Wooden Planes anyone?!?

[Mark Kelly]

Everyone here, it seems, talks about all sorts of LN, Stanley, Clifton, etc. planes. What about wooden planes?

I am intrigued by wooden planes, and, in fact, purchased a used wooden jointer. Haven't had much time with it yet, so not sure how much I like it.

Anyone use wooden planes? Do you prefer them over cast iron planes? Anyone every build one? I plan on building a small wooden block plane for my son who is more than excited to work with me in the shop, but just a little to young to handle the cast steel planes.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...Anyone use wooden planes? Do you prefer them over cast iron planes? Anyone every build one?...

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Pam

[Mark Kelly]

Could you elaborate?? :)

[Pam Niedermayer]

Could you elaborate?? :)

Sure, for thousands of words. What do you want to know?

Pam

[Dave Anderson NH]

hi Mark-

I think that the tnedency to discuss Stanley style metal planes has mostly to do with their ready availability and the fact that you have to already be into hand tools before you discover the sources for the wooden ones. They also move with changes in temperature and humidity and this scares many folks off.

I regularly use my 24" wooden fore plane and my 28" jointer along with a 24" razee fore plane. I also have a half set of even numbered hollows and rounds and a number of beading planes and complex molders which see use as needed. For those who are intimidated by wooden planes, they do have a learning curve, but some practice will get you on the track. A prime source of information for any hand tool woodworker is Mike Dunbar's book: Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking Tools. It belongs in the library of any woodworker interested in hand tools.

[Roger Bell]

I own and use a number of planes, both iron and wood (all Western), including a several Stanley Bedrocks and a few fine English and Scottish infills. My hands-down favorite however, is a very old no-name razee fore plane in cuban mahogany with a laminated Marples Hibernia iron. The plane body is probably something a master craftsman fabricated for himself 125 years ago or so. I have never encountered cutting steel of such quality as is in this particular iron. The density and heft of the body is unbelievable compared to the typical beech-bodied plane and is rivalled only by rosewood or ebony. Not wishing to patch the mouth, or "true" the sole, I use this fine plane to rough joint edges prior to finishing with a #7 pattern. Light duty as befits its age and status, I think. As Dave has stated, it does take some trial and error to learn to hammer adjust the iron setting on a wooden plane, but once you get the hang of it, it is no more difficult to use, really, than the Stanley-Bailey.

The best thing about wooden planes is that there is not an great deal of user interest in wooden planes, so the prices have not spiked upwards for the more common ones as have those of the common adjustable cast iron patterns. It is not at all unusual to find fine quality wooden planes at very reasonable prices.

[Lloyd Robins]

I love my Knight Toolworks planes! I have a new jointer on order, and I am really looking forward to receiving it. So far my large planes are all Knight planes, and they are what has prompted my slide towards the Neanderthal side. Take a look at his site if you are interested in wooden planes. He is a good man to work with. www.knight-toolworks.com

[Mark Kelly]

Well, why do you like your wooden plane more than a cast iron?

Second, when you built your plane, did you find it difficult in getting the correct mouth opening? Or did you make it with an adjustable mouth?

Lastly (for now), did you find building your own plane difficult or easy overall? What types have you built?

[Mark Kelly]

[ For those who are intimidated by wooden planes, they do have a learning curve, but some practice will get you on the track.]

What is this learning curve you speak about? I am curious as to what I will come across when I pick up my jointer (and others in the future) and start using it.

[Davy Barr]

I have a Knight Toolworks purpleheart razee jointer and it's gorgeous. To top it off, it works great. Steve also sends gives directions on the use and care of his planes and they are tuned before he sends them to you. Great to deal with. Stanley jointers are going at high enough prices these days that I decided to just get a new Knight for close to the same price. That was a great decision.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Well, why do you like your wooden plane more than a cast iron?

Second, when you built your plane, did you find it difficult in getting the correct mouth opening? Or did you make it with an adjustable mouth?

Lastly (for now), did you find building your own plane difficult or easy overall? What types have you built?

I like my wooden planes because they work better than my metal ones. This may be due to my inability to tune metal planes, but I have no problem doing so for wooden planes. I still use some metal planes in situations where they are adequate, so I haven't even tried a wooden version. For example, the LN LA jack and Veritas 4.5 smoother (normally used on a shooting board). I also find the Record 043/044 plows superior.

