Im mad... really mad, any input?

[Rick Gifford]

I orderd a Jet XACTA Deluxe 10" tablesaw, with the new riving knife setup at the first of February at my local Woodcraft.

It will be a few weeks before delivery I knew when I ordered it. Now just over a month later I stopped in (I am always in there though...) and asked what the status was.

The manager made a contact, and came back and said I am not going to be happy with her.

Not a good sign when they start off saying that.

My saw will not ship until May 29th, 2008

I went brain dead for a moment trying to comprehend that. The full months of Feb, Mar, April and May?

Four months to ship a saw? I know its backordered, but 4 months??

This means I wont receive my new tablesaw until Summer.

I have a few projects I am holding off on waiting for this saw, and I dont want to build the sleds etc for my contractors saw just to do it again on the new cabinet saw as well. Not to mention I ordered asome low profile riving, and thin kerf knives. Just got my Woodpecker router lift and motor delivered, ready to install on the TS. Waiting. Looking forward to getting rid of my portable router table to save some room.

What would you do?

Maybe God is telling me I should buy the SawStop. Do you think this is holy intervention? :cool:

My wife said "Just keep the other tablesaw, I dont understand why you need another one anyway".

I might have gotten off on temporary insanity, but decided to let her live in the end. She has been nice enough not to keep me around all these years so I owe her that one :rolleyes:

Im really mad. Its not WoodCrafts fault. They dont control Jet's distribution.

I mean 4 months backorder? Are they selling that many EXACTA Deluxes?

[Chris Padilla]

Jet is telling you to buy a different saw other than theirs. SS sounds good but will the wife okay the ~2x price jump? :)

[Ron Kellison]

For the money, why not pick up a nice Steel City unit. The Industrial Fence is even nicer than the Commercial Bies. There is also that 5-year warranty!:)

[Paul Johnstone]

I'd order a different brand as well. I don't like rewarding companies that do stuff like that.

I used to be in manufacturing. They were so big on "just in time" inventory (ordering the bare minimum parts) that we had to shut down production many times because we ran out of something dumb, like a screw that cost about 1 cent..
Maybe Jet hired some of those supply chain guys. :lol:

[Edward Garrett]

Rick - if it were me I would be pretty apoplectic (my word of the day" ;)) at both JET and Woodcraft. I would cancel the order and look elsewhere (boy, if you can get the SS that would be a pretty good turn of events....). Get your money back and shop elsewhere....even if it is via Amazon for the same saw. Almost the same thing happened to me months ago re: a new Freud router - I was told (several days after they took my deposit) that the router would take 3 weeks to arrive. I got my deposit back, found the same item on Amazon, ordered it, and had it in the shop two days later.

If you do go Amazon, try to remember to go through SMC....GOOD LUCK! And again - SS would be my vote if you could swing it with the missus!

[James Hendrix]

I went thru the same thing. Ordered the Jet ProShop with cast wings and the 54" rails. The manager told me it should be in at the end of January. I went in around the 1st of February and was told they saw I ordered was on backorder for about 3 months.

However, he did have one that came in, except it had the 32" rails. I told him I'd take it (and it was about $100 cheaper plus the free clamps). Once I got it home and put together, I was glad I choose the shorter rail and space is a premium in my garage.

I have not used it, but am hoping to use it this weekend.

[James Hendrix]

I was told (several days after they took my deposit) that the router would take 3 weeks to arrive

Does your Woodcraft require a deposit when ordering tools. I tired to give a deposit and even offered to pay the entire price, but the manager said it was not necessary.

[Eric Haycraft]

I mean 4 months backorder? Are they selling that many EXACTA Deluxes?
Yes they are. It is an insanely nice saw for a good price. I wouldn't be surprised if it claims the top selling cabinet saw title.

Anyway, last I heard they still have 5HP models in stock, so you can probably switch your order and get it in a few days.

If you really want a SS, I doubt anything short of it would keep you satisfied, so you may just want to pony up and get one.


Eric

[Rick Gifford]

Well I believe I am once again in the market for a new tablesaw.

Im affraid I dont know alot about the SteelCity but will see what I can find.

The price of the SawStop is going to be a killer. It is two times the price, and dag gone, by the time I add the mobile base and other accessories its just too far out of range.

Looking at Powermatics, not sure the difference in the PM2000 and the Model 66.

My head hurts. I had it all settled and now this. Bah!

[Eric Haycraft]

If you switch to the 5HP model you can probably have the XACTA Dlx in a few days.

[David G Baker]

I would cancel the order as soon as possible. I am not the type to mess around with businesses and companies that can't deliver a product in a reasonable length of time. Do they wait until they get an order prior to manufacturing the item? I can see this in ordering a computer that is assembled from components but not a table saw. As was written is several posts, there are other saws out there that are as good or better in the same price range.

[Jim Dailey]

Rick,

Sounds like you've got some extra time :( ... I'd check around.

Woodcraft doesn't have exclusive rights to Jet.

And Jet is not the only game in town....

jim

[Brent Ring]

I would cancel, and go to the Sawstop. I would think the additional safety would be worth it...

just my .02

[Jim Dailey]

This has to be some kind of record.....

About a one-to-one ratio of people who view this post gave a reply!!!!

And we all seem to be saying the same thing...

Shop for a new saw.

jim

[Ben Cadotte]

Sad part is it's probably already assembled. Just waiting for a container and a ship to bring it over.

I would say there are enought saws out there that you can find another one just as good in stock somewhere. Even my wife said get the SS when she saw the safety features. Your wife may do the same.

[Rod Upfold]

The wives just don't understand - a new saw.

Personally I couldn't justify the money for a SS...if you can - show your wife the hotdog example at their website.

[Ken Werner]

IMHO, A 4 month wait for a TS is not acceptable. I'd cancel the order and look elsewhere.

Good luck.

Ken

[Eric Haycraft]

I would cancel the order as soon as possible. I am not the type to mess around with businesses and companies that can't deliver a product in a reasonable length of time. Do they wait until they get an order prior to manufacturing the item? I can see this in ordering a computer that is assembled from components but not a table saw. As was written is several posts, there are other saws out there that are as good or better in the same price range.

The reality is that they simply sold more then what they expected demand to be and they ran out. Since it is built overseas, it takes a long time to replenish stock if this happens. Think about it this way...what if they had purchased way too many to cover any possible demand instead? That situation is actually worse because if it happens enough it can actually kill a company because all of their money is tied up in inventory. Companies try to have enough on hand to meet demand with a slight buffer - that is the most economical way to run things, but occasionally things like this happen. Chalk it up to human error because someone didn't think that as many would be sold as were sold. We all make mistakes and I think it is a bit unfair to chastise a company for a mistake that any of us could have made.

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

I would cancel the order if it were me.I would look at Grizzly,Steel City,or Powermatic.If it ever needed any parts,how long is that going to take.It is a nice saw,just depends if your willing to wait that long.

[Jude Tuliszewski]

Same as all the rest, pick a different way to get a new saw :(.

[Mark Engel]

I will first put in the obligatory Grizzly plug, since no else has done so, yet. ;)

Amazon appears to have the 5hp model in stock for 1799.99 with a $100.00 rebate and free shipping. In addition, you get a free parallel clamp set with your purchase.

http://www.amazon.com/Jet-708676PK-XACTASAW-Deluxe-Fence/dp/B000WO8CAE/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1204927691&sr=1-6

[Rick Gifford]

Well getting by the wife on the purchase of a SawStop isnt a problem. She lets me spend what I want, since I am responsible for working the overtime that pays for it. She figures if I really want to work overtime to pay for my hobby go right ahead. And I surely do! heh heh

What is also bad about this deal is I used a Jet $100 rebate card, and the saw is at a really good price. So I felt price wise I was getting a great saw at a good price. 10% off at WoodCraft on top of that for everything, saw, stand, accessories.

