Boats?

[MATT HASSMER]

Has Anyone Ever Tried To Build Their Own Boat? There Are Several Companies Offering Plans (& Some Offering Materials In Addition) On The Net. Has Anyone Tried To Do This?

[Ed Falis]

I have a kayak hull built with wood-strips from plans, that's been sitting in the basement waiting to be resumed for 5 years. Probably get back to it after I finish the kitchen cabinet project. (Like next winter).

[Art Kelly]

See Grumbine's website: http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/

[John Hain]

I built a little 8 foot jonboat a couple years ago. What type of boat are you interested in building?

[Gary Kvasnicka]

I built this last year, it took approx 250 hours including milling the strips (bead and cove). I enjoyed every minute of it, so much so, I have the lumber and plans for a smaller one, for my daughter.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=83956&stc=1&d=1205374692
Check out this website, lots of pictures, and instruction. If you have any questions on Kayak building, PM me I will be happy to answer what I can.
http://www.oneoceankayaks.com

[Tyler Howell]

Creeker Dave Richards built a fine sailing craft. He is not very active now but has a lot of threads if you do a search on his name.

[Jim Creech]

I have built a number of small craft and have thoroughly enjoyed all of them. As a matter of interest, SMC founder Ol' Keith has asked me to moderate a boatbuilding forum which I will in all probabilty do.

[MATT HASSMER]

i would like to build a 16' to 19' v-bottom center console. i've seen some plans that i like on bateau.com. one the posts above was for a site where a gentleman used luan from local hardware store. on his site, he mentioned a delamination that occurred which i have been told is a result of voids in standard plywood as opposed to little or no voids in marine plywood. marine ply is really espensive & i was kinda looking for some other alternatives; i guess you get what you pay for. i did find an inexpensive marine ply, but there is no distributor in my area & therefore raises the price (adding shipping) to that of the more costly alternatives. i live 1.5 hrs away from hampton/norfolk which is a major shipbuilder area, but i could not find any inexpensive materials available. right now, i'm only doing research & i still have to convince my wife on this venture.

[MATT HASSMER]

awesome. any ideas? suggestions?

[Jim Creech]

I do not believe there is any such thing as " inexpensive materials" however if you must use lumberyard plywood such as lauan you may want to consider fibreglassing the outside osf the hull with 6 oz cloth and epoxy and epoxy saturating the inside of the hull . Most Lauan and other less expensive plywoods are not made with waterproof adhesive and are not very rot resistant. Also consider that you will eventually have your family or close friends aboard and you do not want your boat to come apart. Safety is always of paramount importance.

[MATT HASSMER]

i was referring to a product called Ultraply XL. it is made by the moreland co. it is the most inexpensive plywood that can be used for a marine application. unfortunately, no one sells it near me. i've read other net entries that say you can use A/C grade ply since the wood would be encapsulated in fiberglass.

[John Hain]

For a boat that size with a center console, you'll want to do the job right. For that, you'll want to treat the exterior with fiberglass cloth and epoxy. Certainly, I think you want to epoxy coat the interior. You could try "waterproofing" the boat with other solutions, but when the water is combined with prolonged UV exposure, the wood will really start to go downhill.

That would be the less expensive option for fiberglass reinforcement. The problem is, it doesn't look very good compared to higher priced options. But it certainly does not look bad by any stretch, especially with good preparation, technique and sanding. You can then varnish it so desired.

That's my amateur opinion. Certainly, others will offer better solutions than my "poorman's" techniques. I built my jonboat for the purpose of getting around swamps and shallow lakes for bass fishing when I lived down south.

[Gary Kvasnicka]

Matt,

Check out this one it's called Ocean Pointer. It's the one I plan to start after the kids finish college in three or four years.
www.by-the-sea.com/stimsonmarine/smplans.html (http://www.by-the-sea.com/stimsonmarine/smplans.html)

Cheers,
Gary

[Jim Creech]

Matt,
I checked out the plans Gary provided the link to and she appears to be a fine vessel indeed. Being strip planked instead of plywood presents an entirely different construction approach cost wise as planking material can be purchased and cut as needed ( a few boards at a time). Tradiationally strip planking calls for boards to be ripped to a given width and a bead and cove routed on each edge and attached to frames. This process allows for only a few boards to keep you busy for a week or so although it is always easier to do all your machining at one time. Keep researching plans and I am certain that any Creeker with any boatbuilding experience (including myself ) will be more than happy to assist any way we can.:)

[MATT HASSMER]

For a boat that size with a center console, you'll want to do the job right. For that, you'll want to treat the exterior with fiberglass cloth and epoxy. Certainly, I think you want to epoxy coat the interior. You could try "waterproofing" the boat with other solutions, but when the water is combined with prolonged UV exposure, the wood will really start to go downhill.

That would be the less expensive option for fiberglass reinforcement. The problem is, it doesn't look very good compared to higher priced options. But it certainly does not look bad by any stretch, especially with good preparation, technique and sanding. You can then varnish it so desired.

That's my amateur opinion. Certainly, others will offer better solutions than my "poorman's" techniques. I built my jonboat for the purpose of getting around swamps and shallow lakes for bass fishing when I lived down south.

so, the most expensive part of this endeavor would be the glassing of the hull?

[Jim Creech]

Matt,
Glassing the hull is a relatively inexpensive process. You only need one layer of cloth and a gallon or so of epoxy depending on the boat size. If you are going to break down the the total cost of the boat ,I thinlk you will find that a boat is much like a new car. You can get a bare hull fairly reasonable. It's the outfitting and rigging that will really set you back! Considering the type of boat you are looking at I would venture to guess that the single most expensive part of this project would be the outboard motor.Additional high end items such as controls, steering gear and trailer will also need to be considered in your overall project budget (even decent used stuff can be fairly expensive).

