Which Chinese Laser

[Warren Eames]

Has any one bought a 100W Chinese Laser Cutter? I am looking at the following manufacturers: Jinan Senfeng Technology, XYZ Tech, Guangzhou Yinghe Equipment, Rabbit, Sunnylaser. What success have you had? How long does the Co2 tube last? What is the quality of the engraving and cutting? I would be cutting 20 Acrylic as the biggest cut job. I am not interested in comments from the manufacturers themselves just end users.

[Rodne Gold]

20mm acrylic? Thats pretty much a tough ask from any type of 100w laser. You really have to cut acrylic in a single pass for good results , 80-100w is not ideal. You also have considerations as to beam density and spot size vs depth of "focus" , IE to concentrate the wattage on the spot and thus achieve a very hot spot to promote vaporisation requires short focus lenses which converge and diverge quickly , thus thick materials and even acrylic will tend to cut with sloped sides.
Im not an actual end user , but am sorely tempted and a potential end user
Im pretty sure however that for general cutting jobs which dont require humungous precision , one of the 80w chinese makes would be ideal. I have been quoted 6-800 hrs tube life on a 80w tube with a $295 replacement cost and about a $5k price for a 1200 x 900mm machine. Tube life should under those circumstances be about 6 months.
I apply the 2x 1/2 rule to any purchase of machinery , 1/2 the rated power/life/capability and times the quoted running costs by 2 and if it still makes economic sense , I go for it.
My thinking was that at 6k for a years use , translates to about $30 a working day , and if one can do 3x that in terms of work , IE $100 a day , its probably worthwhile even if one has to dump it at the end of the year. My reservations thus far have been the unsophistication of the machine , its abilitys to survive heavy duty cycle work , support, and my biggest fear that the machine might require far more fiddling and troubleshooting than a conventional machine. I have decided to wait a year or 2 before getting one, as I feel by then the quality etc will have vastly improved , but then again , the price might have shot up hugely.
One has to understand that the only area the chinese are competing in right now is labour and using a cheap tube. The mere fact they can afford to sell at these extremely low price points leads one to think that less than stellar components are also used.
The other reservation is the availability of spares or electronics a few years down the line. I dont think there are free lunches in this field , i use 6 chinese lasers , GCC's , however they are the equivalent of any other mainstream laser and so are their prices.
I think the only thing that would substantially reduce the price of lasers yet still retain utility would be a low cost tube similar to a synrad or a coherent etc.
As an aside , if I was bringing in one of these machines , I would actually take a trip to china and visit the facilities etc , it might be money REAL well spent whether you get one or not. Seems to me there are few mnfgrs but a whole lot of onsellers rebranding.

[Nic Moreau]

, i use 6 chinese lasers , GCC's ,
I have GCC it's made in Taiwan, which is night and day with china.


I would actually take a trip to china and visit the facilities etc
Don;t do that you will get really worried, before I went GCC I got a picture of a Chinese machine I was looking at.
By mistake they send a picture of the machine IN the factory. The factory looked more like a run down sheet metal shop than a factory that makes high precision machinery. That alone was enough to make me switch

Nic

[David Lavaneri]

I am not interested in comments from the manufacturers themselves just end users.

Warren,

That's an amazing statement. It really is!

It not only contributes to the long-standing reputation of online forums being supplier-hostile, (which is often the case) but eliminates commentary from those most familiar with these largely-mysterious lines of equipment.

Bridging the gap, between people importing their own machines, (thereby, rolling the dice) or buying much more expensive equipment, are companies (stateside) who bring the equipment in, test it, (before sending it along to end users) and most importantly, support it.

When buying laser equipment, I doubt you'll find anyone who says after-sale support isn't of paramount importance.

Personally, I'd rather have supplier input before a sale and get a feel for their credibility, rather than open a crate and hope the seller wants to talk to me after the sale.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

[Mike Null]

Warren

I also think you're missing out on a valuable source of information if you exclude manufacturers. We value their participation on this forum for the expertise they can offer.

Why don't you do a search on this forum on Chinese lasers. There's enough there to keep you busy for a while.

