys cut your logs length ways with shorter bars on your chainsaw.

I must admit that upon handling the 361 with a 24" bar, it definitely seemed to pull to the ground. It was also a little hefty . . .

So, I do hear you guys . . . If any of you could direct me to the method of prepping a log (cutting length ways) with a bar shorter than the length of the log, please let me know . . . But I now have resigned myself to a 20" bar on the 361 . . . I now need some technique info that only you have . . :)

[David Wilhelm]

I thought I explained how. YOu can use a chain saw and rip a log like a saw mill but you need a chain made for this type cutting. you can buy a jig to hold the saw etc....... if you have a mini lathe as i read. You only need to cut a block just longet and you can turn. Let's use 12", Lay it on is side on a sawing block. ( I am useing a big pine block) and place wedges under each side to hold it. Take your saw, and cut down the length the bar will be running the length of the block you are cutting and will pull out ribbons. With an 18" bar you have plaenty of room. Once in half, lay it flat and tack your round patern to the bark side and trim it round sawing in a downward motion. Doing this with a dull chain is a danger and with a heavy saw can be a pain and danger as well. BE CAREFUL.

[CPeter James]

I have cut wood for over 35 years, lots of wood from trees over 30" in diameter for saw logs to 8 cords of fire wood a years to burn and I have never used anything but a 16" bar. I have a Stihl 260 Pro and a couple of very old Poulan XXVs. I think a saw of that size is way too much for a novice and especially to cut bowls to turn an a miny. Somebody is going to get hurt. Speaking of hurt, be sure to get chaps, hard hat with face shield and hearing protection and safety gloves. Those old Poulans are not like the junk they sell now, but quite powerful, very light and well balanced with a horizontal cylinder. For liming and general cutting, a small easy to handle saw is unbeatable. When that saw gets heavy to hold after a few minutes, it is hard to control.

CPeter

["Gary Brewer"]

Steven: 25" bar is huge and much more fatiging to use which can also lead to errors. Stihl is the best and well worth the premium price. I have a friend with a tree farm that has used them all and he now only uses Stihl. My first lasted 25 years. I have a MS260 pro now which I love. A smaller Stihl with a 16 or 18 inch bar is plenty to start. I would actually recommend the 16" to start. You can get longer bars for a given saw later if you really want. I had an 031 before this and it was a great saw but a lot heavier to use than my latest. Any of the Stihl pro versions have better balance their ( Stihl's) cheaper models. The compression release is a real nice feature as well as their toolless chain adjuster. A 16 inch bar can cut a 32 diameter tree. There are also courses on cutting trees that you might want to look into.
Gary

[Steven DeMars]

Steven: 25" bar is huge and much more fatiguing to use which can also lead to errors. Stihl is the best and well worth the premium price. I have a friend with a tree farm that has used them all and he now only uses Stihl. My first lasted 25 years. I have a MS260 pro now which I love. A smaller Stihl with a 16 or 18 inch bar is plenty to start. I would actually recommend the 16" to start. You can get longer bars for a given saw later if you really want. I had an 031 before this and it was a great saw but a lot heavier to use than my latest. Any of the Stihl pro versions have better balance their ( Stihl's) cheaper models. The compression release is a real nice feature as well as their tool-less chain adjuster. A 16 inch bar can cut a 32 diameter tree. There are also courses on cutting trees that you might want to look into.
Gary

Thanks, with all the common sense experience based replies I have received, I have already corrected my thinking . . . . :)

[Wayne Cannon]

It takes quite a bit more engine to drive a 25" bar, also, which means it is probably quite a bit heavier.

I've cut a lot of wood with my 18" saw, and the only reason for wanting a slightly longer bar is to facilitate limbing without so much bending over.

[CPeter James]

I cut this up with my 16" Stihl 260Pro. If it were hardwood, you could make pretty good sized bowls out of it.

http://home.metrocast.net/~cpjvkj/bigtree.jpg

CPeter

[Nathan Hawkes]

Thank you to everyone for your responses . . . . This forum is the most valuable "tool" I have access to. I have not purchased the saw yet, but do have a very good Stihl Dealer (K & D) in Baton Rouge, LA. I watched Bill Grumbine's Basic Video last night again. It was very good & had a wood harvest/prep section. The reason I was wanting a 25" was to be able to cut the logs length ways as shown in the video. How do you guys cut your logs length ways with shorter bars on your chainsaw.

I must admit that upon handling the 361 with a 24" bar, it definitely seemed to pull to the ground. It was also a little hefty . . .

