More tools

[Garth Keel]

A friend says I need a set of mortising chisels. I have always used bench chisels to cut mortises. Is there a real advantage. If so, I can justify more tools! :D

[Pedro Reyes]

Sounds like you don't need them you want them, but sometimes that wins ;), unfortunately.

I will say this, if you do "need", I don't think you need a set. Find out what would be the size you use most (probably 1/4" or 3/8") and get one. They do take a harder beating, specially pig stickers, and they can pry chips better. The thicker sides also help keep it straight, and it is nice to have a dedicated tool. All in all you sharpen less often this way. But again, the job can be done with bench chisels.

Just my thoughts.

/p

[David DeCristoforo]

Sure there's an advantage. Morticing (sometimes called "firmer" chisels) are designed to have the tar beaten out of them with a big mallet. The kind of thing that would soon destroy the handle of a "standard bench chisel". So listen to your friend...

YM

(I hope that is enough justification....)

[James Mittlefehldt]

If you need more justification my Marples blue chip chisels ended up with the handles at 80 degrees or so to the blade, if your doing deep mortising and in harder woods then eventually you will probably ruin your bench chisels.

As posted before though just buy one as you need it, if working 3/4 stuff, then 1/4 inch will do to start, and don't forget you don't need shiny 0 degrees flat backs for this application, reasonably sharp should do it.

[Garth Keel]

Thanks for the info. Maybe I do want, instead of need. I think I will satisfy both sides by getting only the sizes I need. I just knew more chisels was the right answer. :rolleyes:

[Alex Shanku]

Sure there's an advantage. Morticing (sometimes called "firmer" chisels) are designed to have the tar beaten out of them with a big mallet. The kind of thing that would soon destroy the handle of a "standard bench chisel". So listen to your friend...

YM

(I hope that is enough justification....)

Although you are right that firmer chisels are often more stout than bench chisels, and can be used for chopping, they are not the same as morticing chisels.

[David DeCristoforo]

"firmer chisels...are not the same as morticing chisels."

Point.

YM

[Andy Haney]

"firmer chisels...are not the same as morticing chisels."

Point.

YM

For my benefit please, what is the difference? I'm beginning a collection of hand tools because I have "seen the light" with respect to using them to clean up after machines.

Not intended as a hijack, I thought it along the lines of the original post.

Andy

[David DeCristoforo]

Actually a "true" mortice chisel has a very massive "blade" and a "socketed" handle like these:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=298

A "firmer" chisel has a blade that is somewhere in between that
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=243

and what would be called a "bench" chisel
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=295

"Firmer" chisels may have either a socketed or a tanged handle. The term is used rather loosely.....

YM

[Billy Chambless]

Thanks for the info. Maybe I do want, instead of need. I think I will satisfy both sides by getting only the sizes I need.

That's exactly what I'm doing -- augmenting my basic set of bench chisels with mortise chisels, etc. in specific sizes I need. Some people might prefer the neatness of "sets", but I like the idea of a variety of styles.

[Pedro Reyes]

Actually a "true" mortice chisel has a very massive "blade" and a "socketed" handle like these:

Socketed handle is not a requirement and in my opinion the best mortice chisels are the "pigsticker" type which are not socketed.

/p

[Dave Anderson NH]

True mortising chisels have a blade depth equal to or greater than their width. This varies from a square shape such as the Lie-Nielsen and I believe the Hirsch, to a rectangular shape such as the English style "pigsticker" chisels which are more properly refered to as oval bolstered mortising chisels. Mortising chisels tend to have less acute angles on the bevel grind, typically 30 to 35 degrees so that there is more meat behind the cutting edge to make it stand up better to the shock of pounding out a mortise. Most bench chisels and Firmers tend to have the bevel ground at 25 degrees and are far more subject to having their cutting edges dull and chip, even if a small and steeper micro bevel is used.

Mortising chisels have several advantages over Firmer and bench chisels for chopping a mortise. First and foremost is that the square or rectangular cross section helps keep the chisel sides square to the walls of the mortise, and after the first pass, the walls of the mortise help keep the chisel registered. This important attribute produces a clean and straight walled mortise with far less fussing and attention to chisel orientation. The added depth of the blade also helps when levering out the waste. For deep mortises in heavy timber, a millwrights chisel which is a sub-type of mortising chisel is most often used because of its longer length. While most mortising chisels are about 10" to 12" long, it is not unusual to see a millwrights chisel in the 15" to 18" range and even longer ones existed for specialist uses. While I have described the cross section of mortising chisels a either square or rectangular in depth, the best ones were slightly relieved at forging and were actually a very slight parallelogram.

