Jointers - DJ-20 vs. PowermaticParrallelogram

[Matt Ocel]

I have a small woodworking shop and I find it hard to get a good glue line rip with my TS. Got a good TS and use the best Freud blades, It works well on softer stock but leaves saw marks on hickory, maple, walnut, etc. I want to invest in a 8" Jointer and have it narrowed to Delta DJ-20 or Powermatic PJ882. Any recomendations would be greatly appreciated!

[Lewis Cobb]

I have a small woodworking shop and I find it hard to get a good glue line rip with my TS. Got a good TS and use the best Freud blades, It works well on softer stock but leaves saw marks on hickory, maple, walnut, etc. I want to invest in a 8" Jointer and have it narrowed to Delta DJ-20 or Powermatic PJ882. Any recomendations would be greatly appreciated!

Matt - I'll be watching this thread closely. I am agonizing over the PJ882 myself at the moment. I have looked at both and actually have a DJ20 on loan from a buddy in my workshop at the moment. I can say the following -
- the beds are longer on the PJ882 - 82" versus 76" on the DJ20
- the PJ882 is much heavier - hundreds of pounds if I remember correctly
- The jointer itself is physically bigger and more "substantial" looking.
- I have seen many good reviews of the DJ-20 but the PJ882 seems to have far less - perhaps due to it's price on the higher end of the scale.
- The few reviews of PJ882 on amazon seem to bring up a non flatness issues with the tables and beds, but they are only 1 or 2 reviews so can't base decisions on that.

Will watch this thread with interest.

Cheers,
Lewis

[Matt Ocel]

The reviews on the flaws in the bed do scare me a little. I believe I read that they were grinding the castings before they were properly cured. This is the one issue (although a huge issue) that makes me consider the DJ-20. I recently purchased the PM2000 T.S. and absolutely love it and would like to keep flying the yellow and black in my workshop.

[Julian Wong]

I have a small woodworking shop and I find it hard to get a good glue line rip with my TS. Got a good TS and use the best Freud blades, It works well on softer stock but leaves saw marks on hickory, maple, walnut, etc. I want to invest in a 8" Jointer and have it narrowed to Delta DJ-20 or Powermatic PJ882. Any recomendations would be greatly appreciated!

Matt, Look at the Grizzly G0490 too. It looks exactly like the DJ-20 and I think someone somewhere mentioned that it rolls off the same assembly line. Cost a lot less though if you're liooking for a good machine at a reasonable price.

[John Hain]

Matt, Look at the Grizzly G0490 too. It looks exactly like the DJ-20 and I think someone somewhere mentioned that it rolls off the same assembly line. Cost a lot less though if you're liooking for a good machine at a reasonable price.

......and dare I say.......above average customer service? I'm dodging lightening now.

[Lewis Cobb]

The reviews on the flaws in the bed do scare me a little. I believe I read that they were grinding the castings before they were properly cured. This is the one issue (although a huge issue) that makes me consider the DJ-20. I recently purchased the PM2000 T.S. and absolutely love it and would like to keep flying the yellow and black in my workshop.

I know what you mean. I am ready to buy a jointer, planer, cabinet saw and bandsaw all in one shot when I finally make my mind up. The PM stuff was high on the list - and still is for that matter. I was all set to buy the PM2000, the PJ882 jointer, the 15HH planer and their 14" bandsaw. After considering the bandsaw some more I realize that the 14" is a little small for my needs and that rules out the PM as their next one up is a monster (monster price too I suppose). So, I went off looking at the Grizzly line-up and to be honest the bandsaws they have seem to have a heck of a lot to offer for the price, not to mention a long list of happy customers on the forum here. That led me off to their jointers and planers and so the merry-go-round began. Sad when you have the money sitting in the bank and can't make your mind up for fear of making a decision you will regret later. I'd like to think that these purchases will last me forever so I want to make the right choice.

The 5 year warranty is a big plus for PM, but to be honest I think that if nothing fetches up or goes off the rails within the first year, there's little chance it will in the remaining 4, unless castings start to warp. I did read a thread where one fellow had a bed warp on a Grizzly jointer 6 months out of warranty and they replaced the unit. Their customer service is top notch from what I have been reading.