[James A. Wolfe]

I have to step to Warren's defense a little bit. Which manufacturer will come to a forum like this one and mention shortcomings or weaknesses with their product? All manufacturers have pretty brochures and most are honest and quite forthright about their product. But sometimes it's good to hear from the guy with grease under his nails when car shopping. Talking to owners of a product I might purchase seems prudent. Added to the manufacturer's information, the info is then weighed along with whatever additional due diligence you feel you need and a decision can be made. Expensive tools like these require a hard look and an unbiased "Return on Investment" analysis.

Putting away soapbox.

Jim

[David Lavaneri]

Which manufacturer will come to a forum like this one and mention shortcomings or weaknesses with their product?

James,

You may be surprised that some would explain the strengths and weaknesses of their own equipment. Not shooting it down, but explaining the differences.

Even if they didn't, there would be no need, because other laser reps would come along and fill in those blanks. That's the beauty of online forums.

A healthy debate would ensue and we'd all come out knowing more than we had previously.

:)

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

[Sandra Force]

We bought both of the lasers before I found the engraving forums. Without the help of an outstanding service group and willingness to help me work through any problems I would have not been up and running for quite some time. Please don't write off the information available from the manufacturer, these people will be over enthusiastic about their machines but they are also the most knowledgable people about them. You will also find that end uses are as biased as they come, some like one brand and hate another even though the next person posting may feel the complete opposite.:rolleyes:

[Warren Eames]

20mm acrylic? Thats pretty much a tough ask from any type of 100w laser. You really have to cut acrylic in a single pass for good results , 80-100w is not ideal. You also have considerations as to beam density and spot size vs depth of "focus" , IE to concentrate the wattage on the spot and thus achieve a very hot spot to promote vaporisation requires short focus lenses which converge and diverge quickly , thus thick materials and even acrylic will tend to cut with sloped sides.
Im not an actual end user , but am sorely tempted and a potential end user
Im pretty sure however that for general cutting jobs which dont require humungous precision , one of the 80w chinese makes would be ideal. I have been quoted 6-800 hrs tube life on a 80w tube with a $295 replacement cost and about a $5k price for a 1200 x 900mm machine. Tube life should under those circumstances be about 6 months.
I apply the 2x 1/2 rule to any purchase of machinery , 1/2 the rated power/life/capability and times the quoted running costs by 2 and if it still makes economic sense , I go for it.
My thinking was that at 6k for a years use , translates to about $30 a working day , and if one can do 3x that in terms of work , IE $100 a day , its probably worthwhile even if one has to dump it at the end of the year. My reservations thus far have been the unsophistication of the machine , its abilitys to survive heavy duty cycle work , support, and my biggest fear that the machine might require far more fiddling and troubleshooting than a conventional machine. I have decided to wait a year or 2 before getting one, as I feel by then the quality etc will have vastly improved , but then again , the price might have shot up hugely.
One has to understand that the only area the chinese are competing in right now is labour and using a cheap tube. The mere fact they can afford to sell at these extremely low price points leads one to think that less than stellar components are also used.
The other reservation is the availability of spares or electronics a few years down the line. I dont think there are free lunches in this field , i use 6 chinese lasers , GCC's , however they are the equivalent of any other mainstream laser and so are their prices.
I think the only thing that would substantially reduce the price of lasers yet still retain utility would be a low cost tube similar to a synrad or a coherent etc.
As an aside , if I was bringing in one of these machines , I would actually take a trip to china and visit the facilities etc , it might be money REAL well spent whether you get one or not. Seems to me there are few mnfgrs but a whole lot of onsellers rebranding.
Rodne,
Thanks for your thoughts and opinion. Some good things to think on.
Warren

[Warren Eames]

James,
Thanks for your support. I must come to the conclusion that you and Rodne are so far the only replies from people not interested in selling.
I have had a lot of emails from the so called manufacturers (I say so called as I have had the EXACT same photos from two different "manufacturers") and I have phoned a couple which was (because of language barriers) not helpful at all.
I have mentioned some manufacturers that I am interested in but I have not had any comments from any one in the forum as to whether any of them are good or bad.
Does anyone that is not selling have any comments on there machine and experience?
Not yet desperate!!!!!!!!
Warren

[Mike Null]

Given that you won't give credibility to anyone who disagrees with you I can't imagine what value you'll find in more posts.

