Stanley 60 1/2 v.s.???

[Roy Hahn]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to the idea of using hand planes. Not having actually acquired one yet, I was hoping someone could explain to me why the Stanley Low Angle 60-1/2 is far more popular than lets say a Stanley Low Angle 12-960 for example.

The type of woodworking I will primarily using this for is small exotic wood type projects.

Thanks in advance!

[Mike Henderson]

I think the 12-960 is the modern version of the 60 1/2. The problem with the modern Stanley planes is that many people, including me, have reported problems with the planes. My experience was that the blade would not hold an edge. As soon as I used it after sharpening, the edge would fracture.

You could get an excellent modern Stanley and then you might get one that gives you problems. For about the same price, you should be able to purchase a used Stanley for about the same as a new 12-960. While there's a risk in purchasing a used plane, most people believe you have a higher chance of getting a good plane.

While they're much more expensive, the Lie-Nielsen or the Lee Valley low angle, adjustable mouth block planes are excellent. For about $75-$85 LN makes a small low angle plane (fixed mouth) which is excellent.

Mike

[Brian Kent]

Welcome, Roy!

The Stanley Low Angle 12-960 looks like a modern Stanley available in a hardware store near you. The problem is that they aren't as well made as the old Stanley 60-1/2.

The recommendations you'll get here are for old Stanleys or new planes like Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley that are made as well or better than the old Stanleys.

Brian

[Roy Hahn]

Thank you both for the good insight. Mike, you brought up the point of a fixed mouth instead of adjustable. Is an adjustable mouth really all that necessary?

[James Mittlefehldt]

Thank you both for the good insight. Mike, you brought up the point of a fixed mouth instead of adjustable. Is an adjustable mouth really all that necessary?

I have the Lee Valley version and to be perfectly honest I doubt I have adjusted the mouth more than two or three times in the seven or so years I have had it, even though it is the most used plane in my shop.

[Roy Hahn]

I knew this was the right place to be. Great feedback! Can anyone offer a link to educate myself on the various hand planes and their operation?:)

[Joel Goodman]

I would caution against the Stanley fixed mouth block planes. The mouth is usually way too open. The LN mentioned with the fixed mouth has a much tighter mouth. The advantage of the adjustable mouth is not that it needs to be adjusted that often; it's that you can set it for a fine opening when doing fine work.

[Jim Koepke]

I knew this was the right place to be. Great feedback! Can anyone offer a link to educate myself on the various hand planes and their operation?:)

As far as the various hand planes, one of the better sites is Patrick's Blood & Gore. If you do a Google search on that, the first two will get you there.

There is also rex mill, as in rexmill.com.

These give a lot of information about hand planes and some of what the individual models are used for. Both of these sites tend to be Stanley centric. There are other manufactures who also made and make quality planes.

The best place might be right here.

I often think of a plane as a chisel (or gouge) with a precision holding device built around it.

For me, block planes are used on small pieces and for smoothing and squaring end grain.

The bench planes are usually for bigger pieces. A rough sawn board will often be worked with my "fat cut" #5 as I do not have a scrub plane. Then a #7 is used to flatten the faces and straighten the edges. If there is more smoothing to do or there are small swirls or changes in grain direction, the smaller smoothing bench planes will be used, #1-#5.

Then there are the specialty planes.

Router, molding, rabbet, shoulder, chamfer and many more.

Just now went to Google and did a search on "hand plane use" without quotes and found a lot, including:

http://www.rd.com/18059/article.html

I think Fine Woodworking's web site had a little bit on hand plane use also.

It is not as bad as Carl Sagan said about, "to bake a cake from scratch, one must first create the universe." But, there are some things that one must do. First and foremost is to get the blade sharp. There are many ways to go about this. What works best for you is the right way for you.

Many people like the "scary sharp" method using sandpaper. Some like oil stones. Some like water stones. Others want power sharpening systems. I find all of them have advantages and disadvantages.

Bob Smalser is one of the great resources here and other places. I know he did an item on rehabbing chisels with a little on sharpening.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=5771&highlight=chisel+sharpening

He has a lot of other useful information in the search on chisel sharpening and Bob Smalser.

Just what he has posted made my contribution here well worth it. There are others here who also make the few dollars requested feel like one of the best investments in my education that could be made.

>end shameless plug<

Once the blade is sharp, then comes the use. Depending on the plane and the shape it is in, this can be an epiphanic moment of fine shavings coming out of the plane or a bit of a disappointment because something is not quite right.

So, in my way of working, block planes are slightly trickier to adjust. Others may do it different. For a plane like the 60-1/2 or a 65, the lever cap is loosened and the blade adjuster is turned a little then the cap is clamped. One could likely back off the cap holding screw until the blade was loose enough to move freely with the cap clamped and adjust then tighten the screw. What ever works for you. Be careful about how tight the cap holding screw is set. Somewhere I read setting it too tight can damage the sole of the plane.

