Nomenclature Question

[Rick Hubbard]

I am writing a decription for someone else about how to assemble a dresser and am stumped by what the proper nomenclature is for the piece pointed out in the attached picture.

Does anyone know, or can we make-up a name that makes sense?

Thanks for the help.

[Bartee Lamar]

I think it would called a dust panel if it had a panel in the middle.

How about Drawer Frame ?

[Greg Hines, MD]

Norm always refers to that piece as a dust frame, if it is empty as drawn. With a plywood panel in it, it would be a dust panel.

Doc

[Richard M. Wolfe]

It's a web frame. It provides a solid support to attach the face frame and also a base for the dust panel.

[Rick Hubbard]

AHA!!!

Thanks Richard!!!

A perfect name. Now, help me some more if you can. The components of the web frame that run width-wise between the side panels: those would be called web-frame RAILS and the pieces that run from front to back would be called web-frame STILES. Does that make sense?


It's a web frame. It provides a solid support to attach the face frame and also a base for the dust panel.

Rick

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Couldn't leave well enough along, could you? :) As to the components for the web frame (which could also be called a dust frame), I'm afraid you got me there. :o I'd probably settle with left side, right side, front, and back. And say it forcefully enough to make it sound like I know what I'm talking about. :D Because the orientation of components is different I don't think rail and stile would be appropriate and could cause confusion with the rails and stiles of the face frame.

[Jason Beam]

The rails would be the pieces who's ends are covered by the stiles. Or... The stiles are the pieces that cover the ends of the rails. It's got little to do with orientation in this application, I don't think.

[Rick Hubbard]

Hi Jason;

Thanks for this:


The rails would be the pieces who's ends are covered by the stiles. Or... The stiles are the pieces that cover the ends of the rails. It's got little to do with orientation in this application, I don't think.

Maybe it is only coincidental that the STILES happen to run across the width of the drawer opening and that the RAILS run from front to back, but in any case writing the web frame assembly instructions it should beclear enough to say:

Cut 2 RAILS 1 1/2" X 20" X 3/4"
Cut 2 STILES 1 1/2" X 32" X 3/4"
Machine Pocket Mortises in the end of each RAIL
Assemble RAILS and STILES using #8 X 1 1/2" Waher Head Screws.

If these instructions a followed, what do you suppose is the chance that the finished web frame will look like the one in the accomppanying drawing?

[Jason Beam]

I'd say even a newb could follow those instructions!

Though - what's a "Pocket Mortise"? Are you making pocket holes? I hadn't thought of them as mortises in the past. I've always considered a mortise a hole that is filled by an adjoining piece, but maybe that's not the rule. I admit that I've probably made that rule up all by myself. It just threw me for a second calling it a pocket mortise. I think I always just call 'em "pocket holes", though that's not entirely accurate, either. Splitting hairs is my specialty!

"Washer" instead of "Waher" is about all I'd correct, really. :)

[Richard M. Wolfe]

My concern with orientation has to do with referring to the face frame. All components of the web frame lie in the same plane as rails of the face frame. Stiles are up and down (in the vertical plane) and rails are side to side or front to back (horizontal plane).

[Jim Becker]

I call that a dust frame, although to be technically correct, it would have floating panels in it to keep "dust" from migration between sections. I build them with pocket screws so I can just cut to length and put them together quickly. If the carcass is using sheet goods, so are the frames with a solid stock facing where it would be visible. These can all be glued screwed. If the carcass is solid stock, then more care has to be taken to insure wood movement. That might include only partially glued sliding dovetails or glue in the front with a screw in a slot toward the rear. Be sure to leave a little space between the frame and the carcass back, if there is on, to accommodate expansion to the rear.

[Rick Hubbard]

Thanks for the input (again).

Maybe I’m trying to make the terminology too precise. Maybe it would be less confusing to call the pieces that run side-to-side (between the side panels) in the web-frame assembly something like “front/rear rails” and then designate the others pieces as “side rails.”

At some point in time I will need to write instructions for building face frames for the chest and there is no point in introducing rail and stile terminology in two different places.

[Kurt Bird]

In Joyce's Encyclopedia of Furniture Making, the front and back pieces are called drawer rails, while the side pieces (which fit in the dadoes on the right and left carcase sides) are called drawer runners. If that frame has a panel in the center, it is called the dustboard (or dust panel, I suppose). If the frame is fairly wide, it might have a muntin in the center, from front to rear.:)
Kurt

[Bill Hylton]

Rick,

Having done this write-up thingie a few times myself, I will offer this nomenclature. The subassembly is usually called a web frame. It is composed of a drawer divider, two runners, and a back rail. I have often called the drawer divider a rail or a web-frame rail.

Bill

[David DeCristoforo]

The thing is called a frame. It's application is what determines what kind of frame it is. In this sketch:
83934
The parts labeled "A" are rails. The parts labeled "B" are stiles.
The orientation of the frame does not affect this. The rails are always rails and the stiles are always stiles. Actually, using the word "always" is inviting an argument because there could always be an exception. So let's just say "mostly".....

YM

[Billy Chambless]

Actually, using the word "always" is inviting an argument because there could always be an exception. So let's just say "mostly".....

YM

Is it always inviting an argument?


;)

[David DeCristoforo]

"Is it always inviting an argument?"

Hummm. Tough question! I guess I would have to say mostly. But there could always be an exception....

;) back atcha...
YM

[Chris Friesen]

The subassembly is usually called a web frame. It is composed of a drawer divider, two runners, and a back rail.

I second this...given that drawers generally run on runners in other circumstances it seems natural to call the side members of the web frame runners. Technically they also serve as kickers for any drawers below, as well, but that's getting picky...

[glenn bradley]

"Is it always inviting an argument?"

Hummm. Tough question! I guess I would have to say mostly. But there could always be an exception....

;) back atcha...
YM

I was waiting for that to start . . . :D