4/4 or 5/4 - Two Questions

[Jeff Wright]

I like to build my face frames and door rails and stiles a little thicker than the standard 3/4 inches, somewhere around 7/8 of an inch. I hesitate to buy 4/4 lumber because I am concerned that once I plane the rough wood I will not have enough thickness for my oversized pieces. I am fortunate to have a 16-inch jointer/planer with my MiniMax 410 machine, so working the wood is no problem. I also have a local hardwood dealer that encourages his customers to pick through the wood piles (Weiss' Lumber in Largo, FL . . . a great source!).

Here are my two questions:

1] In your experience, do you run into difficulties using the 4/4 stock? Would you think I would have a problem achieving my desired 7/8 thickness?

2] In using Blum Euro type hinges, does the added thickness prevent the use of those types of hinges?

Thanks.

[Rob Russell]

Jeff, I think it depends on whether your 4/4 stock is truly 4/4 or not and how flat it is. If the stock is flat so it mostly just needs a single pass to face joint it and a second pass on the other side to dimension it, I'd think that real 4/4 would be OK.

I worked with a sawyer to get a lot of oak for replacing the trim in our house. I wanted 4/4 stock. Most of the stuff is actually a proud 1" - probably closer to 17/16" or 18/16". I'd take calipers and measure stuff I was buying elsewhere and if it wasn't a full 4/4, I'd simply not use it.

Can't help you on the hinges.

Rob

[Bob Lang]

The closer your pieces are to finished width and length before you start milling the lumber, the better your chances will be. Hitting 7/8" from 4/4 rough stock is possible, but not guaranteed. A lot depends on how flat the rough stuff is, and how generous the sawyer is. If you try to surface whole boards, you'll be lucky to hit 13/16"

Bob Lang

[John Finley]

The 4/4 material I have been getting has been ranging from 7/8 to 1". I think it just depends on the supplier.

[David DeCristoforo]

Standard "Euro" hinges will work fine with 7/8" thick doors. You might need slightly wider "reveals" unless the edges are shaped in some way but otherwise they should be fine. As to the thickness you can expect to get out of 4/4 rough stock. it's really going to depend on how the material was milled. I have bought 4/4 rough that was closer to 1 1/8 inches thick. But it's usually right around one inch. If the stock is fairly clean and straight, you can usually get 7/8 out of it.

YM

[Jim Becker]

As someone else stated, the quality and condition of the stock you start with will make a difference. You "might" be able to get 7/8" material starting with 4/4 rough stock, but it will be somewhat challenging. If after you skim to check grain and color you can cut down to shorter lengths, you'll have a better shot, but personally, I'd start with 5/4 for this one!

[Scott Donley]

Better to have to much than to little. I am with Jim on this one.

[Jeff Wright]

All good comments. Thanks.

My one issue with buying the 5/4 is milling it down to the final approx 7/8 thickness. It either means running it through the bandsaw (I have a MM20, so that performs the task well), or repetitive runs throught the planer. Either approach leads to filling the dust collector bin often. BTW, don't forget to check your collector's dust level. I just checked mine and ended up having to disassemble the large Oneida filter and cleaning it out - I wore a dust mask for that one!

[David DeCristoforo]

Well the thing to do might be to just go check out the material...see how cleanly it's milled, how straight it is, etc. This should not present a problem if the supplier will let you "pick through the piles". Then you would have a much better idea. I agree that milling 5/4 to get 7/8 is somewhat wasteful and should be avoided if possible. But if the wood is very rough and uneven and/ or only sawn to a "scant" inch or less, that may be the only option.

YM

[Tyler Purcell]

One of my favorite hardwood suppliers sells all their 4/4 lumber at more like 5/4, so like everyone said it all depends on how much warping has occurred and how thick it truly is.

[Monroe Brown]

The 4/4 that I buy is usually about one and an eighth thick. I don't know if that is the norm or just the policy of my hardwood outlet.