I really dont think I was spending too much with the discounts and rebates I was receiving. Oh plus some free clamps to boot.

It would be easy to pay an extra $200 and get the 5HP version. Just not convinced I need 5HP, but I am sure there isnt such a thing as too much tablesaw.

But I am like so many here, I am not wanting to reward Jet buy spending more on this messup.

There is a saying dont cut your nose off to spite your face. So I will still do business with them if that is my best interest I guess.

Changing my shopping direction loses the discounts and rebates I was getting, so I now have to figure that in on my overall cost.

On the SawStop... isnt there anyplace at all that sells them under the retail price at all? I actually might go that way if the pricing gets a bit more on the reasonable side. I know the safety factor is a great thing, but it still cost money and I am still a family man trying to make ends meet. Oh the irony! Stuck between responsibility and desire.

Maybe I should take a poll. Ask folks if you could spend $2500 total on a saw and mobile base what would you go with. I bet the answers would be vast and wide.

Im not a tool snob. The only two tools of the same name in my shop is the Jet mini lathe and Jet 18" bandsaw. Nothing else matches.

I just want a saw thats going to be my last purchase and I enjoy using. Is that too much to ask? :p ha

My weekend will be full of searching online. I am shopping baby!

[Sean Troy]

The reality is that they simply sold more then what they expected demand to be and they ran out. Since it is built overseas, it takes a long time to replenish stock if this happens. Think about it this way...what if they had purchased way too many to cover any possible demand instead? That situation is actually worse because if it happens enough it can actually kill a company because all of their money is tied up in inventory. Companies try to have enough on hand to meet demand with a slight buffer - that is the most economical way to run things, but occasionally things like this happen. Chalk it up to human error because someone didn't think that as many would be sold as were sold. We all make mistakes and I think it is a bit unfair to chastise a company for a mistake that any of us could have made.

You couldn't possibly be saying Rick should suffer and suck it up, bend over and grab his ankles so the poor company won't suffer any are you? You mean Rick really should get screwed by them because he's a customer and as such is one of the people who keep them in bussiness? i must have misunderstood.

[Jeremy Taylor]

Definitely shop for a new saw. Even though we know it's not Woodcraft's fault, it wouldn't hurt to let the manager know that they should be a little more proactive for their customers. When a saw is ordered, they need to inquire from the manufacturer when the saw will ship and call the customer with an update. They might lose the sale but it would go a long way to save a customer.

Jeremy

[Eric Haycraft]

Well getting by the wife on the purchase of a SawStop isnt a problem. She lets me spend what I want, since I am responsible for working the overtime that pays for it. She figures if I really want to work overtime to pay for my hobby go right ahead. And I surely do! heh heh

What is also bad about this deal is I used a Jet $100 rebate card, and the saw is at a really good price. So I felt price wise I was getting a great saw at a good price. 10% off at WoodCraft on top of that for everything, saw, stand, accessories.

I really dont think I was spending too much with the discounts and rebates I was receiving. Oh plus some free clamps to boot.

It would be easy to pay an extra $200 and get the 5HP version. Just not convinced I need 5HP, but I am sure there isnt such a thing as too much tablesaw.

But I am like so many here, I am not wanting to reward Jet buy spending more on this messup.

There is a saying dont cut your nose off to spite your face. So I will still do business with them if that is my best interest I guess.

Changing my shopping direction loses the discounts and rebates I was getting, so I now have to figure that in on my overall cost.

On the SawStop... isnt there anyplace at all that sells them under the retail price at all? I actually might go that way if the pricing gets a bit more on the reasonable side. I know the safety factor is a great thing, but it still cost money and I am still a family man trying to make ends meet. Oh the irony! Stuck between responsibility and desire.

Maybe I should take a poll. Ask folks if you could spend $2500 total on a saw and mobile base what would you go with. I bet the answers would be vast and wide.

Im not a tool snob. The only two tools of the same name in my shop is the Jet mini lathe and Jet 18" bandsaw. Nothing else matches.

I just want a saw thats going to be my last purchase and I enjoy using. Is that too much to ask? :p ha

My weekend will be full of searching online. I am shopping baby!


Talk to your vendor then. Not loosing a sale is probably worth something to them. Maybe they will discount the 5HP above and beyond the 10% deal.

[Pat Germain]

That is one slow boat from China! JET makes a good saw, but not good enough to wait six months to receive. There are just too many other good saws out there.

"Hello, Grizzly, I'd like to order a ..."

[Jay Yoder]

I too ordered the saw you speak of last weekend at Woodcraft. i was told end of April. is it true it is now end of May? I got 10% off + $100 rebate and 2 free clamps. Is it possible to change to a 5hp model with 50" fence for a couple $100 more and still get the rebate and the clamps??

[Eric Haycraft]

You couldn't possibly be saying Rick should suffer and suck it up, bend over and grab his ankles so the poor company won't suffer any are you? You mean Rick really should get screwed by them because he's a customer and as such is one of the people who keep them in bussiness? i must have misunderstood.

Please don't try to put words into my mouth. What I am saying is that they have a saw that was more popular than they expected and suddenly everyone on here wants to punish them for having something that was too popular. There are people that wait years on waiting lists for exotic cars. Remember the SS contractor saw, people waited years too and I didn't see near the amount of outrage over that saw that is shown on this thread.

[Alan Trout]

I would just order the 5HP saw and be done with it. It is still a smoking deal on a very good saw. I am one that believes that the company was not trying to deceive anyone it was just a case where demand out paced sales projections. For gosh sakes I wish I have never made a mistake in my life. As much as i wish none of us are perfect.

Good Luck

Alan

[Eric Haycraft]

I too ordered the saw you speak of last weekend at Woodcraft. i was told end of April. is it true it is now end of May? I got 10% off + $100 rebate and 2 free clamps. Is it possible to change to a 5hp model with 50" fence for a couple $100 more and still get the rebate and the clamps??

They did that for another creeker who ordered a 3HP and switched to a 5HP, so I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for another.

[Todd Bin]

There are plenty of choices out there that are as good or better than the JET. Get a different saw. SawStop is nice. Grizzly or General or Powermatic are also winners.

Tell Jet where they can stick it.

[Chris Padilla]

We if I am EVER in the market for a new TS (darn Griz, keeps going and going and going and going....), the two on my list:

(1) SS
(2) PM2k

The PM2k is lower priced and it has built in mobility AND dust collection with a shroud--like the SS. Dust collection is big with me...which is one reason for my love affair with Festool.

[Sean Troy]

Please don't try to put words into my mouth. What I am saying is that they have a saw that was more popular than they expected and suddenly everyone on here wants to punish them for having something that was too popular. There are people that wait years on waiting lists for exotic cars. Remember the SS contractor saw, people waited years too and I didn't see near the amount of outrage over that saw that is shown on this thread.
Eric, I really wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. I just don't think excusing a large company for an error like that is in the best interest in the long run for everyone. I appoligize if I came across harsh (rude). Sean

[Dave Falkenstein]

Grizzly now offers a 3HP cabinet saw with a riving knife as an alternative.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Heavy-Duty-Cabinet-Table-Saw-With-Riving-Knife/G0651

[Rich Schneider]

Well I believe I am once again in the market for a new tablesaw.