[Joseph Peacock]

Cool.I have never seen a homemade boaat before.:cool:

[David Schnegg]

There are a lot of people that have built their own boats. From Kayaks to Yachts...

I bought plans for the following boat:
http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=PH18


The following site has many plans available for all kinds of boats:
http://www.bateau.com/

Another very good site for boat plans is:
http://glen-l.com/

Here's an amazing example of what you can build... with enough money and patience:
http://glen-l.com/picboards/picboard15/pic744a.html

[Andy Livingston]

I am currently building a 16 ft. cedar strip canoe. I've been working on it for about 6 months now (maybe longer). I am only able to get to it every other week or so, but it is a very fun project. I hope this forum does well! It will be fun to see other boat building projects.

[Glenn Clabo]

Pictures Andy...we need pictures.:D

[Alister Orme]

http://www.orme.com/boat/IMG_10169.JPGhttp://www.orme.com/boat/boat1.JPG


Here is mine from 2006.

[David Sharp]

You may want to look at a building method called cold-molding. It is basically strips of wood or plywood laid diagonally and bedded in epoxy. WEST system used to put out books on the subject. There have been many boats built with a/c fir plywood. Usable life is acceptable with regular maintenance. As has been noted the wood is the cheap part. The bronze and monel fastenings get expensive quick.

[Jim Creech]

Beautiful boat Alister! Is that your design?
Regarding David's post, he is quite right. In the marine world , little things such as fasteners that most disregard can be crucial as well as expensive.

[John Bailey]

Here is mine from 2006.




Alister,

Great looking boat. Is it electric? And what's that guy in the background up to?

John

[Per Swenson]

Nice Boats all,

Boats, we have big plans.

Plans, get it?

Its like this, the running joke around here, from

Grandfather to Grandson, with my wiseacre mouth in the middle,

usually runs like this.....

I think we should restore this Piano....before or after the canoe?

I want to drop a 327 in my Jeep....before or after the canoe?

Son this shack is a steal, we can renovate it.....

Before or after the canoe?....

And when I say running, try 25 years. Check that, 35 years.

Dreams.

Its good to have 'em but delusions are forever.

Per

[Karl Brogger]

Here's a series of pictures of a F16 class catamaran from start to floating.


http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=11955

[Per Swenson]

Karl.

That's just amazing.

You guys are gonna get me inspired.

Per

[Jim Creech]

John,
It appears as though he is attempting to windsurf!:)

[Alister Orme]

The boat is a Penobscot 17 designed by arch davis if you google him he has plans for several boats and offers excellent support via phone for all those questions you have during the build
It is powered in the picture by a trolling motor that was torn apart and mounted in the rudder.it can also be rowed and sailed
The guy in the back ground was learning to wind surf.

[Brian Kent]

Looks fun, but I'll just be watching. My wife (wisely) blesses my woodworking as long as I don't build a boat. I don't know what I don't know.;)

[Angus Hines]

I have never built a boat. But most of what I do is boat related.

[Bob Feeser]

I built one with my Dad when I was 16. It was called a P38. The plans were from Popular Mechanics. It was 13'9" long, and would do 38 miles an hour with a 25 Johnson on the back with a speed prop. My brother built the transom, keel, and ribs that make up the framework under the bow in high school wood shop. Then the school year ended, he graduated, and my Dad and myself finished it in the garage over the summer. It was fast looking. Pointed bow, the gunnels on the sides swooped to a slope as they met the transom. We did a lot of soaking, and bending of marine ply to get it all to work. The plans called for $38 dollars worth of materials, but we spent closer to 200. We beefed up the transom. I only called for 3/4 ply, we doubled it. All the seams were epoxied. The hull was a thicker grade also. Finally we got it done.
Let me back up for a minute. My parents had a place in Somers Point NJ. We would go every summer. All of my friends had boats. My dad had a 14 foot runabout that we would go fishing together on, but I wasn't old enough at the time to take it farther then the end of the lagoon. but my brother took it out on the bay, whereas he was older. When I finally got old enough to use it, it sank. A storm came up, and when we went down to see how it did, it was on the bottom of the lagoon. The motor was shot. Never did get it going again.
So then I saw the plans for the P38. I was ecstatic. My friends thought I was exaggerating. Anyhow, to make a long story short, the boat finally got done. All we needed was a motor and trailer, and my parents decided to sell the shore home. They had enough of 2 homes, and doing the laundry for the guests. So I never got to use the boat. It sat for a year on the back patio, and my Mom put the foot down, we had to sell it. We didn't even recover the cost of materials.
By now you must be feeling sad for me. All those years of staring out on the water while my friends were dancing around on the 13' Boston Whalers, with up to 45 hp engines. I did get to do some boating with them, and my Dad was always taking me out on his friends cruiser for some deep sea fishing.
Well to make a long story short. You know what happens to men when they hit 40. They go out and do something crazy. So I decided to fulfill my childhood dream. I bought a Donzi. It is an 18 foot pocket rocket that does 70 on the water, and acts like a ballet dancer. It weighs 2700 pounds, which is a lot for an 18 foot boat. It has a 350 magnum Mercruiser with 270 hp. It rumbles. I bought it in 1989 only 2 years old. If I told you what they were going for new, and what I was able to buy this one for, I would have to put a gloat warning on the post. A little mini gloat is that they only make 40 of this model per year in an 18. All the glass is hand laid, and they let it cool overnight before they pop it out of the mold. They let it cool first so it doesn't warp. The mold for this boat was created in 1964. Ok, Ok, I will stop talking about it. I really love this boat. I was around boats a lot, and spent more time then I care to admit, sanding and refinishing the Chris Craft runabout. Mahogany is the wood of choice for boat building.
This is getting long, but I will come back to this new category many times I am sure. Here is a couple of pictures of the Donzi.
http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/5230/2277173170100733997S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/4061/2646887830100733997S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/3795/2735460910100733997S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/24619/2000517330100733997S600x600Q85.jpg