I made a Japanese smoother in a class with a Japanese master dai maker, had no problems getting the correct mouth opening. Overall, it was easy, and it's a superior performer (6' long read through shavings); but there are details to be observed. Based on that class, I've made another, it was also easy, if exacting.

Pam

[Mark Singer]

Mark,
I have quite a few wooden planes. I have the ECE Primus series from the jointer, jack, English jack, reform smoother and block....all excellent. Especially the reform smoother! THey are light, very smooth gliding and no backlash on the adjuster. I have many old style...tap to adjust planes and I like several of those as well. I do have some great metal planes...several Lie Neilsen's , clifton #4, several older Stanleys...the wooden planes are excellent especially ECE because of the adjuster and solid bedding that make for chatter free planning.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Wooden planes require learning a new way of adjusting the irons, namely the use of a small hammer or mallet. This is a bit fussy at first and you will have to practice on each different style until you get a feel (literally) for the idiosyncracies of the different types of wedges and irons. Some planes, like those by Clark & Williams, use the traditional tapered iron while others use an iron of constant thickness. Each behaves slightly differently as you adjust it. In areas of the country with varying humidity and temperature you will occasionally have to reflatten the sole as the wood moves. A few months ago my C & W smoother wasn't behaving right so I threw a straight edge across the sole and found I needed to give it a slight adjustment to the sole to reflatten. Not a big thing, and it took me all of 10 minutes to get back to making shavings. You just have to be alert and be ready to perform the needed maintenence.

The learning curve on older wooden planes is a bit steeper since they often have been stored in less than benign environments. The irons backs often need to be flattened, The throat where the wedge goes often needs to be de-crudded of dirt, and the escapement needs to be cleaned with a tooth brush and mineral spirits. Additionally on hollows and rounds and complex molders with long thin tangs on the irons these need to be straightened and the tips of the tangs filed to remove the mushroom. Some irons will have to be reprofiled so they will conform to the shape of the sole and produce the correct profile. Older planes are a bit more work and there's more to learn about them, but are well worth the effort particularly if you are interested in making period furniture. Finally, a copy of Mike Dunbar's book will answer most of your questions and is really useful as a reference.

[Donnie Raines]

I have all metal bodied planes...I have tried the wooden bodies and I just simply could not get comfortable with them. I had a hrad time getting comfortable with the "frog" and how to set the iron with the wedge)I realize not all wooden planes are set up that way...but...thats what I used).

DonnieR

[Greg Wease]

Mark, I use a variety of planes in my shop, both metal and wood. I like the feel of wood on wood for smoothing and recently completed a Krenov style smoother using a Ron Hock blade that is especially sweet. It is very straightforward and doesn't require any specialized tools. Adjustment takes some time to get used to but the learning curve is steep. There are a number of sites that include instructions for building this type of plane. Here are a couple you might want to check out:

www.lowes.com/lkn?action=howTo&p=Build/BldHndPln

www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/sitelinks/howplane.html

If I could afford one the ECE Primus Reform plane would head my list of most desirable hand tools.

Good Luck,
Greg Wease

[Scott Post]

I have metal planes and use them, but the basic bench planes I use for 90% of my work are wooden. Cast iron planes are just too darned heavy. Flattening a panel is work enough without having to lift and push a big hunk of metal. I also don't like the front knob on Stanley planes. I always end up resting the meaty part at the base of my thumb on the side of the plane and invariably end up with a blister. Wooden planes are more ergonomic.

I do all my molding profiles with wooden planes because I can make my own left handed planes. Even if I were right handed I'd use wooden molders because they're cheaper than router bits.

[John Meikrantz]

Pam,

I'm curious about the differences in Japanese plane design. What are some of the differences in Japanese vs. western designed planes that make them work so much differently? I have seen some pictures of incredible shavings (12" wide, 6' long, transparent) that have been made with Japanese planes.

Any comments based on your plane making class?

John

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam,

I'm curious about the differences in Japanese plane design. What are some of the differences in Japanese vs. western designed planes that make them work so much differently? I have seen some pictures of incredible shavings (12" wide, 6' long, transparent) that have been made with Japanese planes...

