High Angle Frog vs Standard Question

[Rick Lasita]

Leaning more and more towards, or better said, sliding down the slope, to purchase either a LN 4 or 4 1/2. I understand that the high angle frog beds the blade at 50 degrees for wood with a hard to plane grain. I have read a number of posts and articles regarding the HA frog, but never saw anything on how a HA frog works on wood without a change in grain direction, etc. or did I miss something.

So since I can consider only one plane, does the HA frog cover all applications, or should I just stay with the standard and on the rare occasion I run into tough grain, deal with it the best I can. Thanks for the opinions,

Rick

[Dave Anderson NH]

A high angle frog does help quite a bit with tough to plane woods provided you take very light cuts. Often a regular angle of 45 degrees will work just as well if you tighten the mouth, and again, take light cuts. A smoothing plane is for a final finish and never really needs to take off more than .002-.004" at the very most. For the tough stuff around .001-.0015" is even better and increases your chances of success. My whole gist here is that too often folks set the iron too deep.

A York pitch frog works great and is a major part of my arsenal. It will work for regular woods too, but the price is increased effort required to push the plane. This holds true no matter what the wood and its grain structure. Personally I have both the regular pitch and the York pitch for my LN 4 1/2 and switch them out as the need arises. My main 45 degree smoother is my ShepherdTool Co #7 Spiers style infill. The LN 4 1/2 gives me my York pitch, and my Clark & Williams 55 degree coffin smoother fills out the set. I also use a Lee Valley low angle for those woods where nothing else will work.

As for what your choice should be, it depends on what you already have.

[Donnie Raines]

Without a doubt, the LN 4 1/2 is wonderful on almost all types of lumber. The extra mass that the 4 1/2 provides reduces chatter and add's to the planes ability to plow through the lumber. Yes, smaller shavings are best. I have each of the planes you speak of...and the 4 1/2 is used all the time. I use it on figured lumber(all the time) and on "regular" stuff...al with excelllant results(most of the time). There are certain cases(to which I can not explain) that the higher frog does not do well...where a lower angle smoother excel....thus I have one of those, too. Sure, the lower angle lends it's self better to end grain, but, alos for goofy grain swirls and the like. My vote is for the 4 1/2 with the York pitch....tou will not regret it.


DonnieR

[Bob Marino]

Donnie,

Is there really any noticeable difference between the LN 4 and the 4 1/2?

Bob

[Steven Wilson]

Donnie,

Is there really any noticeable difference between the LN 4 and the 4 1/2?

Bob

Yes, the 4 1/2 is a larger and heftier plane than the 4. I often use a 4 1/2 with the regular pitch for smoothing and a bronze #4 with the York pitch for more difficult grain. I also use a Clifton #4 and #3, Steve Knight (55degree IIRC), LN LA Smoother (164), and LN LA Jack (62) for smoothing. Also don't forget scraper planes, the small scraper and cabinet scraper planes (LN 85 and LN 212) work very well for working specific areas where other planes don't.

As for the specific differences between the LN 4 and LN 4 1/2, the LN website states for the #4 "The blade width is 2" by .125 thick. Bodies are 9-1/2" in length, and available in either Bronze (at 4.5lbs) or Cast Iron (at 4 lbs)" and for the #4 1/2 "Blade width is 2-3/8", blade thickness is .140", length of the tool is 10-3/8". Weight is 5-1/2 lbs".

[Donnie Raines]

Bob,

What Steve said.

The extra mass is simply makes it plow easier(assuming that you have the plane fettled correctly). I also have some Clifton planes(all standard bedding) that I like very much. The LN 4 1/2 is just the best all around plane for me.....more expensive...but it really does take the place of a few diffrent planes one could add to their shop(unless your sick like me...then you buy the "others" anyway.... ;) )


DOnnieR

[Bob Marino]

Donnie, Steve,

I guess what I was asking is, since I already have a LN bronze #4, would there be enough of a difference to justify the 4 1/2...other then it's a real nice plane?

Bob

[Dan Clermont in Burnaby]

Donnie, Steve,

I guess what I was asking is, since I already have a LN bronze #4, would there be enough of a difference to justify the 4 1/2...other then it's a real nice plane?

Bob

Hi Bob,

I guess it depends on how much money you have to spend on tools. But I would think if you bought the 50 degree frog for your Bronze #4 you'd get similar results as the 4 1/2.

Dan Clermont in Burnaby, BC

[Steven Wilson]

Donnie, Steve,

I guess what I was asking is, since I already have a LN bronze #4, would there be enough of a difference to justify the 4 1/2...other then it's a real nice plane?

Bob

I didn't know that you had a bronze #4 and were looking to add a 4 1/2. There is a difference between the two planes but not a whole bunch. I had the #4 1/2 and was looking to add another plane with a higher bedding angle. I considered getting the high angle frog for my 4 1/2 but didn't want to have to swap out frogs to change over (a PIA if you're in the middle of planing something) that's why I chose the bronze #4 w/high angle frog. I could have picked up another 4 1/2 with a high angle frog but the bronze #4 w/ha frog was in stock at Woodcraft when they had a little sale on LN planes. I usually end up having a Clifton #3, LN 4 1/2, LN 4 HA, LN scraper planes (all of them), Steve Knight HA woody, LN LA Smoother, and card scrapers out on the bench when the grain starts acting funny.