Looking at Powermatics, not sure the difference in the PM2000 and the Model 66.

!

The 2000 uses a riving knife/pawl system that curves a little less than half the way over the back of the blade and moves with the blade. Also, the 2000 uses a single wide "flat" belt vs. the multiple V-belts in the 66. The 2000 will be left tilt. The fence and rails are the same on the 2000, 66 and 72. I wrote a review of the 2000 on Amazon after I bought and used it for a while (which is almost 2 years ago now). I compared it to the older Unisaws I had and ultimately sold.

[Eric Haycraft]

Grizzly now offers a 3HP cabinet saw with a riving knife as an alternative.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Heavy-Duty-Cabinet-Table-Saw-With-Riving-Knife/G0651


I saw that one, but I am not totally sold on the new trunnion design on the grizzly models with a RK. The SS, PM and Jet all use traditional designs with the RK attached and I personally feel more comfortable with the time tested designs that the PM, SS, and Jet use. Not sure if the Grizzly will hold up as well with those vertical slides.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Cancel the order and get a Felder.
It'll get here by September 2008.

[Dave Verstraete]

This discussion alone was worth the $6.00 contribution for sheer entertainment value.

All the lurking members need to pony up the $6.00 and join in.

[Jerry Olexa]

Cancel the order and switch to another brand or source. Thats an unacceptable delay...

[glenn bradley]

This discussion alone was worth the $6.00 contribution for sheer entertainment value.

All the lurking members need to pony up the $6.00 and join in.

Boowah-ha-ha-ha. That one got me ;-)

The backorder deal is a pain. I don't think Jet knew how well the saw would do. Of course there is always the alternative: Orion's little hybrid through Sears used to go on sale for $600 every time you turned around. That was a great price for us garage folks. It got very popular and now its full price or take a hike. $1000 is a lot for that saw. What we need is a reasonable price and availability. 10% off the Jet but wait 5 months??? Ouch. Go elsewhere.

[Peter Quinn]

Hey I'm not lurking...I'm standing in the rafters shouting! Though I did spend a long time lurking....

[Daniel Parker]

Cancel the order. If distributors know they will lose sales they will put more pressure on the manufacturers. Definitely put your foot down and dont take it. Order the saw stop or something else. There are plenty of good saws out there ready to be shipped tomorrow. Woodcraft is an overprice ripoff chain anyway.

[Jim Becker]

Personally, I'd just switch to the 5hp and be done with it. Even if you have to pay the full $200 difference, that's one nice machine. And the popularity that has caused the backorder is actually a noteworthy thing...it tells me that the whole riving knife thing is finally hitting home.

[Roger Warford]

FWIW: I ordered the 3hp model a few weeks ago. Found out it was on backorder a few days ago. Called Jet and found out they had eight of the 5HP saws on hand (thanks to a tip from Eric!). I called Woodcraft and they switched my order without any hassle. Called Jet back today and they confirmed that my saw is on the truck and headed my way - should be here in a couple of days.

[J. Z. Guest]

Yeah, I hate that game too.

Here's what is happening. Companies have figured out how much it costs to store saws in a warehouse. So they try to make just enough to meet demand. If they get it right, everyone wins. If not, they end up back-ordered and you lose. It is a crock of crap.

Grizzly did me like that several years ago, with their basic 6" jointer. It went on just exactly like you describe. Finally, I cancelled the order and bought the Jet 6" jointer from Menards. Don't reward that kind of business with your hard-earned money. You bought the saw thinking that they either had it in stock, or would very soon. IMO, a promise has been broken.

I'd probably look for a used Unisaw that folks seem to like so well, or a used PM66. Something that was really, honestly, made in the USA. Something that has been well cared-for. That or one of these rare (to amateurs) industrial brands.

I think the same company that owns Jet owns Powermatic as well, for whatever it is worth.

[Dave Lehnert]

Well getting by the wife on the purchase of a SawStop isnt a problem. She lets me spend what I want, since I am responsible for working the overtime that pays for it. She figures if I really want to work overtime to pay for my hobby go right ahead. And I surely do! heh heh

What is also bad about this deal is I used a Jet $100 rebate card, and the saw is at a really good price. So I felt price wise I was getting a great saw at a good price. 10% off at WoodCraft on top of that for everything, saw, stand, accessories.

I really dont think I was spending too much with the discounts and rebates I was receiving. Oh plus some free clamps to boot.

It would be easy to pay an extra $200 and get the 5HP version. Just not convinced I need 5HP, but I am sure there isnt such a thing as too much tablesaw.

But I am like so many here, I am not wanting to reward Jet buy spending more on this messup.

There is a saying dont cut your nose off to spite your face. So I will still do business with them if that is my best interest I guess.

Changing my shopping direction loses the discounts and rebates I was getting, so I now have to figure that in on my overall cost.

On the SawStop... isnt there anyplace at all that sells them under the retail price at all? I actually might go that way if the pricing gets a bit more on the reasonable side. I know the safety factor is a great thing, but it still cost money and I am still a family man trying to make ends meet. Oh the irony! Stuck between responsibility and desire.

Maybe I should take a poll. Ask folks if you could spend $2500 total on a saw and mobile base what would you go with. I bet the answers would be vast and wide.

Im not a tool snob. The only two tools of the same name in my shop is the Jet mini lathe and Jet 18" bandsaw. Nothing else matches.

I just want a saw thats going to be my last purchase and I enjoy using. Is that too much to ask? :p ha

My weekend will be full of searching online. I am shopping baby!

If you are mad at Jet and don't want to send money their way. You are aware Powermatic is the same company as JET?

[Rick Gifford]

Yes I am. Im not really mad at Jet, or even WoodCraft. Just mad in general.

I think Jet has gotten overwhelmed with orders for this saw. It is what it is. I think the store could have done a better job keeping tabs on my order (it was the only one hanging in the office highlighted yellow for "I wonder where this guys saw is at?") but no follow up.

I think Jet could do some better communicating with backorders. How long has it been on such a long backorder? The original ship date was around Feb 27th. Probably knew a week before that there was no chance in shipment.

I am still weighing my options. I want to keep my discounts if possible so I will probably go talk to the manager and see what we can do.

I like the folks at my local WoodCraft, good people and always a help. I am not throwing out the option of just getting the 5HP model if we can come to an agreement, and part of that agreement is the saw will arrive fast. None of this 4 months stuff.

We'll see.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'm going to give a slightly different point of consideration.

If you want the saw right now and can handle the additional cost of the 5hp upgrade. Do it.

If you can't but you can find another similar product in stock for sale at an equal quality level for a similar price and you need the tool right now. Do it.


This is the reality of our global economyand global manufacturing world. Companies are in the business of making money. You can check around and there are probably more expensive saws of equal or better quality in stock ready for delivery. All companies that sell products made in foriegn factories try to forecast what their needs are for a given period of time. Air Freight is extremely expensive. Shipping by sea going vessels is cheaper but takes more time. Production in foreign or domestic factories is based on a schedule. So if a a company like Jet or Grizzley or any other manufacturer...if SawStop....decides to have a sale and the number sold exceeds the current on hand supply there will be a delay in delivery. This delay could be due to the factory having to tool up to produce that particular product.....they have to wait to finish their current production run on a different product before they can setup to produce the product you and others want to buy on sale. Then there is the shipping. The odds are there are no ships waiting at the nearest port to the manufacturing plant just in case that plant has a product to bring to a given port in this country. It is also likely that the ship that does bring that tool to this country has other products and deliveries to make enroute to this country.