As far as I know all the folks on this forum who are in the business of selling lasers properly identify themselves.

[James A. Wolfe]

Before Warren's thread was hijacked, he asked if anyone on the forum had purchased a laser from one of the manufacturers below. If anyone has purchased one of the aforementioned lasers, he and I would like to hear from them. In deference to anyone who may get their knickers in a twist, I would also like to hear from those (and only those) same manufacturers.



[quote=Warren Eames;798421]Jinan Senfeng Technology, XYZ Tech, Guangzhou Yinghe Equipment, Rabbit, Sunnylaser.


Any debate regarding someone's process for making their decisions should be reserved for an alternate thread.

Jim

[Greg Busch]

Warren,

I recently purchased a LG960 from WKLaser, i've only just unpacked it yesterday and seeing as i head back out to sea tomorrow for a couple of months, will not be able to let you know how its going but for what it's worth here is what i've found so far.

The equipment arrived in two crates, one large one for the engraver, one smaller for the chiller, both were well crated with the only damage being to the mains plug on the chiller which had a pin bent over as it hadnt been tucked inside but was dangling down by the unit.

The laser unit itself was very well packed the crate being approx 100mm bigger across all dimensions which was then filled with packing foam and the machine was wrapped with bubble wrap.
I was actually very surprised when i uncrated it as the build finish was excellent, all the various doors hinged well, main access door on gas struts was very light, one problem is when they mounted the perspex inspection ports, the pex is slightly warped so there is an air gap between the pex and the door which will require sealing.

The drive electronics is housed in a well built enclosure within the machine with cable trunking installed for all interconnections, cabling is well run with service loops.
there is an opening on the underneath for the Data cable which would have been better on the side.
The Igus chain is well routed and secured

The chinese do seem however to get to the Earth cable and just wonder why they have a spare yellow/green cable in their hand? the mains earth was just floating around in the back and i've read this on a few other forums as well.

Mechanically all that i've inspected so far is tight, all paths have been slightly oiled, belts are all correctly tensioned and X/Y axis smooth
a good thing that impressed me is that all holes seem to have been deburred after drilling, a thing that often gets missed some times.
the internals are spotless, no signs of the Tuna sandwich someone earlier posted (i was starving at the time and i would have found it)

I ordered two tubes, these came in seperate boxes, the red dot pointer is mounted on one of these, both tubes are well packed and physically sound, the fact i'll be away for a couple of months means i'll void any warranty i get on the tubes (3 months). so i all i could do was physically inspect them.
The boxes were mounted inside the unit and were well secured.

The Rotary unit, blower, compressor, water pump were all boxed inside underneath the table.

One thing that does bug me is the cooling water inlet/outled bulkhead fittings are mounted right above the power supply!! mind you some of our offshore equipment has A/C units mounted directly above 3.3KV 500KVA transformers so its not just our Chinese friends that do this.

anyway, i know you were probably after more operational experience and i'm sure a few others will chime in with time but so far i'm pleased with what i've recieved and look forward to "crankin it up" also the fact that my one is WKlaser and not one of the ones in your original list, check their website and see if it looks familiar as there is a lot of rebranding going on.

Lastly, James, the fact that these are called threads is fitting, they dont tend to go straight rather they weave their way along.

Cheers,
Buschy

[David Lavaneri]

Any debate regarding someone's process for making their decisions should be reserved for an alternate thread.

Jim,

Why start another thread for prudent advice?

I should point out that I have no affiliation with laser manufacturers, but when people mention language barriers, importing ins-and-out, time zone headaches for tech support issues, etc., my mind goes to the American companies who sell Chinese equipment (glass tubes, etc.) who eliminate those issues altogether.

But they're not on Warren's list.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

[Roy Brewer]

... the American companies who sell Chinese equipment (glass tubes, etc.) who eliminate those issues altogether.David,
I should point out that I do have an affiliation with more than one (US made) laser manufacturers, so take my thoughts for what they are worth.

I believe, however, it is a stretch to say *...eliminate those issues altogether...*.

As a distributor, I am trained to diagnose and service a majority of potential issues. However, it is not unusual that a serious or unusual problem crops up that I simply can't handle and am very happy to pass it to the guys that designed, engineered & manufactured the beast. I'm very, very happy to be able to do that.