[Ray Mighells]

I just found this thread and it sure brings back memories. I built 3 of the Glen L boats and had a great time building them with hand tools, a sabre saw and 7" circular saw. Had a great time using them too. I started with a 10' hydro, Super Spartan; put a 40HP OB on it. Next was a 14' day sailor with a 19'6" mast. Topped it off with the 16' ski boat Stiletto and hung a 135 HP Evinrude OB on it. None of them had any wood in them over 8' long. Everything was plywood and glued up to make longer pieces. Half dimension and lapped joints. Building up the sailboat mast was tricky because the sail track was built into it. I glassed them good and used Travco Epoxy resin. Good Stuff. I retired from the US Army Jun 1971 in Korea and went to work for the Army. I built the boats in 1972 in my yard using all Korean made plywood. I bought all the fasteners and hardware from Glen L. Had the ski boat in the water by the time the ice was off the water, bought gas from the Army 1K gallons at a time for $.12 per gallon. I was allowed 1K gallons a month, and sometimes it wasn't enough. Under a full moon we could ski 24 hrs a day. I left Korea the end of 76 and the boats were still in good shape. Last time I saw the ski boat was in83 and it was showing some wear being used in a commercial operation.

[John Powers]

woodenboat.com is a wealth of info. Also, there are several methods. Bateau plans are I recall for "stitch and glue". you actually cut out the pieces and stitch them together with wire and use thickend epoxy to build up "fillets" in the seams. Quick and bombproof. It can be extremely messy until you get the learning curve down. There are more traditional methods that call for more skills and precision. I have plans for a small row/sail boat waiting for spring. The 11 foot rowboat from Bateau plans is used a lot. No matter what you build it will take easily 2 or 3 times longer to build than you think.

[Bob Feeser]

When I was growing up I was always fascinated with the idea of building a hydroplane. They are small, I think they are only about 9 feet long, and meant for one thing; speed. With only a 10, 15, or 20 hp motor they could do 40 or more. The weigh practically nothing, use very little fuel, have a flat bottom on them, so you don't want to use them on choppy water, a glass smooth lake is ideal. The advantage is that they use up a lot less wood. You can make them as fancy or plain as you like. You can transport them very easily on a roof rack, with a motor in the back of the truck or van. They take such a small motor that you can pick one up used for cheap. No trailer needed. They do not take up much storage space.
It is kind of a shame to build just one. If you had a buddy who would like to participate, you could get together with them, and build 2 in not much more time then it would take to build one.
There are all kinds of plans out there to build one. Just a thought.

[Stu Boughton]

I built a 16' Chestnut Prospector from Bear Mountain plans. It was great therapy to offset work "stuff". I think I'm sane again.

Stu

[Gary Kvasnicka]

Great job on that Prospector! I have a copy of Canoecraft, I plan on lofting up a Prospector from the offset tables in the book. That is next years project as I am just starting on a kayak for my daughter.

Cheers,
Gary

[Bob Feeser]

What a beauty that Prospector is. The hull is fabulous, you obviously took the time to pick the pieces to create a balanced pattern. It just draws you into it. You probably get more attention in that handcrafted beauty then most everything else on the water. That is the advantage of custom woodwork, it is real, fabulous, it is nature.

[Stu Boughton]

Thanks for the kind comments, guys. Yes, it does draw some attention on the water. The hull started out life as some 1x6 red cedar, purchased from a fence company! A little time with the band saw, planer and router gave me the strips. Other woods included are poplar, cherry, ash and english sycamore.

Stu

[MATT HASSMER]

were the plans you got from bateau.com already lofted?

[Robert Fordham]

I have build two boats from Bateau.

Their method is Stich and glue and there is no lofting required for their boats.

Do not go cheap on you wood, glue, or paint selections. All the worry and sweat and money you put into these projects will rot away after 5 years if you go cheap.

These boats need to be maintained, fresh paint every few years, fix any scratches in epoxy coatings, etc.

My first boat is delaminating due to cheap luan from HD.

My second boat was made fom BS1088 marine ply, covered in FG and is still strong. I have made several repairs from trailer damage.

If the total boat costs $2,000 to build and the wood cost is $400 = 20% why try to save $100 by getting cheap ply? Your $2000 investment will fall apart over time.

When you add your labor cost ( many hours ) that $100 savings will appear rediculous.

[Kurt Loup]

Here are a few canoes and kayaks I have built. You can't stop at one.

Kurt

http://www.loup-garou.net/sitebuilder/images/up-600x451.jpg
Carrying Place Canoes Chemaunis

http://www.loup-garou.net/sitebuilder/images/outerisland-650x207.jpg
Outer Island

http://www.loup-garou.net/sitebuilder/images/finishedviewtoprear2-438x329.jpg
Squeedunk Cormorant

http://www.loup-garou.net/May27quarterview.JPG
Northwest Canoes Merlin

[MATT HASSMER]

wow. i didn't realize their boats needed that kind of maintanence; even with quality materials. you have to paint it every few years? do you just paint over the old paint + any crack/abrasion repairs? i may do better rehabing a used hull. i like the look of the Manatees & have seen some on ebay.

[Scott Velie]

Buy yourself a copy of woodenboat magazine and have a look in the back at the "plans and kits" section.
Woodenboat also has a school
http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/

I spent a whole summer there and highly recommend them. Brooklyn ME is a center for woodenboatbuilding on the east coast with many boat builders and boatyards.