Another consideration is that companies pay taxes on products sitting in stock....ie not sold....inventory.....It is not to their advantage or their customers advantage to have a large number of unsold products sitting in inventory because they will have to pay taxes on them as inventory.


You beat your chest and say "this is poor customer service"......Not really...It's bad that they don't have them in stock......It's poor customer service if you order one and they don't get back to you in a reasonable amount of time to inform you of the delay. That's poor customer service.

The alternative is to pay bigger bucks for a domestically made product that will do the same thing.

Most of us can't afford the Northfields....etc. That's also why companies like Delta, etc...have moved their operations overseas....cheaper manufacturing costs allows the company to expand their customer base. Personally, everytime I buy a new piece of equipment for my shop, I have to make a decision. Can I afford a domestic product or can I wait until I can afford a domestic product. Or can I buy an equal quality foreign made product at a lower price and have the tool right now?

Just recently I had Oneida design my DC system. Their recommendation was that their 2 hp Super Dust Gorrilla would satisfy my needs. 2 days later I got a call. There were no 2 hp Baldor motors in their stock and Baldor was going to take several weeks to deliver them to Oneida. Would I be willing to wait or would I consider upgrading to a 2.5 hp. I agreed to upgrade. When the system arrived it was a 3 hp with a little note explaining that by the time they got ready to ship my 2.5 hp there were no 2.5 hp Baldor motors in stock so they upgraded my system to 3 hp Baldor motor at no additional cost to me. Baldor motors are made here in the US in Arkansas. I'm glad to hear that Baldor is so busy they can't keep up with Oneida's needs. That means some jobs are safe for a while.

Companies not being able to deliver a product within a given time....well...that's a business reality..

[Ken Fitzgerald]

BTW Rick.....I really do sympathize with you predicament. I hope a reasonable solution comes your way!

[dale rex]

why not buy a Delta Unisaw from Woodcraft? I think they still have them there. I bought mine a few years ago from Woodcraft and am extremely happy with it.

[Scott Velie]

I would start haggling. Woodcrafts are franchises. He wants your order. Tell him you will wait for an additional 15-20% (whatever you can get.) Have the owner call woodcraft to see what THEY will do also. The owner has some profit room but Woodcraft can also give him a deal.
Next option call Your jet rep. Tell him they are about to loose your business see what he will do.
If you can wait get something out of them. If you cant. Settle for second choice

[Jay Yoder]

I spoke with My "local" woodcraft owner this morning. He told me that his rep had promised early April shipment. He seemed kinda surprised of the May delivery date. He is going to confirm on Monday. He is a great guy and i know it is not his fault. Besides, i cant bring it home now anyhow, we got about 8" of the white stuff yesterday and this morning, and they say more is on the way...April works ok, I still have to figure out how to get it into the basement. Any local guys who want some beer in exchange for muscles?

[Mark Engel]

Now see, Scott's got it right.

Turn the situation to your advantage. Use this advantage to try to negotiate a better deal. All the cards are in your hand at this point. If you can use the situation to get a better price through waiting, or to get an upgrade to the 5hp for small or zero dollars, why not do it? If neither the store or Jet want to budge on the deal, cancel and move on. Use whatever leverage you have to try to sweeten the deal in your favor. That's the American way! :D

[Art Mann]

why not buy a Delta Unisaw from Woodcraft? I think they still have them there. I bought mine a few years ago from Woodcraft and am extremely happy with it.

I just read this whole thread and your post is about the first one that mentions Delta. I don't think that is a coincidence. I just think it is a sad thing when such a venerable old tool manufacturer falls so far behind in quality/value/technology that they aren't even on most people's list. Generally speaking, Delta isn't on my list either. The Woodcraft store closest to me had almost no Delta equipment on display. I just hope they can get their act together and recover some of their reputation.

[Grant Vanbokklen]

Maybe God is telling me I should buy the SawStop. Do you think this is holy intervention? :cool:

Without a doubt.

[Jeff Miller]

This is what I would get with your money.Oh........ just send me the money and I'll do the shopping for you:D


http://www.amazon.com/Powermatic-1792000K-Horsepower-Accu-Fence-Extension/dp/B000BWY78I/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1204999116&sr=8-1




JEFF

[John Gornall]

A friend said he was interested in a table saw and wondered if I would look out for a good deal. I did a quick search in the usual online sources and found there are vast numbers of used table saws for sale. It should be no problem to buy a good name brand cabinet saw for half the price of a new one. And often the old ones are better quality. I wouldn't even look at new saws. However if I wanted a new saw I'd find a real toolstore with saws on the showroom floor and go get one - I won't buy a major tool without putting my hands on the one I'm getting before I drop the credit card.

[Eric Haycraft]

why not buy a Delta Unisaw from Woodcraft? I think they still have them there. I bought mine a few years ago from Woodcraft and am extremely happy with it.
Probably due to the riving knife. That was the main reason for my upgrade to the Jet and I am sure it is the same for many others.

[Jesse Cloud]

If you really want the Jet, wait for it, take delivery, then tell the vendor, "Oh I'm sorry - it appears your check will be on backorder for 6 months.":D

[Art Travers]

I really do not know what the fascination is with Woodcraft or Rockler..
I purchase most of my tools from Amazon..Usually with free shipping
and no tax...
I ordered the new 3hp exacta on Jan 15 from Amazon, it was delivered
on Jan 23...Sorry to hear that you are getting a run-around..

For example, I odered some blades from Amazon and for some reason,
the order got fouled up...To make it up to me they discounted the blades
20% and sent them OVN mail..You can bet Woodcraft or Rockler would
never do that..
I also had a altercation with Rockler over jointer they
listed in a flyer with free shipping which was only available at a local
store which would not include the free shipping.. Got it at Amazon with
the discount and free shipping..

[Chris Barnett]

Jet is WMH and WMH is Powermatic. Don't know why all the stir about Jet or Powermatic. Cancel the order and call Muncy (thats where Griz is located); you will probably be happier).

[Rick Gifford]

I really do not know what the fascination is with Woodcraft or Rockler..
I purchase most of my tools from Amazon..Usually with free shipping
and no tax...
I ordered the new 3hp exacta on Jan 15 from Amazon, it was delivered
on Jan 23...Sorry to hear that you are getting a run-around..


I looked at Amazon, the Deluxe was not in stock and it said "dont know when it will be". If you purchase at the retail store at Woodcraft shipping is free. Anything shipped to the store is free shipping, send it to your home and they charge you. This doesn't help anyone that does not have a local Woodcraft though.

With the 10% off sale the store was having, and even though I paid 6% sales tax, it was cheaper than Amazon by 4% that way. Without that 10% sale it wouldn't have been worth it.

I order alot from Amazon. Free shipping and no tax is the way to go!

But sometimes the local stores do better in cases like this. Except in this case I DONT HAVE A SAW :rolleyes: lol

I am looking at what Amazon has now for my purchase. However if the local store still wants to give me 10% off.. well we'll see. Sale is over, but I think consideration in my case will be given.