I hope my good friend Mike McKenzie (who is far more technical than I) won't mind me dragging him into this, but every once in a while we all read a post from him saying something like "You best check with the factory on that...!"

[Warren Eames]

Warren,

I recently purchased a LG960 from WKLaser, i've only just unpacked it yesterday and seeing as i head back out to sea tomorrow for a couple of months, will not be able to let you know how its going but for what it's worth here is what i've found so far.

The equipment arrived in two crates, one large one for the engraver, one smaller for the chiller, both were well crated with the only damage being to the mains plug on the chiller which had a pin bent over as it hadnt been tucked inside but was dangling down by the unit.

The laser unit itself was very well packed the crate being approx 100mm bigger across all dimensions which was then filled with packing foam and the machine was wrapped with bubble wrap.
I was actually very surprised when i uncrated it as the build finish was excellent, all the various doors hinged well, main access door on gas struts was very light, one problem is when they mounted the perspex inspection ports, the pex is slightly warped so there is an air gap between the pex and the door which will require sealing.

The drive electronics is housed in a well built enclosure within the machine with cable trunking installed for all interconnections, cabling is well run with service loops.
there is an opening on the underneath for the Data cable which would have been better on the side.
The Igus chain is well routed and secured

The chinese do seem however to get to the Earth cable and just wonder why they have a spare yellow/green cable in their hand? the mains earth was just floating around in the back and i've read this on a few other forums as well.

Mechanically all that i've inspected so far is tight, all paths have been slightly oiled, belts are all correctly tensioned and X/Y axis smooth
a good thing that impressed me is that all holes seem to have been deburred after drilling, a thing that often gets missed some times.
the internals are spotless, no signs of the Tuna sandwich someone earlier posted (i was starving at the time and i would have found it)

I ordered two tubes, these came in seperate boxes, the red dot pointer is mounted on one of these, both tubes are well packed and physically sound, the fact i'll be away for a couple of months means i'll void any warranty i get on the tubes (3 months). so i all i could do was physically inspect them.
The boxes were mounted inside the unit and were well secured.

The Rotary unit, blower, compressor, water pump were all boxed inside underneath the table.

One thing that does bug me is the cooling water inlet/outled bulkhead fittings are mounted right above the power supply!! mind you some of our offshore equipment has A/C units mounted directly above 3.3KV 500KVA transformers so its not just our Chinese friends that do this.

anyway, i know you were probably after more operational experience and i'm sure a few others will chime in with time but so far i'm pleased with what i've recieved and look forward to "crankin it up" also the fact that my one is WKlaser and not one of the ones in your original list, check their website and see if it looks familiar as there is a lot of rebranding going on.

Lastly, James, the fact that these are called threads is fitting, they dont tend to go straight rather they weave their way along.

Cheers,
Buschy
Thanks Buschy. Hope you have a safe time at sea.

[David Lavaneri]

I believe, however, it is a stretch to say *...eliminate those issues altogether...*.


Roy,

That's a fair statement.

"Mitigate those issues" would be more accurate, which I think you'd agree is a fair statement.

David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri

[Warren Eames]

We bought both of the lasers before I found the engraving forums. Without the help of an outstanding service group and willingness to help me work through any problems I would have not been up and running for quite some time. Please don't write off the information available from the manufacturer, these people will be over enthusiastic about their machines but they are also the most knowledgable people about them. You will also find that end uses are as biased as they come, some like one brand and hate another even though the next person posting may feel the complete opposite.:rolleyes:
Sandra,
You mentioned you have two Lasers. Could you let me know what the brands are and what is your opinion of them?
Warren

[pat Lanigan]

Warren when i purchased my laser from china i had them include some 19mm acrylic awards. Before next weekend i will test cutting one for you.
My machine is an 80watt. And most chinese sites say capacity for cutting acrylic for 80watt is 20 mm.
But cutting 6mm can be very slow. So i hope you got patience.

Has any one bought a 100W Chinese Laser Cutter? I am looking at the following manufacturers: Jinan Senfeng Technology, XYZ Tech, Guangzhou Yinghe Equipment, Rabbit, Sunnylaser. What success have you had? How long does the Co2 tube last? What is the quality of the engraving and cutting? I would be cutting 20 Acrylic as the biggest cut job. I am not interested in comments from the manufacturers themselves just end users.