[Scott Velie]

"There is nothing-http://www.messingabout.com/images/dot_clear.gif absolutely nothing-
half so muchhttp://www.messingabout.com/images/dot_clear.gif worth doing
as simplyhttp://www.messingabout.com/images/dot_clear.gif messing about in boats." (Kennith Graham)
If I was you the logical way to decide is First decide what you want to use it for and then which construction method. Once you decide those then pick your plans.
For your first boat I would use one of the easier construction methods like Strip built or stitch and glue. I don't think you want to build a plank on frame for your first boat even if it is caravel planked and not lapstrake.
There is also cold moulding as someone suggested but unless you have a lot of epoxy experience and vacuum bagging equipment the size of the boat I would not choose that.

[Jim Creech]

I am inclined to agree with Scott. Probably the hardest part of choosing a design and method of building is being honest with yourself! How much boat do I really need? How much time (and money) do I have to devote to this project? Are my skills up the the method chosen? I most certainly do not wish to discourage anyone from trying their hand at boatbuilding. It is great fun (to me) and as mentioned earlier, very addictive. Just don't get in over your head! In the unfortunate event you do become overwhelmed I am certain anyone here at the Creek will be more than happy to assist!

P.S. If you haven't already done so, set a few bucks aside and become a contributor to the Creek!!!
I

[Neal Schlee]

Matt,

Check out my website, www.skiffkits.com (http://www.skiffkits.com)

We produce kits etc. for the 3 versions of Tolman Skiffs, 18' - 24', open to full cabin. Tolman Skiffs have a cult like following worldwide, excellent hull design, designed for Alaska's coastal waters. Hundred's have been built.
We sell Renn Tolman's book "Tolman Alaskan Skiffs", it has book form plans and complete building instructions for all 3 of his designs. Tolman skiffs are designed for the home builder, Mr. Tolman has perfected an easy, fast construction schedule that allows first time boat builders to complete a great boat. Visit the Tolman Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tolmanskiff/

Neal Schlee
Skiffkits LLC
Lasertech Alaska

[Martin King]

Here's a pic of a boat my father built in his garage.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/cruizin31/sailingweb.jpg

She's built in cold molded wood/epoxy.

[Pete Thomas(UK)]

I rebuilt this one over 2 1/2 years . Original built in 1889. Lots of fun.
84674

[Jim Creech]

To all who have submitted pictures, beautiful boats indeed! I must admit that I am partial to paddeling, rowing and sailing craft ( There must be some bad karma between myself and the internal ,or is it infernal, combustion engine as I have never had any great sucess with them).Irregardless of your propulsion system, have fun and make sure you know where the Head is. We don't want any accidents out there!:)

[John Zee]

Some of the boats... or ummm...


http://www.yachtmati.com/



































But then I woke up.

[MATT HASSMER]

[quote=Robert Fordham;807297]
These boats need to be maintained, fresh paint every few years, fix any scratches in epoxy coatings, etc.

quote]
Robert,

do they really need to be maintained like this if they are encapsulated in fiberglass? what is their structural strength like since there isn't a stem & ribbing, per se?

[Jim Creech]

Matt,
Regarding maintenance, be advised that all boats (even fibreglass)require some degree of upkeep. In the case of a woodenboat encapsulated in epoxy, scratches deep enough to penetrate to the wood will allow moisture to get to the wood and cause rot. Additionally, epoxy is not very resistant to UV therefore the paint or varnish must be maintained to ensure maximum protection. As for all fibreglass boats, the relatively thin outer coating of "Gelcoat'" is also a protective barrier against moisture. Any scratches deep enough will allow moisture to permeate the glass cloth and eventually cause blistering or delamination. If for no other reason a fresh coat of paint helps keep the boat in Bristol condition.

[Lawrence Smith]

I have built several boats the latest being a 10 1/2 foot Wherry. It is one of the most satisfying projects I ever did. The plans came from Walter Simmons located in Lincolnville Beach Maine. His website is Ducktrap Woodworking.com. He is very helpful and has the patience of a saint when it comes to helping you with something you do not understand about the plans. I recommend you check out his website.

I also attended the Wooden Boat School in Brooklin Maine and took a two week course in the fundamentals of boat building. That was very helpful in getting my first boat completed. You will not be sorry you attended the school. It was a wonderful experience and I am looking forward to going back again. But be careful, boatbuilding is contagious and you cannot stop at just one.

Good Luck, hope this helps.

[Bob Feeser]

mystery shot

http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/4063/2027581550098837763S600x600Q85.jpg

[MATT HASSMER]

Can You Build The Boats Outside Or Do You Need More Climate Control Than Just A Tarp To Keep It From Getting Rained On?

[Jim Creech]

Matt,
Yes, boats can (and are) built outside. The only serious consideration about weather is one of materials resistance to both UV (sunlight) and moisture (rain). As mentioned earlier, some epoxies, if your are using them , have a low tolerance and should not be exposed to prolonged periods of exposure without some protection. Second, you do not want your wood exposed to the elements for too long. You probably already know what sort of results you can expect. Keep a tarp over it when not working on it and you should be fine. Third, power tools and rain don't get on that well! Do exercise some caution in that respect!
Have you decided on a boat design yet?