Please post any addtional findings that you may come across on this thread so other tormented souls like me can take it into consideration.

At the moment I am starting to have thoughts about the G0455 jointer from Grizzly - a 10" beast that weighs oh, about half a ton - :D. I'm going to toss up a thread on here to see if any others have the unit and what they think of it as it, like the PJ882 seems to be thinly discussed here.

Cheers,
Lewis

[Rich Schneider]

I have a DJ-20 which I bought about 7 years ago. It has been a great machine overall and I think the new ones are still the same for the most part. I haven't had a chance to closely at the new Powermatic to compare and give useful feedback, but it certainly looks impressive.

[Peter Quinn]

I have a 12yr old DJ-20 and it continues to be a fine machine. At over 500# it is not as heavy as the PM, but it is hardly what I'd call light weight. I regular flatten boards using the full width of the table and it barely seems to notice. Easy to set up, plenty of power, good fence design. I have never felt restricted by the bed length.

If you can afford either its a hard choice to make, but I doubt you would be sorry either way.

[Don Loretto]

I have had my DJ 20 some 9 years now. Adjusted the beds once and it doesn't vibration on any stock or cut depth. I put a Byrd Shelix, I think it's spelled, cutter head on it about a year ago. Tear out is a faint memory, grain direction rarely matters, and it is much quieter. I am very happy with the DJ 20. I wish I had a 12 inch jointer though.....

[Ron Bontz]

I agonized over the 8" series jointers for about 2 months, looking at PM, grizzly, delta x5 and so forth. I finially settled on a reconditioned delta x5. They don't call it an X5 because it does not have the 5 year warranty. It is the exact same jointer as the 350A model according to Delta. The jointer itself is made in Tiawan and the base is made in China. After I brought mine home from the trucking terminal I was pleasantly surprised. I did not have to make any adjustments to the tables after it was set up. I must confess I was not pleased with delta for a while after they were bought out, but they seem to be doing a lot better. The Reconditioned DJ20s can be bought for around 800-900 dollars plus about 100 dollars shipping. The money saved can be spent on a nice shelix head or something else.

[Pat Germain]

I'm no expert, but I have a Shop Fox 8" jointer which I think is the same machine as the Grizzly G0490. I'm very happy with it. It was straight as a string right out of the crate.

The DJ20 is a great machine, but it was just out of my price range. My jointer is pretty much a DJ20 clone. The only difference I'm aware of is the paint and mine has a bigger motore.

[Dan Schmidt]

I bought a DJ20 2 years ago -- this is an awesome machine. Flawless since day one, and extremely well made.

[David Giles]

In a moment of financial weakness, I bought the PJ882 several years ago. I like high end machines that don't need tinkering. The Powermatic has met and exceeded that expectation. I've set the knives several times with a dial indicator and have never moved the outfeed table. I assume that it is possible to do so. Tables are flat as far as I can tell. Cuts are smooth and snipe free on both ends.

It's a heavy beast. Setting it on waxed hardboard allows it to slide with some effort and protects the base from moisture in the concrete.

The infeed table moves effortlessly, but I rarely change it from a 1/32" setting. The fence is flat and square to the table.

What don't I like? The longer tables really aren't needed for 99% of my work. A 10-12" wide bed would be useful occasionally. And I paid a price to get a machine that didn't need constant tinkering.

All told, it's doubtful that I'll ever upgrade this machine.

[Lewis Cobb]

In a moment of financial weakness, I bought the PJ882 several years ago. I like high end machines that don't need tinkering. The Powermatic has met and exceeded that expectation. I've set the knives several times with a dial indicator and have never moved the outfeed table. I assume that it is possible to do so. Tables are flat as far as I can tell. Cuts are smooth and snipe free on both ends.

It's a heavy beast. Setting it on waxed hardboard allows it to slide with some effort and protects the base from moisture in the concrete.

The infeed table moves effortlessly, but I rarely change it from a 1/32" setting. The fence is flat and square to the table.