[Warren Eames]

Warren when i purchased my laser from china i had them include some 19mm acrylic awards. Before next weekend i will test cutting one for you.
My machine is an 80watt. And most chinese sites say capacity for cutting acrylic for 80watt is 20 mm.
But cutting 6mm can be very slow. So i hope you got patience.
Pat I look forward to your results. I am thinking I may have to go to a 120w machine.

[Darren Null]

the perspex inspection ports, the pex is slightly warped so there is an air gap between the pex and the door which will require sealing.
NOTE: An unlucky reflection could lead to instant blindness if the laser is open to air at any point...particularly if it's around the bit you're looking through. Please bear that in mind when you're doing the sealing.

[pat Lanigan]

Hi warren, i today cut 20mm through. I cut 5mm square in 72 seconds.!! As you know i have a 80 watt chinese laser. The cut piece is not straight. I will post you pic. There is a bow in the cut out length. Maybe more power is the answer.

[Warren Eames]

Pat at that rate the largest piece I would be cutting out would take about 1.5hrs it is 600mm long.
Has anyone else cut 20mm Acrylic with more than 80w power? If so could you please give me some time frame for a cut such as Pat has done?
I would like to get the right power on my first buy.

[Mladen Pavic]

I am interested to purchase chinese laser

i would like to hear your opinion about this company

http://www.perfectlaser.net/

and their laser model :PEDK-7040

Thanks

[Dan Hintz]

Mladen,

That one is no different than any of the other Chinese lasers... they all steal from each other and use one of 2-3 different packages (all equally quirky).

[James Jaragosky]

Dan, what you call stealing they call sharing. All their high tech business is government subsidized so in essence all their business is interconnected. They take an” all of us against them” business approach, where we are all about the individual.

As far as their product quality is concerned, I can find more posts on this site of people asking for help with their American assembled machines than Chinese machines.
As someone who has owned and operated both the low end and higher end Chinese machines I speak from experience when I say that they can get the job done, And at 1/5 the cost of an American assembled machine I’ll put up with a little quirky

To answer the last posters question I have no experience with that company. I suggest you continue to do your research. Try not to take everything you hear bad about Chinese machines as fact. Most people commenting on the Chinese machines have never owned one let alone even seen one in person.
There is a lot of quality difference between the Chinese lower end machines and their industrial models.
In my opinion, the biggest problem with the Chinese machines is the software.
Good luck and best regards
Jim J.

[Mladen Pavic]

thank you James for your opinion.

I work on ULS machine but I am intrested in chines laser
I have opportunity to see chinese laser on the work and they are very good in cuting and engraving on the wood but i did not see how they work with details engraving on the plastic and rubber.

I think between two company one is
http://www.xyz-tech.com/
and their model EXLAS-6090

and second company is

http://www.perfectlaser.net/

and their laser model : PEDK-7040

I am specially intrested for perfect laser model because they have possibility for American Co2 RF laser tube .but about perfectlaser i can not find anything on the net.
Sorry on my English

[James Jaragosky]

thank you James for your opinion.

I work on ULS machine but I am intrested in chines laser
I have opportunity to see chinese laser on the work and they are very good in cuting and engraving on the wood but i did not see how they work with details engraving on the plastic and rubber.

I think between two company one is
http://www.xyz-tech.com/
and their model EXLAS-6090

and second company is

http://www.perfectlaser.net/

and their laser model : PEDK-7040

I am specially intrested for perfect laser model because they have possibility for American Co2 RF laser tube .but about perfectlaser i can not find anything on the net.
Sorry on my English

Your English is well enough for me to understand you. no apology is nessary.

You can get a rf laser tube in a rabbit laser as well.

I cut acrylic with mine without any problems. I have not tried rubber as of yet.
Your USL machine is a excellent machine. the Chinese machines are not as well refined as the American machines. However the chinese machines do very well for many people.
Regards
Jim J.

[Scott Shepherd]

I can find more posts on this site of people asking for help with their American assembled machines than Chinese machines.