OK, first I'm going to exclude the Krenov style planes from the discussion because I consider them a student exercise, their glued parts inhibit water movement and the like. They probably work OK in some situations, but I haven't liked the ones I've tried to use, impossible to adjust the irons, etc.

So, that limits the discussion to those western planes that start life with a mortised mouth to compare. First, the soles are flat on western planes; whereas the Japanese planes have only two or three touchpoints that are coplanar, the number varying according to the type of plane, intended use, and sometimes the wood being planed. Second, western planes are typically pushed, Japanese planes typically pulled. Third, western planes tend to be much taller than Japanese planes. Fourth, western planes have much thinner irons, double or single irons, and typically wedged (some ECE planes are an exception to this). Japanese planes have much thicker irons, sometimes with a subblade, but this is unnecessary. Whether with subblade or not, they are held in place by the abutements of the very thick main iron. If there is a subblade, there's usually a brass cross pin to brace the subblade. Fifth, Japanese planes often have what's called a landing on which the bevel rests, this is for handling particularly gnarly grain, but may not be necessary. Sixth, Japanese irons are typically bedded at 38-45°, western planes at 45-60°.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

I must add my .02

I have several HNT Gordon and Mujingfang planes. These range from mini- and standard smoothers, to try planes and shoulder planes. There is simply nothing quite as tactile as a wooden plane! There are also not many planes with blades like the Gordons!

The Mujingfang planes in particular are an incredible bargain. I bought a few locally very cheaply I thought then saw the prices on the Japan Woodworker website and was knocked out. I might import a few.

I have made a couple of wooden planes. These were fun projects. My most recent one was adapting an old ECE-like Danish horned woodie into a scrub plane (with radiused blade). How did I flatten boards over the years without it?

Another relatively new acquisition was a half set of Hollows and Rounds. These are also so useful and pleasureable that my tailed router gets much less use these days.

I find myself using my wood planes about 90% of the time now. I have a near full set of Stanleys, including Bedrocks, as well as an infill I made. But these all languish on the shelf now.

A tip for Roger Bell, who does not want to insert a new mouth into his Razee Fore Plane. I have successfully used a piece of veneer on the frog as a shim. This closed the mouth down very well. I was told that a piece of chamois leather was used in the "old days". I mentioned this to a friend, who used it very successfully to rehab his Mathieson infill.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Wandless]

Mark,

I have made at least a dozen Krenov style wooden planes, both flat and curved bottom varieties. They are a joy to use. I like the feel of the wooden body vs the metal body. As with any tool you need learn how to us them and adjust them. I found them easy to make, but be sure to get a good iron for them. I have been using Hock irons. I wouldn't classify them as a student exercise as Pam says, because you are making a prescise and sensitive tool. I not sure what she is refering to when she "their glued parts inhibit water movement". I have a 22" wooden jointer plane that hasn't shifted at all since I made it three years ago. You can't beat the feeling you get using a tool you made when you get a shiny smooth surface straight from the iron. After all it is the surface you get not the shaving that matters.

One other thing I have found that my wooden planes have significantly least friction during use compared to my metal planes making them much easier to push. You can use candle wax to reduction the friction on a metal plane but I don't need it for my wooden ones. Another thing is you can make the sole almost any shape you wany which comes in handy if you want to make a coopered door.

Greg

[Dan Evans]

i would consider the best smoothig planes to be the japanese and the infills. In a previous post the comment was made that wooden planes required "a learning curve" which I agree with. Part of this is adjusting the plane iron. Many of the infills do not have a plane iron adjuster. When Norris came out with one evryone went crazy but there is a catch. A machinist and plane make onec told me you can make smaller adjustments with a light hammer than with a Norris Adjuster due to the limitations of the threads. I have since become a believer.

The japanese have some wonderful plane adjusting hammers that are wonderful to use. Their wooden plane bodies also have to be adjusted with a very fine chisel to fit the plane iron in the dai or wooden body. this is a very time consuming experience but once done they are incredible to use. i havent seen too many jointers or jack size japanese planes but the smoothers are the very best. Pulling is also an easier way to move the plane across a board. harrelson Stanley has a wonderful DVD that describes the adjusting process.