[Fred Voorhees]

Well, dang. I might just have to go with a 5HP instead of a 3HP. I've got a email with questions out there pertaining to this, but I'll ask it here also. If I go to the 5HP, what will the difference be as far as cost of receptacle, cost of breaker and any other nuances associated with upgrading to a 5 from a 3? I have the wiring run that will handle 220, would both the 3HP and 5HP use the same wiring? You will have to excuse my lack of the electrical knowledge needed here.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Fred....The 5 hp should require 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp breaker. I don't know that there was a whole lot of difference in the local Borg for the 30 amp breakers, twist lock plugs or outlets and the 20 amp stuff. I had to get the 30 amp stuff for my MM-16.

[Eric Haycraft]

Well, dang. I might just have to go with a 5HP instead of a 3HP. I've got a email with questions out there pertaining to this, but I'll ask it here also. If I go to the 5HP, what will the difference be as far as cost of receptacle, cost of breaker and any other nuances associated with upgrading to a 5 from a 3? I have the wiring run that will handle 220, would both the 3HP and 5HP use the same wiring? You will have to excuse my lack of the electrical knowledge needed here.

The motor on mine says 18 amps (which leads me to believe that it is more like 4.5HP instead of 5, but that's another discussion). However, I have it on a 30 and would suggest the same for you.

[Don Bullock]

Rick, if you have seriously considered a SawStop then go for it. You deserve it for all that overtime you put in. Yes, I realize how hard it is to "pull the trigger" on that much cash, and there are no discounts but you're worth it. I did save some on mine because of the "extra service" my dealer gave me. Find a dealer who will throw in some extras in service if you buy one from them.

[Fred Voorhees]

Fred....The 5 hp should require 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp breaker. I don't know that there was a whole lot of difference in the local Borg for the 30 amp breakers, twist lock plugs or outlets and the 20 amp stuff. I had to get the 30 amp stuff for my MM-16.

Thanks Ken and Eric. Jim Becker suggested I run a seperate circuit a number of years ago for the eventual upgrade to a 220 cab saw. I have to go out and check the wiring guage and the breaker and see what I currently have.

[Steve Sawyer]

I really do not know what the fascination is with Woodcraft or Rockler..You can bet Woodcraft or Rockler would
never do that..

Au Contraire.

Rockler last year had a special on Jet 10" handscrew clamps during the holidays with free shipping, and - like Jet with this saw - underestimated demand and ran out. When they received some fresh stock (a week or so later) they filled all the backorders, but a technical glitch caused a few of us to fall through the cracks, and it wasn't discovered until we called or emailed and asked what had happened to our orders.

I received a call from a customer service rep who:
Explained about the screw-up
Apologized for the delay
Promised to ship my clamps that day via express next-day delivery
Asked if there was anything else I'd like to add to the order (still under the free shipping offer from the previous month when I'd ordered the clamps!!), to which I responded "Yes".
Sent me a $25 Rockler gift card for my inconvenience.To be honest, I can't imagine Amazon doing anything similar.

Whether my vendor will do anything of the sort for me (I too am looking at a major delay in getting my Deluxe XACTA) remains to be seen, but as far as I can tell, they're doing everything they can to avoid further disappointment.
I must have a riving knife.
The Grizzly won't fit in my shop with those extensions.
The G0661 Grizzly hybrid won't ship until July
I can't afford a SawStop or a PM2000 (I can barely afford the Jet!!)I want this saw.

[Glenn Clabo]

Au Contraire.
To be honest, I can't imagine Amazon doing anything similar.


Au Contraire...your...Au Contraire...;)
The few times over the years since it started, 3 (out of 100's:o) as I remember, I have a problem worthy of a complaint to Amazon I have received VERY good service...including free shipping, discounts and gift certificates. One time they told me to keep the item, a crystal bowl, and they would send me the right one!

[Steve Sawyer]

Au Contraire...your...Au Contraire...

I guess I haven't had a chance to "test" Amazon's customer service! :)

Interesting illustration of some research done a number of years ago - that companies that screw up occasionally but really make a good impression by the way they recover from the error are perceived as superior to those companies that do things right virtually 100% of the time!

[Rick Gifford]

I figured this thread would be the place to continue on my table saw odyssey.

I had decided to buy the Powermatic 2000. Heavy trunion, great reviews, etc etc.

Woodcraft also honored 10% off even though the sale was long over. This saw was a bit more expensive but I decided to go with the upgrade.

I was actually glad to make the change and looking forward to the PM.

The manager called Powermatic and asked if the model I wanted was in stock. Yes, its sitting right here in the warehouse. Good the manager says, we are ordering it.

Delivery in a week, two at most. No problem I say.

Three weeks later no tablesaw. I ask about it, they call and are told the saw is there but the rails are on backorder. Delivery will now be April 28th.

But we asked you if it was there and ready to ship the manager told them. Whatever the exact answer was I dont know, but even the Woodcraft manager was irritated by it.

Me too. For some reason WMH toolgroup doesn't want me to have one of their saws.

I officially give up. I wont be dealing with WMH on this purchase and I am now shopping again. I sold my Bosch contractors saw, so right now I dont have a TS in my shop. Ever realise just how much you really use a tool when you dont have it?

Oh well. I am way past the point of being irritated. Its actually almost funny now. The whole thing is one of those story's you say "Man, that bites" and chuckle over how bad it is. Laugh so you dont cry sort of :rolleyes: lol

If I could see a Grizzly up close I would consider it. Maybe Tool City would be a good choice. I dunno. I just want a solid saw that I wont ever need to rebuy. Something so solid my grandson will still be using it years later. My absolute top budget available is around $2500. The main reason SawStop is out. I'd buy it, but they never have a sale it seems, and you always pay for the shipping ($400 non-negotiable if delivered to the store, or $550 to your home) Throw on a base, and a 30" table extension and you have some serious money put out by the time your done. I dont see anyone selling them used.

Well thats my update. I'm going to relax and keep looking. I believe the right saw will come my way. I may just need to be patient. Thanks for listening to my rant and story. Maybe we can laugh together over it!

[Mike Heidrick]

Rick, looks like $2300 and free shipping from amazon on the PM2000. Ships in 3-5 days and their estimates are very accurate if not long. I had an item ship within a week when it said 6 weeks delivery. In case you want to try round two with WMH. It is a great saw!!

$1600 after $100 rebate for the Jet Deluxe 5hp and it comes with free Jet clamps.

[Lance Norris]

Rick... You have helped me several times with answers, I enjoy reading your posts, and so I consider you as a friend. Quit messing around, giving yourself a headache and order a Griz 1023. I understand you want to see one in person. I have never seen one myself, but from everything I have read, and I am sure what you have read about them also, plus my experience with other high end Grizzly tools, its the one of the best saws at any price. I didnt read all 71 posts before mine, but I did skim through them. I saw several mentions about riving knifes. If you are looking for a saw that has a RK, I would just get a quick release splitter and be done with it. Save the money and be happy. I just added a Delta quick release splitter to my cabinet saw and its really sweet. No more messing with tools, on and off in seconds, follows any bevel angle and my guard mounts to it. Riving knife...? Dont need one, thanks. When your Griz comes, you will get to see one in person right there in the comfort of your own shop, with no one bothering you. I cant believe you wont be happy with it. Times waisting, life is short, get going, and make some sawdust.

[J. Z. Guest]

I think this is a sign from above to find a good used one on craigslist or ebay. A Unisaw or PM66. You will save a ton of money off the price of a new one, and get that old world craftsmanship. Plus, you'll KNOW it is in stock, and if you buy locally, you can touch it and give it the twice-over.

http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/wv

Oh, and don't forget to write an email to WMH letting them know how they blew it with their poor stocking situation.