Read Patrick's Blood & Gore on the 60-1/2 & 65. Also read on the 19 (?) and some of the other block planes for more information.

It is my feeling the adjusters on block planes are not as robust as on bench planes. The screws on some of these sometimes have been stripped from improper use.
My method is to hold the plane with one hand at the back with fingers on the adjuster and the other hand over the front with fingers on the lever held open or the knuckle cap held up.
Then the plane is slowly moved along the edge of a piece of scrap while making adjustments until wood particles start appearing. At this point, the lever is set or the cap is closed. Test cuts are taken from the whole blade. This can be done by moving the plane from one side to the other while taking the cut. If you are real lucky and the stars and moon are aligned in your favor, the shaving will be perfectly even from both sides of the plane. If you live in reality like the rest of us, the plane will likely be cutting on one side and not the other or if the blade is set too rank (taking a deep cut) one side will be thicker than the other. If it is not cutting on one side, then you will want to do some lateral adjustment.

Again, this is my opinion, others may feel different. If they do, I hope the chime in, because if I am wrong, I want to learn the better way.

For my block planes which consist mostly of Stanley 60-1/2s and 65s, I like my caps set loose enough that the lateral adjustment can be made. It should not be loose enough for the blade to slip when cutting. I do have fairly strong fingers, and can pinch the side of the plane, the iron and the cap, giving a little twisting squeeze moves the blade toward the side where it was not cutting.

The thing that one can only learn by doing is how much back lash there is in the adjuster on the plane in your hand. I find it helps to imaging the adjusting knob is the face of a clock. Surely, someone into engineering could tell us based on the thread count and the angle on the blade as it is hitting the wood how much one minute of turn will effect the cut. As an example, if the adjuster has 16-2/3 threads per inch, one full revolution would move the blade .060", so one minute would turn it .001".

So, this is where one has to go out, grab the plane and a piece of wood providing the blade is sharp and just try it out. Make note of what feels right or wrong and come back with those thoughts and from there we can go to the next step.

If you do not yet have a plane, then there are some folks here who may have them for sell or many of us will be glad to help you determine how to acquire one. That would depend on your determinations of what you are willing to spend and what you want to get. I like to buy old and sometimes almost derelict planes and rehabilitate them. Others like something that works great right out of the box.

With that said, there is a couple more thoughts with which to leave you. Even right out of the box, people have had less than perfect results. My Lie-Nielson plane came with instructions to loosen the cap screw because it was set tight for shipping. If that was not read and I was a novice, I might have been disappointed.

Then there is the fact that today, what was thought sharp a week ago is different than what is sharp today. Recently I purchased some Hock blades for my planes. These are like the Holy Grail of plane blades. They were heck'a sharp. They did have a factory grind on them, but I have read so much about them. At the same wood show, an 8000x water stone was purchased. Well, after a few weeks in the sharp, it was time to sharpen some blades, Hocks included. It was amazing how sharp those blades can get on those stones. Of course, many of my Stanley blades are also as sharp.

So unless you are real good at sharpening already, sharp will be a moving target for a while. When you can shave hair off your arm with the lightest of touch while not feeling hair being cut no hairs left behind, you will be on the road to sharp and with so many of us gliding down that slippery slope.

jim

Darn, I wanted to proof read this. Way late for bed, so have to check it later.

The man who makes no mistakes is likely not making anything else.
--Have seen many sources on this one. Penroy, Ford, T. Roosevelt, A. Einstein

[Mike Cutler]

Is an adjustable mouth really all that necessary?

Yes it is.
It took me awhile to really understand the entire dynamic of how a plane really works. Everything revolves around the pressure at the mouth. The relationship of the length of the exposed blade and the relative distance to the front of edge of the mouth dictate how much material can be removed.
The tighter the mouth the finer the cut, as long as the blade is adjusted correspondingly to match the tightness of the mouth.

I have the Lie Nielsen(LN) versions of the Stanley 102 and 103, non adjustable block planes, but I also have the LN 60 1/2. The 60 1/2 is the more versatile plane by virtue of the adjustable mouth.

[Roy Hahn]

Big thanks to everyone. A lot to absorb, but greatly appreciated.

Jim, I hope you finally got some sleep dude. You should be writing articles for magazines and such.:)

[Jim Koepke]

Big thanks to everyone. A lot to absorb, but greatly appreciated.

Jim, I hope you finally got some sleep dude. You should be writing articles for magazines and such.:)

Thanks, if you read some of Bob Smalser's posts, he makes me look like a neophyte. At least when it comes to working with tools and wood. He also has a lot more years than me in the area. Woodworking is a relatively recent pursuit for me.

Though, they have me writing a manual at work before taking an early retirement.

Harry Strasil also is another great writer. I am sure a lot of us are waiting for more on the 18th century apprentice.
There are a lot of others who also write helpful stuff.
I came, I read, I learned.

So, I try to return the favor and continue with the what goes around comes around philosophy. For surely as the future comes, I will be right back here looking for information to aid me in some project.

jtk