What don't I like? The longer tables really aren't needed for 99% of my work. A 10-12" wide bed would be useful occasionally. And I paid a price to get a machine that didn't need constant tinkering.

All told, it's doubtful that I'll ever upgrade this machine.


Thanks for your input David. The moment of financial weakness has arrived for me as well. Like Matt, I would like to fly the gold and black colors in my shop, and the tiny number of reviews on Amazon had me spooked a bit but I do realize that often it's the cranky people that post reviews more than the happy people that are out in the workshop making stuff with their new acquistion :).

Have you, or anyone on here ever installed a Byrd head in a PJ882? It looks to me like the bolts are upside down and you have to slide a wrench in though a little slot in the front of the machine.....what's up with that? Maybe I am seeing things wrong but looking at the exploded view in the manual sure looks this way.....

[glenn bradley]

I recently purchased the PM2000 T.S. and absolutely love it and would like to keep flying the yellow and black in my workshop.

On a purchase of this size, color coordination would be pretty low on my list ;). If you are going to stray from the mustard theme, I would check a Grizzly or ask some of the owners here. The Delta just seems over priced to me for a machine that has been in production and relatively unchanged for so long. It is a proven design though and that cannot be short changed.

[Lewis Cobb]

On a purchase of this size, color coordination would be pretty low on my list ;). If you are going to stray from the mustard theme, I would check a Grizzly or ask some of the owners here. The Delta just seems over priced to me for a machine that has been in production and relatively unchanged for so long. It is a proven design though and that cannot be short changed.


I've actually heard some rumours around here about fellows that tore down and painted the "odd tools out" in their shop to get a nice consistent view when entering the room :eek:. If it's a hobby, anything is valid I guess and the pleasure you get from whatever you put your time into is the main thing.

Also, on all large hobby purchases I always point out to my wife that "you can't put a price on happiness"......

[CPeter James]

I have an older DJ20 ( made in Taiwan). The new ones are made in China. a friend has the PM882 and I helped him set it up. If I was going to do it again. I would be looking at the Grizzly G0609 12" machine. It is $1695. You can get a Shelix head for it for another $795 if you want to go that route.

If you want to stay with an 8" jointer the G0490X with the spiral cutter head is $1095. The new Delta is overpriced for what it is. The fence is no better than OK. The PM is better, but is it worth that much more?

Do you want matching colors for snob reasons or do you want machines that are ready to work? I have the 8" and wish many times it was wider.

The best of the high end furniture makers that i know, build their multi thousand dollar pieces using a collection of this and that, most of which is over 50 years old. I like nice tools as well as the t next guy, but there is a blend of colors in my shop and the vintages range from last year to 40+ years old.

CPeter

[John Bush]

Hi Matt,
I had a PM60B for several years and had good luck with it. It was stable, lots of power, long beds and gave good consistent results. I have a large stash of old, rough lumber mostly wider than 8"s that I am ready to mill so I wanted to move up to a wider jointer. I was able to sell the PM for a great price and I bought the Griz 609X, their 12"er with spiral cutterhead. I looked at all their machines at the showroom and they all looked like great values. I think all the manufacturers offer good stuff at this level so pricepoint may be a logical deciding factor for you. With patience you can likely find a good used machine out there as lots of folks seem to be trading up to the spiral heads on bigger machines. The 0609X has parallelogram table adj.and the PM had the old style ways. I usually keep the cuts at 1/16 to 1/32 and occasionally @1/8 so table adj. isn't a big deal for me and shouldn't be a deal breaker for you. I do really like the spiral cutterhead and would recommend buying a machine with it factory installed. I would rather be milling stock than futzing with installation and adjusting a cutterhead.