[MATT HASSMER]

well, i've narrowed it down to 2 designs from bateau.com. it will either be the FS14 or the OB15. i'd like to eventually build a 17'-23' boat, but given the fact that i have a 6 yr old, a 1 yr old, & one due the end of the month... i'm gonna go with one that may not take as long to build & won't take up as much space. i'd like to build a center console for whichever one i choose. My son loves going fishing & it's tough for me to take him places where he'll actually catch something because most of the bank-fishing spots are overfished. i know several spots on the Chickahominy River, the York River, The James River, the Mattaponi, & the Pamunkey, but i need a boat to get to them. i also figured pay for materials & building a boat would be easier & more economical than plunking down a hefty chunk of change for a new or used production boat. Do you fish around Smithfield

[Bob Smalser]

well, i've narrowed it down to 2 designs from bateau.com. it will either be the FS14 or the OB15. i'd like to eventually build a 17'-23' boat, but given the fact that i have a 6 yr old, a 1 yr old, & one due the end of the month... i'm gonna go with one that may not take as long to build & won't take up as much space....

I recommend you consider restoring one for starters. Look around, find an older woodie and go over every inch of it with an icepick to find any bad wood. You'll get much more boat for your money, will be using it faster, and will learn all the things not to do in boatbuilding.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/312601888.jpg

This 1959 mahogany plywood 19' runabout cost 350 bucks....less than its trailer and Johnson 35 OB are worth. All it needs is a fresh sheet of Meranti ply for the foredeck, a new windshield, new canvas and some paint.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/37546443.jpg

I paid a grand for this Hartley trailer sailer....an unfinished project that sat in a barn for 30 years until the builder (who lost interest) died. It came with trailer, spars, sails and Seagull OB. But it still cost me 120 manhours and over half the purchase price to complete it. It woulda been around 800 manhours done from scratch.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59377952.jpg

All I had to do was build the interior, fit the boat out, add electrics for safety and do some cosmetics.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4639129/58453668.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4639129/58622485.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59627845.jpg

Even the trailer was restorable.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59367496.jpg

A real cutie. One of the best plywood home builder designs.

[Jim Creech]

Matt,
Bob does bring up a valid alternative. The only real issue is that around here, old woodies can be hard to find. Especially something like you are looking for. I would recommend that you use a small hammer and tap test for bad wood rather than use an icepick. Especially if you haven't acquired the boat yet. Some folks take a dim view of others poking around their boat with a sharp instrument! Another thing you should take into consideration if you elect to explore this option is ,in the event you find a suitable boat and should find some bad wood, where is it? It's one thing to replace a rotten foredeck or transom and quite another to replace a keelson as Bob, obviously an experienced boatbuilder/restorer can attest to.
P.S. I have a hard enough time catching a cold much less a fish!

[MATT HASSMER]

Actually, I had been looking at the FS17 as well. Looks like no one has built one or at least, no one has submitted pics of their own on their site. It looks like it would use the same amt of wood as the OB15, but i'd get a bigger boat http://bateau.com/studyplans/FS17_study.htm?prod=FS17. Looks like it would be more fiberglassing, but this is more like what I'm looking for. Plus, I can fit it the way I want & there's an option to make the sides 6" higher as well. I would opt for the center console option. One day, I'd like to build bigger boat with a cuddy cabin or pilot house. One day, we plan on moving to/near the Bay; somewhere on the water & it'd be nice to have a bigger boat to take family out. I like the cuddy cabin/pilot house plans because some of my family really don't do well out in the sun.
=-)

[MATT HASSMER]

I am also always cruising e-bay motors & craigslist for used & inexpensive boats/hulls. I don't know if it would be easier to rehab than to build, though. Sounds like there are pro's & con's to each. I'm thinking it would be easier to start from scratch that to repair something already built. Thoughts?

[Bob Smalser]

I'm thinking it would be easier to start from scratch that to repair something already built. Thoughts?

I post a lot of pictures to provide an idea of what you have to buy besides wood, and what you'll have to make in anything more complicated than a bare bones canoe or skiff. Powerboats use pretty much the same quantity of expensive goodies, they are just different goodies like motors, tanks, rails, windshields and controls.

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It's amazing how much money building from scratch adds up to. I stopped counting finishing out this simple dory, made all the wood and much of the metal fitments myself and I bought the remaining bronze hardware used on eBay.

You can't buy retail wood and West Marine fitments and can't come out much ahead of a storebought boat, let alone restoring an older boat in middling condition. It's often worth a week's vacation time and long road trip to find the right one. Surveying an open boat doesn't require an special expertise. Moisture meters can find rot almost as well as ice picks.

I'd much rather build from scratch than restore, but if you need a boat for the family to use in the near term, finding the right oldie is cheapest and most efficient in manhours by far. Then once you have a boat to use, you can take more time and care building your next one from scratch.

I'd also like to wean you from the idea of plywood, as using the real thing is more fun. But that depends on whether you live in an area with local sawmills and the right trees.

[MATT HASSMER]

Definitely food for thought. I don't have a timeline on this & I figure that instead of plunking down a chunk of change for a new/used boat, I could pay as I build & get the boat that I want by building it myself. I could build in whatever additional bait boxes, storage/stowage, & seat configuration I wanted (within reason of course). I figured it would take me a while to build it or it would take me a while to pay for it. Either way it's a waiting game, but building it would give me bragging rights as well.

[Bob Smalser]

I don't know if it would be easier to rehab than to build, though.

Other than replacing the stem and keel, there is little restoration on a wooden boat that isn't within your capacity now with a little coaching. Restoring one involves measuring the boat for true and correcting if necessary, just one of dozens of practice events for lofting, layout and spiling later.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/8408305/113106749.jpg

This Meranti ply lapstrake pram was headed for the dumpster because of extensive rot and three inches of twist in the hull.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/8408305/113344752.jpg

Repair is simply a matter of saw, feather the hull and a matching patch, glue and fair one problem at a time:

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To remove the twist I removed all the knees, pulled the boat into place on a strongback, and added new, stringer knees:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/8408305/113944400.jpg

An efficient method to get out knees is to steam strips in place til they take a set, then laminate in place using slip sheets followed by removal, cleanup and final installation:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/8408305/310983859.jpg

The result in 30 manhours turned firewood into a boat with decades of life remaining.