Dan

[Doug Shepard]

I just recently picked up a pair of used (barely) Knight planes through an SMC classified. A finish plane and a pocket plane, both 50 deg. I haven't had much chance to use them yet other than to make some test shavings, but was really pleased with the results. Cant wait to get to a point on a project where I can really try them out.

[Jim Hinze]

I absolutely LOVE my wooden planes. I make most of them, krenov style but have a few of Steve Knights planes.

I'm actually getting ready to sell a lot of my old stanleys as they do not work as well as the woodies...

Some of the speciality planes are harder to dupe in wood, I have a veritas low angle jack I won't part with, a lie-nielsen medium shoulder, and an old stanley router plane from my grandpaw.. but the rest are on their way out...

One of the best way's to learn how to use a woodie is to make one... doesn't matter weather it's a krenov style or traditional .. I find no benefit or performance diffrence based on the construction method...

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Except for specialty molding planes, in general I don't prefer wooden planes. I like metal planes. I like LN in particular and LV a bit less.

I have some Steve Knight planes coming plus a Krenov-style plane I made and one other user-made plane not made by me.

Like you, I'll probably sell most of my old Stanleys and Records except where equivalent planes aren't currently available from LN or LV.

[Brian Kent]

I have really been thrilled with the three Mujingfang rosewood planes that I got at JapanWoodworker. I have the Jack, 8-1/2" Smoother and a 4" high angle polish block plane. They have high speed steel blades, look beautiful, work excellently for me, and cost less than a hock blade alone.

I have ordered a shoulder plane and a high angle polish plane (full size). I use them as much as my irons and also enjoy using different muscles in the middle of a long project.

[John Downey]

Hi Mark,

Wooden planes can be pretty easy to make, depending on what you want out of it, and what your skill level is. I made a scrub plane a couple years ago to replace an old stanely that I dropped. Since I had a lever cap and iron, I just made a traditional style body, but with no wedge, and put a big wood screw in the bed for the lever cap to push against. Works great. There's a book by Cecil Pierce that covers this method. There's also a good one that Lee Valley carries, and another by John Whelan. I've also read one about making Krenov style smoothers and block planes, but never tried one. Looks pretty easy with the applied sides and all, maybe an evenings work.

I've got a big chunk of mahogany thats just itching to become a jointer. I bought it for making chair legs, but I'm thinking two chairs and a jointer rather than three chairs.

John

[harry strasil]

I use almost exclusively antique woodies except for the few specialties I have made, I do carry a Stanley skew angle 140 block plane and a stanley 90 tho.

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Anyone use wooden planes? Do you prefer them over cast iron planes? Anyone every build one?

Yes. No (except that I prefer moulding planes in wood as a general rule). Yes.

[Alan DuBoff]

I use almost exclusively antique woodies except for the few specialties I have made, I do carry a Stanley skew angle 140 block plane and a stanley 90 tho.Harry, the first planes I bought were a couple old Stanley planes because that's what I remember using as a kid when I was first exposed to woodworking.

Lately, I find myself gravitating more towards wooden planes, and have bought several specialty type woodies, such as a couple slot groovers, a doser, a left and right concave, a couple scewed rabbets (1 1/4" and 2"), and they just seem like decent planes.

I sure like the feel of a wood plane...they really feel nice.

[Jamey Amrine]

I can't believe this post got this far into the second page without some gratuitous photos:

http://marsh-monster.com/forum/wiki/uploads/Main/lineup_1.jpg

In the upper left, you can see the last of my Bailey planes. It took remouthing an old Howland smoother to make me decide I dodn't need my type 11's anymore (that 5C is still available!). I don't believe in the steep learning curve. A few taps with the hammer, a test cut, and repeat until you have what you want.

They are also far cheaper than what the baileys go for. I get far better results with my wooden planes, and find the lower weight actually beneficial (still don't buy that "weight is better" argument). I think the bedding of the iron is far more important than weight. The wooden planes are certainly far less exhausting to use.

All this is in the eye (hand?) of the craftsman. Depends on what is comfortable to you. It ain't the chariot, it's the horse that pulls it.

-Jamey

[Aaron Kline]

I have a knight toolworks plane on order. I cant wait until it gets here. There will be pictures too.