[Curt Doles]

Hey Rick,

I had a similar story with Woodcraft. I think I waited about a month and decided I would buy a Unisaw at an upcoming competing vendors sale. The sale was Friday and Saturday, Woodcraft called on Thursday telling me the saw was in. I picked up the Xacta that evening. That was the middle of February. I had no problem with Woodcraft, they were honest and upfront about the delay, great people to work with.

It was hard to imagine Jet not having a better handle on getting a product to a consumer? The saw is fantastic, but I'm comparing it to a 25 year old Craftsman. The Unisaw didn't have the riving knife and the comparable Grizzly, I couldn't see it other than in the catalog.

I did do a lot of Craigs list searches and found a couple of 66's and Unisaws, they were either right tilt or 3 phase. Not what I was looking for.

Anyway, hang in there, this will hopefully work out for you, maybe even better...

Curt

[John Shuk]

Call The Tool Nut. They sell Jet as well as Powermatic. WWW.toolnut.com

[Randal Stevenson]

I figured this thread would be the place to continue on my table saw odyssey.

I had decided to buy the Powermatic 2000. Heavy trunion, great reviews, etc etc.

Woodcraft also honored 10% off even though the sale was long over. This saw was a bit more expensive but I decided to go with the upgrade.

I was actually glad to make the change and looking forward to the PM.

The manager called Powermatic and asked if the model I wanted was in stock. Yes, its sitting right here in the warehouse. Good the manager says, we are ordering it.



Do they have ANY floor demo models that they could take the fence and rails off of?

[Fred Woodward]

You can probably get a set of PM rails for about $100 on that auction site. That's what I did when refurbing my PM66. Actually bought a set of 30" rails and later got a set of 50". It was about $125 for either set. Brand new rails and all the mounting hardware.

That does suck though about the Jet; I feel your pain.

[Pat Germain]

I'm pretty sure the Denver Rockler has PowerMatic table saws in stock. Are you anywhere near a Rockler store? That way you could do a laying on of hands and walk out the door with it.

I'm wondering what's going on with PowerMatic/Jet. Since they are under the same parent company, perhaps they're experiencing some serious labor pains trying to birth the latest reorg and offshoring efforts.

Considering the negative comments about fit and finish problems with PM, in addition to vaporware orders from both JET and PM, I think looking elsewhere would be the the best plan these days. We are fortunate to have lots of choices with woodworking machinery these days. Exploit it.

[Fred Voorhees]

Yes they are. It is an insanely nice saw for a good price. I wouldn't be surprised if it claims the top selling cabinet saw title.

Anyway, last I heard they still have 5HP models in stock, so you can probably switch your order and get it in a few days.

If you really want a SS, I doubt anything short of it would keep you satisfied, so you may just want to pony up and get one.


Eric

Eric, to be honest, when I was going to go the 5 HP route because of the delay, but when I checked the Rockler site (where I ordered my 3 HP Jet) the 5 HP was actually a longer wait than the 3 HP unit. I am hoping to have my delivery within two or three weeks. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[Rick Gifford]

I sent the following to the WMH Toolgroup company:

I would like to voice my displeasure on troubles I have had trying to buy your products.

Beginning of February I purchased from Woodcraft of Parkersburg, WV the 10" Jet XACTA 50" 3HP tablesaw. I also ordered a dado insert and a coiple low profile riving knives. Deliver would be 2 to three weeks.

A month later, first of March, I asked about the delivery. Woodcraft called and was now told shippment was to be send May 28th. I wouldnt get my new tablesaw until June!

After considering the Grizzly's, ToolCity, Unisaws etc, I decided to cancel tis order and purchase a Powermatic 2000 10" tablesaw, 30" rails. It was $500 more but I felt it would be a great saw. So now I have waited for a bad order for nothing, and ended up spending more money to fix the problem.

Woodcraft called the distribution and asked if the PM2000 model I wanted was in stock and ready to go. Yes, its right here they said. It was ordered immediatey. I also ordered a dado insert and a couple riving knives.
Shipment would be one to two weeks.

Ok I said, so I sold my other tablesaw and have been without one in my shop for about 6 weeks by the time this one gets here. But it is what it is.

3 weeks later I asked about the delivery. Woodcraft called and was told it is backordered and shipment is now April 28th. But we asked and you said it was there ready to go the manager said. Uh yea, the saw is here, but the rails are backordered.

I have had enough. I cancelled this order as well.

I tried very hard to stick with Jet or Powermatic, I like the tools. I own a Jet mini lathe and a Jet 18" 3HP Bandsaw. Great tools.

As a woodworker I am extremely put off not having a tablesaw. I cant rely on getting one here.

Now I have to look for second best. I wanted you to know what has happened. I can't express my disappointment in the whole thing. I really wanted that PM 2000.

I stuck with Woodcraft because I like to support local retailers and I was getting 10% off my purchase. Free shipping to their store. A good deal for me. I will now be forced to pay more for a lesser saw.

On top of it I dont have a tablesaw in my shop. Thats what I get for trusting my order and selling my old tablesaw.

Thank you for listening to my complaint.
Rick Gifford
Vienna, WV

Ok maybe I relished a little on buying a lesser saw for more and all, but a little bragging on the products doesnt hurt.

This should pretty much end my ordeal on this route. I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks everyone.

Rick

[Curt Doles]

Great letter, calm and precise!
It will be interesting to see how/if they respond.

I had a similar beef with Ford on an Expedition I owned. The same module failed three times under warranty and a fourth just outside the warranty.

I thought they might cover part or all of the expense for the part that failed 4 times. The response I received from the "I hate my job" representitive was, the warranty has expired, what part don't you understand.

I've bought about eight cars since then, not one Ford.

Good Luck,
Curt

[Mike Heidrick]

I am thinking because your Woodcraft cannot work with a distributor/warehouse who can order and keep stock, you are now going to send a note to WMH and buy a saw you do not really want.

WMH does not care if you buy a saw from them or not or about your one Woodcraft dealer in WV who cannot seem to get a saw shipped to him.

Call some dealers that have the saw in stock. If you are getting a good deal on a Saw, others are too and you may have to wait a bit to get that deal. Otherwise pay the normal going rate and get your saw faster.

Myself and others have given you recomendations on where to find the saw you really want in stock. If you buy a saw you do not want it will eat at you all the time while you use it. In your mind you have to pass up the "1st place" saw because of the first dealer you choose. I think you need to pass up the 1st place dealer and not the 1st place saw.

[Mike Ryschkewitsch]

I just got a Woddcraft flyer with 10% off all Jet tools on April 12. If you want the Jet, I'd go in on April 12th and ask for the 10% off and cancel and re-order if necessary.
:)
Mike R

[Steve Sawyer]

Oh, and don't forget to write an email to WMH letting them know how they blew it with their poor stocking situation.

Not to be the cynic here, but do you think they really care? My experience has shown that companies that provide poor service or who allow poor customer relationship experiences to occur, aren't unaware of their level of performance. They have made a calculated decision to be a particular kind of company, and what we see as customers or potential customers is the result.

It's apparent that demand for these two products (the Deluxe XACTA and perhaps the PM2000) has exceeded their projections, even in this crappy economy. My take on this particular situation is that someone in marketing has decided that to acknowledge this as a failure and to try to correct the problem even in some small way, would detract from the "premium product" cachet that a shortage of a product can imply. Note that the distributor I'm doing business with has been unable to get any kind of confirmation that the saw I am waiting for will indeed be supplied from the shipment WMH is expecting in late April. My concern is that this shipment may be oversold (they under estimated demand remember...) but my concerns and obviously those of many other disappointed customers aren't shared by the company.