That's probably a lot more to do with volume of machine owners rather than quality of machine. You'd also find that 95% of those problems are solved the very next day. A point you don't see posted about the Chinese machines at all.

[James Jaragosky]

That's probably a lot more to do with volume of machine owners rather than quality of machine. You'd also find that 95% of those problems are solved the very next day. A point you don't see posted about the Chinese machines at all.

The point I was really trying to make is that many people bash Chinese machines without having any firsthand experience as an owner or an operator. They simple spread opinions that reinforce their view on something they have no firsthand experience with.
Also the put downs of the Chinese machines have no relevance to the posters question.

Like when a pc owner asks for help with a issue affecting his laser, and the first post is from a Mac user telling him” I don’t have that problem you should have bought a Mac”. This type of thing helps no one. It only servers to help the person doing the put down reinforce how well he feels about his equipment.

Are the American machines better built & supported? absolutely!
But that was not the question.

I just got a new 60-watt Chinese machine and I am quite happy with it. I had an issue with a bad flow sensor that was easily bypassed. I have been happily using the machine for over a week now without any mechanical problems. The software is new to me and I hate it. This will change, as I get better at using it.

For many people putting out 10 to 20 thousand dollars for an American machine is not a viable option.
If I had a business that depended on a functioning laser, I would either get a American machine or two Chinese machines. Two Chinese machines would be cheaper.

I have seen people who posted on the creek told not to bash a certain brand or company because it is not right, but is it ok to bash a whole series of products from a whole country made by many different manufactures?

I say, if you have firsthand experience with a product then speak up and let us know good or bad. If all you have is secondhand conjecture and opinion with no experience with that product then you should at least state that in your post so we can know from where you are basing your opinion.
Best Regards
Jim J.

[Niklas Bjornestal]

Can you manage a downtime of a couple of weeks if anything brake down?

[James Jaragosky]

Can you manage a downtime of a couple of weeks if anything brake down?
You do know that the most common parts are now available state side.

[Rodne Gold]

James , a Q?
What was the total cost of your laser - Im thinking to get a few larger format ones to do cutting duty only.
Say 1200 x 900 with 120w tubes?
Is the engraving on yours good quality?
I'm pretty sure that these lower cost lasers will evolve over time and experience of the builders into units that are closer and closer to mainstream units at many x the price, I already have ex customers who have bought themselves these machines and they seem to be as capable , if not more , than me.
My concern is that we use our lasers quite hard and that parts failure might be an issue with serious industrial use..
I would probably buy 2 machines at the very minimum.
I don't have to be jingoistic or patriotic as to mainstream USA made machines ...Im in south africa and in fact my 6 Gcc's are tiawanese anyway.

[carl stevenson]

The thing i like about the chinese lasers is the fact that they are built in a "modular" way. The individual components are readily available on ebay, cheap and are mostly interchangeable between the machines.

With a bit of technical knowledge they are relatively easy to repair. Especially with a bit of help from the forums.

The software gets criticised but it is fine for what it is. It was designed for making stamps and simple engravings so I dont expect anything else from it. It can import DXF files, and so far every dxf has imported flawlessly, once the right scale settings have been made in inkscape and illustrator.

They are cheap and do the job, and without them a lot of people wouldn't be able to afford a laser machine anyway. Me included.

So, I for one am glad to support the chinese laser manufacturers :)

[Scott Shepherd]

The point I was really trying to make is that many people bash Chinese machines without having any firsthand experience as an owner or an operator. They simple spread opinions that reinforce their view on something they have no firsthand experience with.
Also the put downs of the Chinese machines have no relevance to the posters question.

Like when a pc owner asks for help with a issue affecting his laser, and the first post is from a Mac user telling him” I don’t have that problem you should have bought a Mac”. This type of thing helps no one. It only servers to help the person doing the put down reinforce how well he feels about his equipment.

Are the American machines better built & supported? absolutely!
But that was not the question.

I just got a new 60-watt Chinese machine and I am quite happy with it. I had an issue with a bad flow sensor that was easily bypassed. I have been happily using the machine for over a week now without any mechanical problems. The software is new to me and I hate it. This will change, as I get better at using it.

For many people putting out 10 to 20 thousand dollars for an American machine is not a viable option.
If I had a business that depended on a functioning laser, I would either get a American machine or two Chinese machines. Two Chinese machines would be cheaper.