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[Joe LeFevre]

Matt, I have not built a boat yet, although 8 years ago, I attended a two week introduction to wooden boat building class at WoodenBoat headquarters in Maine. I totally enjoyed the class and have had the urge to build a wooden boat since then. Eventually I will, but not in the near future. Since attending the school, I have been a regular subscriber to WoodenBoat magazine, an excellent bi-monthly publication. The magazine is full of information, including sources for kits. It's up to you to decide how much effort and money you want to put into the project and this magazine can help you sort out things. :D

[Allan Froehlich]

Did any of you not use full-length strips to build your boats?

My Kayak Story:

About a year ago, I was delivering pizzas when I drove past this one house where I recognized the sound of an orbital sander. I looked to the left and there I saw a garage with about 10 completed boats on one side and another under construction on the other side. I was so caught up in the sight that I couldn't find the house a mile down the road that I was delviering to, despite the guy being a regular.

So, I stopped at the house on the way back. I was about as excited as a 10-year old with a new xbox. I walked up to the guy and said "It is so awesome to know that there are other people around here who wants to build kayaks too!" I had a really big smile at this point!

BUT, the guy said, "I'm sorry to tell you this, but the gentleman who owns these boats and tools just passed away two weeks ago. Mabey you would like all of these forms and tools."

So, I have about 15 templates now to build kayaks and canoes. I've seen many of the plans offered by different companies.

I think that I will build a Peterboro for my first canoe, but I want to shorten the front and rear so that it is a bit smaller and easier for me to move around.

[Jim Creech]

Allan,
For my canoes I always use full length strips. As I am not into kayaking I haven't built one.
The Peterborough is an excellent all purpose canoe and a wise choise. I would however caution you as to shortening the length. Anymore than about 10% will have an impact on the boats handling and stability characteristics. Rather than shortening the bow and stern, just place the station moulds closer together. Remember you only have about 10% to play with. Been there , Done that, Got the tee shirt!

[Gary Kvasnicka]

Allan,
I used 12' strips on my 18' kayak. I scarfed the sheer strips, most others I butt jointed on a station, being careful not to have joints fall on the same station. I used bead & cove strips which helps hold the joints in line. Also, as I milled the strips I kept the strips in order of the way they were ripped from the board. This helped with color and grain matching of the western red cedar. There are many joints that are hard to find...and a few that are... well not so hard
Cheers,
Gary

[Jim Creech]

Matt,
I have spent the last few days reviewing Bob's comments and recommendations and I have to agree with all.
One comment he did make about being in an area with both sawmills and the right trees pretty much tells the story. Southestern Va lacks what Bob has in his backyard. Most if not all of suitable boat lumber is imported from either the northeast or northwest. As a result the price of what is available is out of reach for most working people. Even marine grade ply is out of sight. I do envy the resources he has readily available.
Irregardless whether you choose to build from scratch or restore, It's ultimately your boat and your decision. Keep us posted (with pictures)
Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Pictures- Something a father carries in his wallet where his money used to be!

[Bob Smalser]

Plywood is a state of mind.

Virginia is abundant in:

Black Locust for frames.
White Oak for frames.
Black Walnut for frames and transoms.
Black Cherry for frames and transoms.
Apple for knees.
Sassafras for planking.
Atlantic White Cedar for planking harvested from coastal NC to NJ.
Doug Fir construction lumber and Western Red Cedar are sold nation wide.

All are durable woods.

Solid wood takes a bit longer than plywood, but from a local sawyer is less expensive yet the resulting boat is both worth more dollarwise and will stand the eventual abuse boats get much better than ply. It's also a helluva lot more pleasant to work.

Doug Fir construction lumber can be had these days for as little as 80 cents a bf. Buy 2X12's thru 18' ....mills save their best logs for long joists and rafters....and you can highgrade these into lovely VG heartwood for frames, transoms, thwarts and rails:

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The notion that carvel boats don't make good trailer boats because they dry out and leak until they take up is nonsense. That's true for older boats with planks worn out from compression set, but get the moisture content right in a new boat and it will remain leak free forever on a trailer. Just don't leave it in the water for more than a couple weeks. And if you need a trailer boat capable of being moored for extended periods, double planking with tarred canvas in between the layers is the way to go. Double planking a flat-bottomed skiff of Garvey isn't a big job, either. Caulking small boats is child's play and can be done using a pizza cutter.

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If you live anywhere near the woods in most parts of the country, plywood simply isn't necessary.

[Jim Creech]

Bob,
Pizza cutter???
What kind of pizza do they serve you guys out there? Over here pizza cutters are a little to sharp for caulking purposes ( I will admit however to occasionaly using mine to trim veneers).
As for the lumber, the key word is locally available. The majority of mills are in the western part of the state and are a 4 to 6 hour drive one way."Locally" about an hour away, the only place selling boat material is commanding top dollar. Everyone else is doing treated landscape timber and warped 2 x 4's. If you know someone in the Hampton Roads area, let me know. I haven't found them yet!