[Jim Dunn]

A friend says I need a set of mortising chisels. :D

What a great friend you have. Does he have a sister?:p:p

I'd get all I can while the getting is good. After all you can always blame you friend if your wife gets the least bit mad;)

[Mike Henderson]

To save money, you can easily use your regular bench chisels to cut mortises if you drill the majority of the waste first. Certainly if you want a set of mortise chisels go ahead and buy them. But if you only rarely cut mortises the drill first technique works very well.

I have a set of pigsticker mortise chisels but I mostly drill first and trim with my regular (LN) chisels.

Mike

[I'll also add a comment regarding something Dave Anderson posted. I sharpen my pigstickers to a 25* angle and then put a secondary bevel of 35* on them. The reason for the 25* primary bevel is to allow greater penetration with a blow. If you put a 35* primary bevel, the chisel will not penetrate as far on each blow.]

[David DeCristoforo]

Hey come on Mike... we're trying to talk this guy into buying some more tools.... We almost got him and here you go all rational on us!
;)
YM

[Mike Henderson]

Hey come on Mike... we're trying to talk this guy into buying some more tools.... We almost got him and here you go all rational on us!
;)
YM
Okay, let me try.

If you want to try a mortise chisel (a pigsticker) search on eBay for a 3/8" (a common mortise size) and buy one. The old pigstickers, especially the ones with a cast steel edge, are quite good and will hold an edge. If you find that you like using a mortise chisel, you can buy more on eBay or buy some of the Ray Iles pigstickers.

They're fun to use, and fast once you gain confidence. But I mostly drill out my mortises.

Mike

[Randal Stevenson]

A friend says I need a set of mortising chisels. I have always used bench chisels to cut mortises. Is there a real advantage. If so, I can justify more tools! :D



(Insert shaking head from side to side, smiley here).

Your friend said you need a set of mortising chisels and you failed to say, "thank you for offering to buy me some"?

:D

He buys you some, you have spare tool money, and no angry spouse!

[Mike Cutler]

Garth

You must have a really nice set of bench chisels if they've been pulling duty as a mortise chisel on their own. I'd be afraid of curling an edge with mine.

Why do you need a set of mortise chisels?
Simple. They are the most correct tool for the job.
Save your bench chisel for the finer work they were meant for.

[Chris Thompson]

A friend says I need a set of mortising chisels. I have always used bench chisels to cut mortises. Is there a real advantage. If so, I can justify more tools! :D

Wait, when did we start buying tools based on "need"? Did I miss a memo?

[Phillip Pattee]

If you are going to hand chop your mortises, you will need one mortise chisel sized for the job. I have two W. Butcher "English style "pigsticker" chisels which are more properly refered to as oval bolstered mortising chisels" sized 1/4" and 3/8". It is just plain fun to whack away with a mallet on these.

Now, if you are going to hand chop the mortise, you should logically hand cut your tenons too.:rolleyes: So you will need a couple of good back saws. Probably a crosscut saw in the 12 to 14" range and a rip saw at 12" should do to start.;) Some say you can use paring chisels to smooth out your tenon, you will probably need one the same size as your new mortise chisel to really clean up the sides of the mortise anyway. Ask others here if you can smooth out your tenon with a paring chisel or whether you will need a shoulder plane. :)

You probabaly think I'm kidding, but if you are going to do this by hand, these are bona fide needs. See how many friends you have here?:D

[Billy Chambless]

If you are going to hand chop your mortises, you will need one mortise chisel sized for the job. I
.... you will need a couple of good back saws. Probably a crosscut saw in the 12 to 14" range and a rip saw at 12" should do to s;)tart. Some say you can use paring chisels to smooth out your tenon, you will probably need one the same size as your new mortise chisel to really clean up the sides of the mortise anyway. Ask others here if you can smooth out your tenon with a paring chisel or whether you will need a shoulder plane. :)


And if you need a rationalization for buying all those tools, check prices on mortising machines. The price of one of them will buy a lot of chisels!