Thus I won't waste any time trying to make the company aware of my dissatisfaction. I'd like to "punish" them by canceling my order, but a) my saw will just go to the next anxious customer in line and b) I really want this particular saw :rolleyes:.

[Steve Sawyer]

I am thinking because your Woodcraft cannot work with a distributor/warehouse who can order and keep stock, you are now going to send a note to WMH and buy a saw you do not really want.

I don't think this issue lies with the distributors, Mike. There are several of us that are running into the same problem, and we're all doing business through different distributors. As to having product "in stock", I don't know of any distributors that can afford to stock table saws in any quantity. The distributor I'm working with is one of two major industrial machinery distributors that I know of in my area, and neither keeps this kind of product in stock. Consider that if they just wanted to stock the Jet line, they'd have to stock about 8 units just to cover all the optional configurations of the two 10" cabinet saws. That's a lot of money (and space!) tied up in one part of one product line. Then there are the jointers, planers, band saws, lathes etc. and if they sell multiple brands like Delta, PM, Jet, Steel City...well, you get the picture.

No, this situation is the fault of the manufacturer, and finding a distributor who has the exact saw that we're looking for in stock ready for delivery would be just a case of dumb luck.

[Raymond Fries]

I would not wait. There are many competitors that have excellent saws as well.

My $0.02 worth...

[Mike Gabbay]

Rick - Does the Woodcraft have either saw on their showroom floor? If so, they should sell it to you at a reduced priced given all of your hassles. Otherwise, look at the Generals. I looked long and hard at the General and the PM. Overall I liked the General far better. Even when I talked with the PM dealer, they just did not have a lot of great things to say about the saws now that they are made overseas. I'm waiting for mine to come in. So far it is looking like next week. I've already sold my saw so I'm in the same boat as you.

[Mike Heidrick]

Yeah I am wrong here then. Sorry I spoke up - not really my battle. Looks like this is just a HOT saw right now - actually both are HOT saws right now. I hope you boys get them soon. That new Jet Deluxe and the PM2000s are dream saws. Seriously, try amazon - They have shipped a large portion of my HUGE Delta tools to me all very QUICKLY. ABF and Eagle freightlines work well for amazon and liftgate is free if you ask for it.


I know you hate hearing about the sawstop too, but if you need one other crazy saw idea, you may be able to find one in stock. High price on these means they do not fly out of the showrooms as fast as the others. I waited two weeks to get a 5hp model but there was a 3hp in stock when I bought it and that was in a town of 100K peopel at a Woodcraft. Also everything is a la carte so there are not 8 options with this saw. Don't want their fence - buy a different one. Money is not the same though - hell you could buy a PM2000 and a Jet Deluxe and still save money. Anyway, Good luck boys.

BTW - Used the dado on the sawstop today and the switchover is very fast. Took the time to clean up the 10" WWII while it was off. Man it was due. Clean your blades up while waiting on your saws!

[Rick Gifford]

Mike Gabbay,

I havent seen the Generals but I plan to. Thanks for the input.

Mike Heidrick,

I promise you I wont buy a saw I dont really want. The second best comment is only for their benefit.

I hope you are wrong that WMH doesnt care if I buy a saw from them then their business is in trouble. Stop caring about the customers and they'll stop caring about you. But honestly I didnt write them for them to fix my issues. I think they would appreciate knowing any troubles so it wont happen again to someone else. Some companies do, some don't.

[Terry Achey]

Rick,

If you don't mind driving to south central PA, (or having shipped from), give this guy a call. FSM Tools is a small distributor and had a 3hp JET Exacta Deluxe in stock when I bought mine in February. He may have more. 717-867-5359. Ask for Frank. Worth a call to find out.

Terry

[Steve Sawyer]

I know you hate hearing about the sawstop too, but if you need one other crazy saw idea, you may be able to find one in stock.

Actually, my wife wanted me to buy a SawStop, and I wanted one too, but I can't see going into debt for this hobby. I can pay cash for the Jet today. I'd have to save for another year to buy the SawStop. I figure that the next best thing safety-wise is a riving knife and overarm guard. Personally I think that the riving knives are one of the things making these two saws hot (along with the Grizzly G0661 that is also on backorder until July!! :eek:)


Clean your blades up while waiting on your saws!

That's exactly what I'm doing ;)

[Rick Gifford]

Thanks Terry, I'll have a look at how far it is and call about the pricing if doable. Appreciate the information.

[Mike Heidrick]

So what saws can people actually get right now then? Steel City or Generals? Any with a RK??

[Rick Gifford]

It is all over now.

First on the Powermatic: I sent a letter to WMH as posted above. I was offered the 50" table for the price of a 30" ($100 savings). I did appreciate that, and the savings would be great. But I did explain I couldnt use the 50" table as I would be crammed. Actually I originally ordered it on the Jet XACTA and I am glad now I didnt get what I asked for there. I would have ended up selling the extension and ordering the shorter one later I am sure.

WMH had nothing more to say. They did not discuss their distribution troubles, did not say they would look into it, or applogize for the troubles except the 50" table for the price of the 30" if I'd take that. Pretty much a flat offer. Im not complaining there, but I do hope they get their deliveries and communications in line with each other.

I had planned a road trip to PA to look at Grizzley, and I had a couple more saws to look at. Still if I could get that SawStop wouldnt that be great.

I started calling around. Negotiations with the SawStop pricing is limited. SawStop has it all locked up.

I ended up purchasing the SS with 36" extension and tables and an extra brake. It is being lift gate delivered to my home for less money than I could pick it up at my local WoodCraft. A couple hundred less.

I would have been very happy with that PM 2000. I'm still sorry it didnt work out. I don't think I'll be sorry on the SawStop. Plus when my boys are ready to start learning there will be little extra protection in place.

My budget has went over and I am officially broke for tool purchasing. I have to make my wife a few very nice things to smooth over the sting of the expense.

But I got my saw...

[J. Z. Guest]

A lot of hassle, but a happy ending.

The SawStop mechanism is kind of like a seatbelt. You pray you will never need it, but if you do, it will pay for itself.

[Lance Norris]

It is all over now.

I ended up purchasing the SS with 36" extension and tables and an extra brake. It is being lift gate delivered to my home for less money than I could pick it up at my local WoodCraft. A couple hundred less.

Get out the hotdogs.


I have to make my wife a few very nice things to smooth over the sting of the expense.

Thats how I justify a new tool purchase.


But I got my saw...

Finally. Now I can sleep tonight.:D Congratulations Rick, and dont forget...

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/images/smilies2/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutp.gif

[John Dorough]

Rick,

Did you find anyone willing to negotiate price on the SawStop? If so, to what degree? I am a long way from you, so it may not matter, but from whom did you end up buying the saw?

Thanks,
John

[Bill Edwards(2)]

This is a long thread, so if someone else mentioned this, I'm sorry.

Isn't Jet sold at Home Depot?

They may be the reason for the long backorder.

The big chains put a lot of demand on supploers.

[Lance Norris]

Isn't Jet sold at Home Depot?


Ive never seen Jet at HD, but Sears sells Jet.

[Steve Sawyer]

Isn't Jet sold at Home Depot?

They may be the reason for the long backorder.

The big chains put a lot of demand on supploers.

You may have a point there, as just prior to my order of the Deluxe XACTA (like maybe a week before) Amazon was offering it with free delivery for $1499.