The non-long winded version: 1) spiral cutterhead
2) non-parallelogram adj.
3) best price/value--Griz, Jet, Shopfox, etc
4) start making sawdust

[Lewis Cobb]

Hi Matt,
I had a PM60B for several years and had good luck with it. It was stable, lots of power, long beds and gave good consistent results. I have a large stash of old, rough lumber mostly wider than 8"s that I am ready to mill so I wanted to move up to a wider jointer. I was able to sell the PM for a great price and I bought the Griz 609X, their 12"er with spiral cutterhead. I looked at all their machines at the showroom and they all looked like great values. I think all the manufacturers offer good stuff at this level so pricepoint may be a logical deciding factor for you. With patience you can likely find a good used machine out there as lots of folks seem to be trading up to the spiral heads on bigger machines. The 0609X has parallelogram table adj.and the PM had the old style ways. I usually keep the cuts at 1/16 to 1/32 and occasionally @1/8 so table adj. isn't a big deal for me and shouldn't be a deal breaker for you. I do really like the spiral cutterhead and would recommend buying a machine with it factory installed. I would rather be milling stock than futzing with installation and adjusting a cutterhead.

The non-long winded version: 1) spiral cutterhead
2) non-parallelogram adj.
3) best price/value--Griz, Jet, Shopfox, etc
4) start making sawdust

John - Not to hijack this thread but did you see the 10" Oliver lookalike that Grizzly has when you were in the showroom? I see it in the catalog and it's more money than the 12" unit you have but for the life of me I cannot understand why. It's been bugging me that there is this "less is more" situation going on here ....

[D-Alan Grogg]

I ended up getting the DJ-20 X5 (X5 means 5 year warranty) about 2-3 years ago. I had ordered the PM 882, but it was taking forever (more than 6 months) to get from the factory to me. So, I can only speak for the DJ-20. It is not a light weight machine. It will handle anything that you would be running through an 8" jointer. I like it and it is a quality machine. I suppose the longer beds of the PM would be helpful in some cases. I also like the fit and finish of my other PM tools (PM 2000 and PM 15S planer).

[John Bush]

Hi Lewis,
I don't recall the specifics of the 10" jointer or what features warrant the cost difference. It's a bit overwhelming to have all the jointers lined up together and try to compare them without confusion. I made my decision basd on which machine I left the most drool on. All of them looked like good values and it was much easier to choose when I blotted out the other models.

[Lewis Cobb]

Hi Lewis,
I don't recall the specifics of the 10" jointer or what features warrant the cost difference. It's a bit overwhelming to have all the jointers lined up together and try to compare them without confusion. I made my decision basd on which machine I left the most drool on. All of them looked like good values and it was much easier to choose when I blotted out the other models.

Probably the same emotional reaction that I will experience when I visit the Muncy showroom for the first time later this year :D

[Matt Ocel]

Next time my wife isn't lookin, It'll be the PM PJ887 with the spirals!!!!

[Greg Pavlov]

I've actually heard some rumours around here about fellows that tore down and painted the "odd tools out" in their shop to get a nice consistent view when entering the room :eek:.......
I wonder if they put up matching curtains too... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Lewis Cobb]

Next time my wife isn't lookin, It'll be the PM PJ887 with the spirals!!!!


Matt - in case you did not realize this - the PJ882 with the helical head does not use the same mfg of helical head as used in their planer. The planers use a Byrd head but the jointer, for some unknown reason, uses an import head. I would have thought they would stick with one or the other as people that would want to have both the planer and the jointer most likely don't want to have 2 different spares of inserts floating around....I don't think they are interchangable. Someone may corrent me on that.....

Food for thought.

Lewis

[Michael Pfau]

Matt, I have the DJ 20, and would own nothing else. Most 8 inch jointers out there that are worth anything, are a spin off of the DJ. It has never dissapointed me, and I have run hundreds of feet of lumber over it. You will only have to buy one of them...its worth it.

[Jake Helmboldt]

I have the ShoFox 1741 which is the retail sister to the Grizzly 0490, which in turn is a copy of the DJ20. But they are half the price of the Delta and as was mentioned previously, supposedly come out of the same factory.

For the price of the PM you could have a 10" or 12" which, while rarely needed by me would be a nice feature.

[Jim Andrew]

I have the go609, with the byrd head, works perfect. My only problem is the guard spring gave up. Called Grizzly yesterday, new spring in the mail.
Actually, they said UPS. Suppose I'll get a box full of peanuts, and a tiny spring.