So, I do hear you guys . . . If any of you could direct me to the method of prepping a log (cutting length ways) with a bar shorter than the length of the log, please let me know . . . But I now have resigned myself to a 20" bar on the 361 . . . I now need some technique info that only you have . . :)




I've seen people using a large carpenter's square to mark paralell lines on each end, but I usually just eyeball the cut. One thing that I'd really emphasize here is SAFETY!!!!! As a firsttime chainsaw owner especially, you really should buy a pair of chainsaw chaps. They are made of a special kevlar fiber which jams the chain instantly in the event that it touches the chaps. Cutting lengthwise with the grain is VERY different than crosscutting. I myself own a Stihl ms-361, as well as an 024AV, 029S, and a HUGE husqvarna 394XP. Use the SMALLEST bar you possibly can. That might sound silly, but I can tell you that weilding a large bar for any length of time and trying to keep it straight isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. I have 20",32", and 42" bars for my husqvarna, and a 16 on the smaller saws. The 361 is very well balanced with a 20" bar, and cuts very well with either a semichisel or a full chisel chain. I personally think that if you're cutting bowl blanks, you should go with a chisel chain, and forgo the semichisel. Although semichisel does keep an edge longer, it simply doesn't cut as smoothly or as cleanly as full chisel chain does. I would also tell you to use a safety chain in your case, as kickback is no joke. Sharpening chain is not that difficult.The extra time you spend sharpening a full chisel chain more frequently than the equivalent semichisel chain will be worth it in how much sharper the full chisel chain is! Also, while you're at the shop buying a pair of chaps, don't forget to get the STIHL forestry helmet. It's a good investment. Vision and hearing are two critical areas that can't be overlooked. Plus, you never know when a hung up branch (widowmaker) might fall on your head and kill you.

[Bruce McElhaney]

IMIO, Stihl or Husky is the only way to go. I now use a Stihl 250 with a 18" bar. It's a nice balance of power, light weight with decent price for a quality Stihl saw. If money is no object get a 260 Pro. My buddy has a 290 Farm Boss with 18" bar and it's a lot of saw for the money as well, but with a bit more power and weight than the 250.

[CPeter James]

My Stihl 260 Pro was pricy, but the compression release and other features are worth it to me.

CPeter

[scott schmidt grasshopper]

hi thought to chime in here. I have been a long time firewood cutter and xmas tree man
I have a stihl 032 and a 24 inch bar. . its a little much bar if you try to cut full thickness with it BUT you dont have to bend over to cut wood on the ground. . if you use a low kickback chain it should be ok for the new guy , saws are all about keeping sharp teeth and not getting fatigued. you always have to watch where your nose of the bar is and never rest the saw on your legnice thing about the extra bar is when slabbing ( ripping) a log you can make one cut instead of trying to get two parrell cuts from both ends. . just cause you have soo much bar doesnt mean you have to use it. I think a smaller powerhead might be in order for a newbie but stick with the 3/8 chain chaps should be worn and eye protection /gloves etc.. dont forget steel toed boots 2 more cents,,,,,, scott

[Greg Narozniak]

I run a Stihl 026 (Not the pro, never saw the need for a decomp valve on a saw that small and the preset carbs are junk) and it has an 18" bar on it and it is more than I have ever needed. I have dropped 30" + trees without issue.

My old saw I had a 16" bar and went to a 20" mostly for the "I want bigger look" and i never saw the need for a bar that large. You are always cutting with the bar closest to the body so the extra is useless as far as I was concerned. The saw will also cut faster with the shorter bar so why go that big, unless the bending over is a factor which I can see.

The 361 is a great all around saw. You will never outgrow it however you may want something smaller for extended times when the work is small. Start out with a 16" bar and some safety chain and once you become comfortable then move up to some pro chain and then if needed get a bigger bar.

I was taught to use full chisel if your cutting fresh, clean live wood and go with semi chisel if you are cutting dead and/or dirty wood. This will give you the longest run between sharpening. Either chain can be made more aggressive by filing down the rakers.

Oh and get a file and learn how to sharpen by hand. Takes 10 minutes to do a chain properly and when done right it cuts like new.

[Hilel Salomon]

Steven, I have to get two more cents in. First of all if you set up a holding jig, you can cut almost any length. If you have space under the log in the form of a "V" your saw won't be hitting anything and you can keep cutting without having to turn around and meet your initial cut. Secondly, Bill Grumbine's videos are fantastic. He's funny, informative and a great teacher. Unfortunately, he doesn't wear any safety equipment in his demo on sawing a log. Another turning video has the demonstrator wearing shorts. Frequently-especially with Raffan's videos, the demonstrator is either saying "do as I say, not as I do," or not even bothering with that kind of warning. That is a disservice to novices. Safety glasses, a hard hat and chaps-and depending on the terrain-even safety boots, are small investments compared to losing a foot, leg, getting chips in your eyes, or dying.
Good luck, Hilel.

[Steven DeMars]

I picked up a new Stihl 361 with a 20" bar today. Also got all the necessary safety equipment. Stihl chaps, head gear with eye and ear protection, have Red Wing steel toe boots and most of all a very safety conscious neighbor that cuts 6 to 8 cords of wood a year that is going to go wood hunting with me . . . .;)

[Paul Gallian]

I have cut wood for many years. Always safety minded! I have used and own several chainsaws. The larger and longer saws wear me OUT! Tired people makes for an unsafe condition......

18 inch bar is the right way to GO! but even at that be careful.....

and inch lower and I would have been in rehab for 18 months...