[Bob Smalser]

The Forestry Forum
Sawmill and Milling Services Database
Country=USA Sell Lumber=yes State/Province=Virginia Custom Saw=yes
Company Name
State/Province
City


Beechnut Hollow Portable Milling Virginia Oak Grove

Brookside Farm Portable Sawmill Service Virginia Charlottesville

Fawcett Woodworking Virginia Covington

Got Logs? Virginia Remington

Portable Sawmill Services Virginia Hampton

Rocking K West Virginia Valley Grove

Skyhawk Custom Sawing Virginia Williamsburg

Slider Saw Mills West Virginia Fairmont

Westfork Wood Works West Virginia Weston

The Forestry Forum
Sawmill and Milling Services Database
Country=USA Sell Lumber=yes State/Province=North_Carolina Custom Saw=yes
Company Name
State/Province
City


Beaver Branch Saw mill North_Carolina Burgaw

Edwards Custom Sawmilling and Lumber North_Carolina Iron Station

Feltz's Sawmill North_Carolina Raeford

Have Saw Will Travel North_Carolina Saluda

Heartwood Milling North_Carolina Candor

H&W Custom Cut Lumber North_Carolina Waxhaw

H&W Custom Cut Lumber North_Carolina Waxhaw

Murdock Building & Portable Sawmill North_Carolina Rolesville

Peterson & Sons Sawmill North_Carolina Yanceyville

Weeksville Wood Worx North_Carolina Weeksville / Elizabeth City

Whispering Pines Farm North_Carolina New Hill



North Carolina postal code: 27946
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Directory ID Number: 1249
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Description: I can handle logs 32" dia. 20 ft long. Eastern NC and southern VA areas.


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Address: 328 South Mills rd Moyock North Carolina 27958
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Directory ID Number: 1356
Website: http://www.currituckmillworks.com

Description: We provide full service portable sawmilling,tree removal, and stump grinding to Northeastern NC and Southeastern VA. SAWMILLING IS OUR SPECIALTY!


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Company Name: Moores Wood
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Jeff Moore
Address: 493 waters rd bostic North Carolina 28018
Phone: 828-289-7634
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Directory ID Number: 1153
Website:

Description: Moores Wood Operates a stationary bandmill. We provide quality hardwoods lumber, framing, mantels,and custom sawing.to the surrounding area.


North Carolina postal code: 28078
Company Name: Edwards Custom Sawmilling and Lumber
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Kyle Edwards
Address: 107 Huntersridge Road Huntersville North Carolina 28078
Phone: 704-875-8901
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Directory ID Number: 1078
Website: http://www.sawmillnc.com

Description: I am a full cycle small sawyer that can process logs to lumber to kiln and through molding and other specialty products.


North Carolina postal code: 28173
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Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Randy
Address: 10800 Waxhaw Hwy Waxhaw North Carolina 28173
Phone: 704-243-1318
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Directory ID Number: 1765
Website: http://woodbutchernc.tripod.com/

Description: Custom Cut Lumber, logs upto 31"X23'


North Carolina postal code: 28376
Company Name: Feltz's Sawmill
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Eric Feltz
Address: 903 Myra Rd Raeford North Carolina 28376
Phone: 910-875-5827
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Directory ID Number: 1174
Website: http://www.ncagr.com/NCproducts/ShowSite.asp?ID=2439

Description: We operate a portable sawmilling and lumber business dedicated to providing services not normally available in the local commercial market.


North Carolina postal code: 28425
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Address: 409 Horse Branch Rd. Burgaw North Carolina 28425
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Directory ID Number: 1544
Website:

Description: PORTABLE SAW MILL 36"X24'


North Carolina postal code: 28451
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Company Contact: Jesse H. Jarrell
Address: 430 Bluff Hill Drive Navassa North Carolina 28451
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Directory ID Number: 1762
Website: http://www.capefearriverwood.com

Description: Eco-friendly business specializing in river recovered heart pine flooring. Building Recovered Heart Pine, saw mill and other finish milling availble.


North Carolina postal code: 28532
Company Name: Charlie's sawmill
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Company Contact: Charles Ewing
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Fax: 252 652 4616
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Directory ID Number: 1701
Website:

Description: Can custom cut to 24',3ft. dia. Mostly yellow pine or your own logs.


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Address: Scotts Creek Rd Statesville North Carolina 28625
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Directory ID Number: 1197
Website:

Description: WE can Turn Your Logs Into Lumber with the ability of Kiln Drying


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Address: 8825 hwy 88e Laurel Springs North Carolina 28644
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Website: http://summitwoodworks.com

Description: We offer onsite custom milling.


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Address: PO BOX 2554 Fairview North Carolina 28730
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Website: http://www.mountainsawyers.com

Description: We are a custom based sawyer, specializing in custom molding and lumber. We can saw on location, for more information please check our webpage.


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Website:

Description: We provide custom cut rough green lumber, small or large orders, grade material, ability of 20' material form various hardwoods.


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Company Contact: Nathan Schomber
Address: P.O. Box 1529 Leicester North Carolina 28748
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Fax: ----
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Directory ID Number: 1725
Website:

Description: We come to your location and saw your logs to your specifications. We generally travel within a 60 mile radius around the Asheville,N.C. area.


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Company Contact: Shane McConnell
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Directory ID Number: 1402
Website:

Description: Small, one man operation specializing in custom sawing.Call me for all of your lumber needs. If I can't help you, I probably know someone who can.


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Directory ID Number: 1087
Website:

Description: We do custom sawing and moulding.Our specialty is in log homes.


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Phone: 828-768-1364
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1678
Website:

Description: We offer complete tree to trim services. We take your tree down and use our portable mill to turn it into useable lumber.