That alone might have put the hurt on their inventory.

[Brodie Brickey]

Rick,

Congratulations on you SS purchase. I've enjoyed this thread like few others in a long time. Please post pictures when everything comes in.

Regards,

Brodie Brickey

[Peter Quinn]

Seems like when I got my PM66 a few years ago from amazon (when they were still associated with Tool Crib) it was shipped from PM warehouse in Tennessee directly, never actually from another source. It arrived 5 days after I placed the order. I wasn't even ready for it! I had to move my skill saw out of the way:D:D:D

When I ordered my PM band saw the Amazon screen said "In stock, ships immediately", 3 months of waiting later I walked into a local retailer and bought one on sale for less, cash and carry! Cancelled that amazon order quick. I waited 3 more months to get the riser block from PM via Amazon! I called WMH in the interim who told me they were on a slow boat from Taiwan. No one had them. I had only ordered the longer blades so the saw sat crated.

The riser block eventually arrived at the same time as a PM mobile base, unfortunately the one for the previous series of saw which did not fit my new saw. It was well made and I found another use for it so never complained, can't say I was thrilled. Still wondering why WMH sent me the wrong base. I wasn't willing to wait any longer and bought an HTC.

I can't say I trust Amazon's 'In Stock' window as its been wrong as often as its been right for me (there have been plenty of other purchases). Also most large machines 'Sold By Amazon' are drop shipped from the manufacturer, so if WMH doesn't have one neither will Amazon.

I am a patient man when it comes to machines I want. I have been waiting months for a Laguna mortiser and will continue to wait until it arrives. Of course Laguna was very frank about estimated shipping dates and availability which gave me the option to shop around and buy something sooner if I chose.

Seems like buying tools made over seas in todays Just in Time economy has its perils. The PM2000 looks like a nice tool. I'd do the waiting personally, as it would give me an opportunity to get reacquainted with all my other tools, like my skill saw! Sucks feeling jerked around like Charlie Brown, but in this case you will eventually get to kick the football.

[Steven Hardy]

Thanks Terry, I'll have a look at how far it is and call about the pricing if doable. Appreciate the information.

If its any consolation....in early march I tried ordering a UNISAW from two differant places. They ALSO had an extended delivery date of may.

Woodcraft did not have any Unisaws on display and the salesguy was quite misinformative about the Unisaw as well. I suspect that they have a higher margin on the diplay models they DO carry.

[Steve Sawyer]

As frustrated as I and many others have been with Jet, it seems they do know how to under-promise and over deliver. When informed of the backorder on my 3HP Deluxe XACTA my distributor was told that it could be expected to arrive at Jet's warehouse with a shipment due around April 25th.

I called the distributor and asked about it today, wondering if we'd receive any advance shipping notice or if it would just show up. The distributor said he hadn't checked on it in about a month, and said he'd do so and let me know what he found out.

He called back to say that the darn thing had just arrived at their dock!!

Woo Hoo!!

[Steve Vaughn]

I saw them demonstrate the hotdog trick on the new SS contractor's model at the Houston woodworking show. After looking at the hotdog I'm sure that if it was my finger I could stop the bleeding with a styptic pencil. The only thing I would need a bandaid for is to keep dirt out of the nick. When that blade hit the hotdog you couldn't even see it disappear. I was concentrating on the point of contact and it was like the blade was there one second and gone the next. Very impressive.

Steve

[Steve Sawyer]

I was concentrating on the point of contact and it was like the blade was there one second and gone the next.

Yeah, it's kinda spooky!! :)

[Scott Vigder]

Great Thread! It reminds all of us how much competition is out there for us to choose from.

When I bought my X5 Unisaw a few years back, I did an exhausting search that included a lot of driving around (back when gas was ONLY $1.75) to do hands-on touchy-feely with the equipment.

Looking back, I can honestly say just about every unit I looked at would have met my requirements. The differences (then) between the PM, General, Jet, and Delta were ultimately minor.

It boiled down to quality, price and performance. If you have identified two or three saws that meet or match these three areas, say goodbye Jet and hello new saw.

For the record the X5 has performed flawlessly.

[Steve Sawyer]

In general you're right that we have a lot of quality machinery choices available to us. But at this point in time for some of us, the choices are a bit limited. Some of us (myself included) have decided that a riving knife is a critical, must-have safety feature. Once you make that decision, your choices are narrowed considerably.

Right now I think Grizzly has 3 models (one of which is being backordered), Jet has one (also scarce), PM has one, Steel City has one that isn't shipping yet, and of course the SawStops. Delta has none, General has none. Craftsman has none. Oh, one of the Bosch contractor's saws has one too.

I expect this situation to change significantly over the next 12 months as new models are introduced, and the riving knife becomes more common. As the economy improves, we'll also see manufacturers willing to keep a bit more inventory on-hand, so we'll see fewer cases of having to wait many weeks for delivery of a new piece of equipment.

[Yun-Fong Loh]

As frustrated as I and many others have been with Jet, it seems they do know how to under-promise and over deliver. When informed of the backorder on my 3HP Deluxe XACTA my distributor was told that it could be expected to arrive at Jet's warehouse with a shipment due around April 25th.

I called the distributor and asked about it today, wondering if we'd receive any advance shipping notice or if it would just show up. The distributor said he hadn't checked on it in about a month, and said he'd do so and let me know what he found out.

He called back to say that the darn thing had just arrived at their dock!!

Woo Hoo!!

Woo hoo, here, too! I had been holding my breath since I got a shipping notice last Friday with delivery of next Monday. FWIW, I was given the 4/25 shipment date as well. Guess what I'll be doing this weekend? :D

[Steve Sawyer]

Guess what I'll be doing this weekend?

Indeed. My best bud and I have arranged for him to pick me up early Saturday with his pickup and a low-boy trailer so we can go drag it home. Should have it back by mid-to-late morning and we can start unpacking and disassembling to get it all down the basement stairs into the shop.

I'm hoping I can get it reassembled, wired and fired up before I go to bed on Saturday night!! :)

[Paul Johnstone]

I really do not know what the fascination is with Woodcraft or Rockler..
I purchase most of my tools from Amazon..Usually with free shipping
and no tax...
I ordered the new 3hp exacta on Jan 15 from Amazon, it was delivered
on Jan 23...Sorry to hear that you are getting a run-around..

For example, I odered some blades from Amazon and for some reason,
the order got fouled up...To make it up to me they discounted the blades
20% and sent them OVN mail..You can bet Woodcraft or Rockler would
never do that..
I also had a altercation with Rockler over jointer they
listed in a flyer with free shipping which was only available at a local
store which would not include the free shipping.. Got it at Amazon with
the discount and free shipping..

Amazon has had me wait 3-4 months for things several times, despite it being "in stock". At least if you buy local, you can talk to someone local.
Not bashing Amazon, but they are really no better than anyone else in this regard. Personally, Amazon is no longer a vendor of choice for me, but I can see why others like them.

[Paul Johnstone]

Au Contraire.

Rockler last year had a special on Jet 10" handscrew .

I have a good Rockler story too. I ordered some knobs they had on closeout. Apparently, there was an inventory glitch and they could not fulfill my order. A human actually called me and politely explained the situation and helped me find suitable substitutes. Much better than what Amazon does.. which is to just send you an email every 2 weeks telling you that the order is delayed, but it will get to you eventually.

I ordered a book from Amazon once. Waited 6 months for it to get here, and it never did (canceled at that point). Just got a form email every 2 weeks.