I frequently use 7/8 material myself, milled from the 4/4 that I buy. I pick my planks very carefully, making sure that that they are fairly straight with no cupping. I also let my material sit for a month or more before basic milling (one side, one edge, about an inch longer than needed) and a week after basic milling. Lastly, my jointer and planer only take off about 1/32 per pass when milling. I find with this method that I generally have no problems getting 7/8 out the 4/4 material that I purchase.

It's not that I'm cheap, I just hate the thought of wasting good hardwood by planing and jointing it to death.

Regards,

MB

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Jeff, I think it depends on whether your 4/4 stock is truly 4/4 or not and how flat it is.

Yah, wot dat guy said~!!

[Richard Daly]

2 things...If you are going to a mill for your lumber,call in advance and tell them to cut 4/4 +1/8 No big thing.. 2nd all you really need neat is the exterior, the other side is against the wall that you will never see,

keep fingers out of joiners....Stubby

[Jeff Wright]

The 4/4 that I buy is usually about one and an eighth thick. I don't know if that is the norm or just the policy of my hardwood outlet.

I frequently use 7/8 material myself, milled from the 4/4 that I buy. I pick my planks very carefully, making sure that that they are fairly straight with no cupping. I also let my material sit for a month or more before basic milling (one side, one edge, about an inch longer than needed) and a week after basic milling. Lastly, my jointer and planer only take off about 1/32 per pass when milling. I find with this method that I generally have no problems getting 7/8 out the 4/4 material that I purchase.

It's not that I'm cheap, I just hate the thought of wasting good hardwood by planing and jointing it to death.

Regards,

MB

Some good ideas, MB. Mike Morgan sent me a PM with a good idea telling me many folks buy 8/4 stock from him so they can resaw it to their desired finished thickness (prior to milling). That idea may make some sense.

[Jerry Olexa]

The actual stock will tell you. Usually they cut it a little fatter than the 4/4 stated...

[John Thompson]

If I want true 7/8" as I do tomorrow fro a chest top... I purchase 5/4 S-2.. Joint it on one face and take it to the planer for exact.. Better to have too much as someone stated.. than not enough. That promotes compromise from the original game plan.

I agree with Mike Morgan as stated. If I need additional or for another project (there's always another project), I buy 8/4.. resaw and then take it to the jointer-planer. That gives me inventory with the advantage that I also have "book-match" if called for which often it is..

Sarge..

[Dixon Peer]

The answer is, it depends. It depends on the piece you're making. Does it require long pieces; long wide pieces? I can usually get 7/8" out of 4/4 rough lumber, and especially if I'm only showing one side because then I can plane the back side "hit and miss".

If you're going to buy 5/4 to mill to less than 1 1/8" it seems to me to be wasteful, and your point about the dust/chips to take away adds to the effort.

[Joe Chritz]

I'll go on a limb and advise 4/4 stock.

First there is a little under a board foot more in a 5/4 5" wide board (96") than 4/4. That wouldn't actually be a lot but does add up.

Secondly, I am assuming panels will still be 3/4 thick. If they are then get a bit extra wood (always a good idea anyway) and pick the thicker/straighter boards for your frame stock and the others for panels.

The supplier I use I almost always can get 7/8 from the 4/4 but like already mentioned other suppliers vary.

Joe

[John Thompson]

I stated I would purchase 5/4 to end with 7/8" exact. I agree with those that it is somewhat of a waste but.....

If that stock has any cup or bow off the rack or... you down-size from 12-14' at your shop and let it sit a few days to acclimate.... there is the risk it was not dryed properly and the size-down cut lets moisture escape rapidly. You end up with some cup or bow even though you brought it home other-wise.

I see the 5/4 as insurance which is actually a waste of your money.... Until the accident then you realize the value it really has. Just my opinion and approach as 4/4 might be fine.. and then it might not if you want to end up with 7/8" exact..

Sarge...