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Address: 300 Kent St Andrews North Carolina 28901
Phone: 800-586-LOGS
Fax: 828-321-0827
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Directory ID Number: 1500
Website: http://www.thelegacyadvantage.com

Description: Concentration Yard, 400mbf Kiln Capacity,S2S,S4S,SLR,gang rip, custom milling and drying. Export prep. Processing Hardwoods, Softwood, and Exotics


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Company Name: Beck
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Kenneth
Address: 300 Main St. Purcellville Virginia 20132
Phone: 540-338-5290
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1483
Website:

Description: Custom Sawing at Your Place or Mine


Virginia postal code: 22314
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Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Brian Peterson
Address: 2732 Monacan St Alexandria Virginia 22314
Phone: 724-272-0614
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1187
Website:

Description: Portable Sawmill, Custom Sawing, Kiln Drying, Timber Acquisitions Covering VA,WV,PA,MD


Virginia postal code: 22443
Company Name: Beechnut Hollow Portable Milling
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Troy Lancaster
Address: 477 Bristol Mine Rd. Oak Grove Virginia 22443
Phone: 240-925-9030
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1394
Website:

Description: Portable swingmill operation with ability to custom mill and slab large logs at your location or mine.


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Company Name: WoodHelvin, Inc.
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Wayne Ayers
Address: 8961 Fox Run Drive Spotsylvania Virginia 22553
Phone: 540-854-6452
Fax: 540-854-4123
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Directory ID Number: 1368
Website:

Description: Portable bandsaw sawmilling at your site or ours. Small or Large lots. No firm pricing without inspection of your logs. Small lot Kiln Drying.


Virginia postal code: 22611
Company Name: Green Hill Woodworks Inc.
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Logan and Todd
Address: Stringtown Rd Berryville Virginia 22611
Phone: 540-955-1567
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1767
Website: http://www.greenhillwoodworks.com

Description: Run a portable sawmill operation, that will cut your logs at your location.


Virginia postal code: 22630
Company Name: Whitehead Studios
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Brian Whitehead
Address: Catlett Mtn Rd Front Royal Virginia 22630
Phone: 540-635-6603
Fax: 540-635-6603
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Directory ID Number: 1401
Website: http://www.whiteheadstudios.com

Description: Custom Millwork, Sawmill, Kiln Drying


Virginia postal code: 22630
Company Name: Whitehead Artisan Studios
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: B. Whitehead
Address: Catlett Mn Rd Front Royal Virginia 22630
Phone: 540- 827-4858
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1748
Website: http://whiteheadstudios.com

Description: Offering full processing from log milling to finished lumber, and custom woodwork.


Virginia postal code: 22734
Company Name: Got Logs? LLC
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Dave Buckwalter
Address: 11825 Remington Road Remington Virginia 22734
Phone: 540 439-8598
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1594
Website:

Description: Portable sawmilling serving Nothern VA using thin kerf Wood-Mizer bandmill. Weekends & evenings. No job to small. Kiln drying. Lumber sales. Insured.


Virginia postal code: 22802
Company Name: Willow Run Custom Lumber, Inc.
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Justin Schweitzer
Address: 2225 Fort Lynne Road Harrisonburg Virginia 22802
Phone: 540-433-0317
Fax: 540-433-0317
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Directory ID Number: 1006
Website:

Description: We offer portable and stationary sawmill services of hard and softwoods, specializing in quarter sawing. We also provide custom kiln drying services.


Virginia postal code: 23009
Company Name: O'Dell Custom Sawing
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Richard O'Dell
Address: 482 Hazelwood Road Aylett Virginia 23009
Phone: 804 994-5264
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1107
Website: http://www.odellcustomsawing.com

Description: Portable sawmill offering custom sawing, onsite sawing, and dry kiln services to greater Richmond, VA area.


Virginia postal code: 23053
Company Name: JUST UE HARDWOODS
Services Offered: Sawing Kiln Drying
Company Contact: JEFFERY TRUETT
Address: 125843 BOYKINS Virginia 23053
Phone: 757-620-4517
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1253
Website:

Description: CUSTOM SAWING,KILN DRYING AND MILLING


Virginia postal code: 23139
Company Name: Dreaming Creek Timber Frames
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Bob Shortridge Jr.
Address: 2487 Judes Ferry Road Powhatan Virginia 23139
Phone: 804-598-4328
Fax: 804-598-3748
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Directory ID Number: 1261
Website: http://dreamingcreek.com

Description: Custom sawing to your specifications.


Virginia postal code: 23168
Company Name: CKs Portable LOG MILL
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Cary Kennedy
Address: 9405 Barnes Road Toano Virginia 23168
Phone: 757 566 4727
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1273
Website: http://www.richmondrugby.net/lumber.html

Description: CKs Portable Log Mill service will convert your logs into valuable boards. Have mill will travel.


Virginia postal code: 23837
Company Name: Davis Woodworking
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Michael R. Davis
Address: 22390 Main Street Courtland Virginia 23837
Phone: 757-304-1482
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1521
Website:

Description: Portable sawmill in historic Southampton Co. area, turning your logs into valuable boards


Virginia postal code: 23890
Company Name: Cool Spring Custom Milling
Services Offered: Sawing Grading Kiln Drying
Company Contact: Kevin Bain
Address: 15105 Old Forty Rd. Waverly Virginia 23890
Phone: 804-691-8057
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1308
Website:

Description: Custom sawing at your location or mine. Fully hydraulic bandmill. 24 years experience in hardwood lumber manufacture, inspection and kiln drying.


Virginia postal code: 24064
Company Name: Tree Takedown Services, Inc.
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Trent Badgley
Address: 76 Silverbirch Dr. Blue Ridge Virginia 24064
Phone: 540-977-2260
Fax: Same
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Directory ID Number: 1555
Website:

Description: Custom Sawmilling, on-site sawmilling, tree takedowns, lot clearing,and log removals.


Virginia postal code: 24087
Company Name: Custom Sawyer
Services Offered: Sawing
Company Contact: Robert Wimmer
Address: P. O. Box 244 Elliston Virginia 24087
Phone: 540-268-1803
Fax:
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Directory ID Number: 1419
Website:

Description: Will saw logs and materials from old cabins, barns, etc.