I have seen people who posted on the creek told not to bash a certain brand or company because it is not right, but is it ok to bash a whole series of products from a whole country made by many different manufactures?

I say, if you have firsthand experience with a product then speak up and let us know good or bad. If all you have is secondhand conjecture and opinion with no experience with that product then you should at least state that in your post so we can know from where you are basing your opinion.
Best Regards
Jim J.

Jim, I have no reason to enter into a quality debate about Chinese made machines. I really don't care what you or anyone else buys. My post didn't say anything about quality. It was a response to your over generalization that there were more problems with US made machines on this forum. To me, if that's not labeling and branding an entire class of machines (kind of what you're asking many to not do about your machine), then I don't know what is. Criticizing US machines that you don't own or have never owned (kinda like what you're not happy about in your post)?

I simply pointed out the fact that the issue you brought up was due to the number of people with machines, not the quality.

[James Jaragosky]

Jim, I have no reason to enter into a quality debate about Chinese made machines. I really don't care what you or anyone else buys. My post didn't say anything about quality. It was a response to your over generalization that there were more problems with US made machines on this forum. To me, if that's not labeling and branding an entire class of machines (kind of what you're asking many to not do about your machine), then I don't know what is. Criticizing US machines that you don't own or have never owned (kinda like what you're not happy about in your post)?

I simply pointed out the fact that the issue you brought up was due to the number of people with machines, not the quality.

“Jim, I have no reason to enter into a quality debate about Chinese made machines.”
The quality of the American machines is a cut above the Chinese machines, as is the after sale service.I conceded this without hesitation.

“It was a response to your over generalization”.
I do not feel that I generalized. Just the number of clean your encoder strip posts would dwarf the number of calls for help on the Chinese machines. I am not saying that the Chinese machines do not fail less often than the American machines, But if all I had was this forums data base to do my research with I might get that impression. It may be true that more American machine owners that post, and that skews the data to look this way.

“Criticizing US machines that you don't own or have never owned”
I do get to run two Epilogs on the weekends and they are fine machines.
Although I am only making name-tags for 8 hours. I do have experience with this brand.

In addition, I do not feel that anything that I have said has bashed the American machines other than in the pricing area.
I apologize if that is the perception that you got from my post.
Regards
Jim J

[James Jaragosky]

James , a Q?
What was the total cost of your laser - Im thinking to get a few larger format ones to do cutting duty only.
Say 1200 x 900 with 120w tubes?
Is the engraving on yours good quality?
I'm pretty sure that these lower cost lasers will evolve over time and experience of the builders into units that are closer and closer to mainstream units at many x the price, I already have ex customers who have bought themselves these machines and they seem to be as capable , if not more , than me.
My concern is that we use our lasers quite hard and that parts failure might be an issue with serious industrial use..
I would probably buy 2 machines at the very minimum.
I don't have to be jingoistic or patriotic as to mainstream USA made machines ...Im in south africa and in fact my 6 Gcc's are tiawanese anyway.

Rodne, it would not be fair to post an exact price of my 60watt but I will say that I paid less than 5500. delivered with all taxes and other fees paid in full. That price includes a air compressor, water chiller, two additional lenses, rotary attachment(which I have yet to even unpack),power converter and one dark anodized cutting bed. the bed is reversible slats on one side and flat on the other.

I would think that the machine that you described would be less than 10 thousand delivered here in the USA.

The larger machines are well built; in fact, I feel that are over built. my 60 watt weights in at 783 LBS. not that weight equals quality. You could use this machine in a production setting.

Your point about the Taiwanese machines is a good one. Many of the best CNC machine parts are manufactured in Taiwan.

Steppers and servos from Taiwan, shafts and bearings from Scandinavia and Germany, electronics from Japan. How much of anything we use is really made at home?

Regards
Jim J.

[Dan Hintz]

Rodney,

James' $5-$6k delivered cost is about what I've seen for most of the larger bed machines in the 45-60W area. In the 100W+ area, the cost raises some to $8-$10k, but I imagine you would do better in cost if you ordered a 60W machine and purchased the larger tube and beefier power supply separately (and expect a relatively minor amount of metal work to hold the larger tube).