Tiling a floor???

[Mike Cutler]

Hey folks.

I'm doing a bathroom remodel that has gotten a little out of control. It was started in the fall, but winter....Well we all know how winter can put the brakes on a project.

This remodel required that all of the subfloor be pulled up, two layers of T&G. The original 2x6 floor joist were spanning 10 feet and were bowed. I've sistered 2x8's to the original 2x6's that were installed circa 1919 to level the floors. I then put down a single layer of 3/4" Home Advantage TM engineered subfloor, and this is where I am at. (Oh yeah, the room was gutted to the studs, walls trued, and new insulation put in.)

I want to put in a tile floor,and to be honest it's getting a little confusing on how do do it the "best way".

If I am understanding everything properly the sequence should be like this.

One layer of 5/8' Interior plywood on top of the 3/4" Home Advantage subfloor with 15# roofing felt in between. Screws on 4"-6" spacing screwed into the subfloor but not the joists.
A waterproof membrane is put down on top of the plywood, followed by thinset and the concrete backer board. Once again screwed on 4"-6" centers.

The concrete backer board is then taped and the joints filled like drywall. After this another waterproof membrane is put down, followed by a leveling compound.
At this point I want to put in an under tile radiant heat system. How is the radiant heat system affixed to the concrete backer board? The videos show staples?

From this point it's just thinset and the tiles, which are 13.25" square.

I have done a previous floor tiling job but it was dome with small mosiac tiles, so the substrate build up wasn't as crucial. I also used a thinset made for plywood on that job. There was no concrete backer board. These big tiles can crack if everything isn't done right. ( Something I'd really like to avoid)

As I said, the room has been gutted to the studs and the entire floor is accesible from the basement underneath. So there is no reason to try to take any shortcuts, or do it on the cheap.
All of the books I've found deal more with designing and walls than floors. I just want to get this right.

I'm looking for tips, tricks, pitfalls and product recommendations, or if I'm totally hosed up, the correct way.

One more thing. A Maax Neo Round shower is being put in that has to be leveled and mortared. Is it better to put this on top of the concrete backer board, or on top of the plywood?

Thanks in advance.

[Jay Jolliffe]

I've tiled a few floors in my life & I didn't go through all of what you propose. As long as the joists don't flex & you have a good sub floor which I always made 1 1/4" thick. Thats 3/4" plywood & a 1/2" exterior grade plywood. Thats if your going to apply it to the plywood us use exterior plywood. There is a good tile forum www.johnbridge.com (http://www.johnbridge.com.....Great) great forum for tile. Ask there & you'll get the right way from the professionals.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Sounds like you are going for a full blown shear plate for your sub floor.

For floors I really like the new water washable Epoxy mortars. I don't mess with backer board or waterproofing.
I apply directly to the plywood the epoxy is waterproof.

I really dislike the new tile adhesive compounds in a plastic bucket. It's Thinset or epoxy.

The Epoxy I've seen isn't good for walls. I did a shower with the Epoxy mortar and it was a nightmare. The stuff slumps for 7 hours after you apply it.

[Prashun Patel]

You should post your q's on johnbridge.com. It's a (free) tiler's forum and they're EXTREMELY helpful.

There's a tool on there somewhere that'll help you figure out the proper subfloor prep.

Start a thread there. You won't regret it.

[Mike Cutler]

Jay and Shawn
Thanks for the John Bridges link. I've reposted my thread with some edits on that forum.

Cliff
I think I understand what you mean by shear plate,and that was one of the things that was confusing me. I don't mind doing it that way, but it really started to seem a little over the top for a floor that would see as limited travel and load as a bathroom floor.
Still though, I want to get it right. It was an enormous pain to rip up the original two layers of T&G, sister and level the joists. Tear out one non load bearing wall and all of the plumbing and electrical in that wall. Install the subfloor, rebuild the wall, reinstall the plumbing and electrical.
To try and just "get by" with the tiling portion is just something I don't want to do.

[Joe Pelonio]

You must have missed the episode of This Old House where Rich used a pre-made flooring for radiant heat, might have been this one, I don't remember the name. It's structural, so you just have to tile over it. You can find the tiling instructions on a pdf file on the site.

http://www.warmboard.com/

[Ben Grunow]

Here goes, Mike.

I would put a layer of 5/8 underlayment grade ply (screwed as you say) with a layer of tile backer thinsetted to it but I dont think a ton of screws are needed here, maybe every foot or so to be sure the sheet is bedded in the thinset. Now put the electric heat mat/wire down with staples and then either thinset over it (levelling bed required because most heat mats are really too thick to tile over event though they say you can) or a self levelling compound. Then thinset the tiles down over that. I dont think the water proofing is needed unless you have a teen that soaks the floor 3 times a day and even then you are going to have other problems.

Are you ready for this?????? My tile man is named Mike Cutler. Really.

Ben

[Mike Cutler]

Are you ready for this?????? My tile man is named Mike Cutler. Really.

Ben

That's too funny. it's not me though.;)

Tiling is one of those jobs that I both hate and love to do.
It's hard not to admire a well planned,and executed tile job, even if it's not your particular style. But it is work, and there is no doubt about that.
I'm always amazed at what a pro tiler can do. It's an art forum of sorts.
Be sure and tell the other Mike that.

[Chris Padilla]

Mike,

For another radiant source, look here: www.warmfloor.com (http://www.warmfloor.com)

Had our master bedroom/bath expansion not come in 50% higher than we expected, I would have used the above under the tile floor in the new master bathroom. I would have simply stapled it to the subfloor, cementboard over that, tile away or maybe the radiant source goes on top of the cementboard...I forget. Anyway, it is low-voltage (24 V) and looked pretty cool. I got a small snippet in the mail when I had them send me a packet of info.

Be sure to GLUE and SCREW the various levels of subfloors (whatever you decide) you put down on the floor joists to prevent future squeaks and to keep things tight. The larger the floor tile, the less deflection in floor movement they can handle so you are on the right track for making your floor solid, if not perhaps a tad overkill but you know your house, you decide.

[Bob Rufener]

We had some tiling installed a few years ago. The installer put quite a few 2 x 4's between the floor joists and butted tight to the subfloor to make sure there was no movement. Any movement up or down can cause the tile or the grout jointsto crack. Just make sure the floor is as solid as you can.