lot of craftsmanship for $83..sheeesh

[Will Blick]

http://tinyurl.com/32spr2

Is it just me? Or does it seem quite remarkable that something like this can sell for $83 retail? I realize over seas labor rates are very low, but even so....this requires a lot of labor to assemble, even if the parts are cut CNC...finishing, packaging, shipping half way around the globe, retail mark-up, etc. etc.

more detailed pix at the link above


http://images.netshops.com/mgen/digimarc.ms?img=inuse:ML097.jpg&h=300&w=300

[Ben Cadotte]

I have seen something very very similar at W-mart during x-mas time for half that price. And to think they have to pay shipping and customs/duty on that stuff. And still sell it that cheap.

I have a coworker that used to have a bike shop. He told me he could buy kids bikes for $23 ( with just a min order of 3). W-mart would get the same for $16. Again that includes the cost of shipping and duty!

[David DeCristoforo]

"...does it seem quite remarkable that something like this can sell for $83 retail?"

Not when you are paying your help fifty cents a day.....

"...shipping half way around the globe..."

Just think about how many of these things you can pack into a container....

YM

[Will Blick]

Is fifty cents a day real? I was hearing numbers like fifty cents per hour.

this item is big enough, where shipping has to be a big part of the cost.... I think a container costs on avg $6k to bring in from the Orient.... I did not calc. the cubic size of these...

[John Skibo]

I am sure if you see it in person and touched it you would reword craftmanship to junk!!
They sell that crap at Walmart Target ect. from far away it looks good get up close and Junk.
I heard labor is $5-$6 a week, 80 hours, and that's not one of the illegal sweat shops with children

[David DeCristoforo]

"...if you see it in person and touched it you would reword craftmanship..."

A "foregone conclusion" if ever there was one.... Not to mention what it will look like a year from now. More than likely a heap of pieces in a cardboard box sitting out by the trash can....

YM

[john bateman]

Well, there were 32 reviews of it when I looked, and all but one liked it. Many thought it was very well made.

Just sayin'...

[glenn bradley]

I can only say that if I were supplying 2500 of these per week, I had better come up with a reasonable way to produce them (I made all that up). Even though we are talking about obviously "mass produced" pieces, I do see things that despite the quality, I would have trouble even buying the material for, let alone creating.

[Mike McCann]

I work for an ocean container carrier. the avg price for a 40' container from hong kong and shanghai to the west coast is only 2200 dollars. The average container holds 56 cubic meters.

[Brian Tuftee]

The first 'real' piece of furniture I ever made was a freestanding jewelry armoire for my wife. I saw one at J.C. Penny's I think, and the top hinged lid had gotten dented while on display, revealing it to be simply some kind of a painted lacquer finish on what appeared to be compressed cardboard! I'm still not sure what it was made out of, it didn't even look like MDF or particleboard. After seeing what it was made out of, I realized I could make something that looked just as nice, out of real wood, and it would withstand the test of time. Although the materials cost less than buying one from the store, I would probably have to pay myself about $.50/hr to make the labor cost effective...

I just looked up on a website that said it costs about $4,000 to ship a 40' container from China to the U.S., but that's the price charged by a freight forwarder for a single shipment. I'm sure Wal-mart gets a heckuva discount when they get a couple hundred (thousand?) a day. I bet they don't pay even half that. A 40' shipping container could probably hold close to 2,000 of those. Figure Wal-mart pays a buck or two per item to ship those from overseas.

[Thom Sturgill]

So if the box is about half a meter high and wide and third of a meter deep (.0825 cu meters) that works out 678 per container (let say 650) or to about $3.50 each for shipping?

[Will Blick]

I should have posted this with the OP


Constructed from solid wood
Finished with rich burlwood oak stain
Large interior mirror under the lid
Double hinged necklace side doors
Soft ivory fabric lining
I am not advocating this stuff, just amazed, thats all...

BTW, I think your number of 2k per container is close to accurate, I just checked the dimensions.... but, that is too the dock.... I bet it can cost another few thou to get it to your destination. But regardless, its less than I thought.

[Travis Gauger]

The company that I work for has operations in China. Xaimen to be exact. Our average Labor Cost before the china labor law reform was around $1.18 an hour. CLLR happened around november or december of '06. Our most recent (07' fiscal) labor cost is $4.87 per manhour. Big jump. Our asian divisions are also getting government pressure for unionization of labor forces. Specially in China. Our American and EU divisions are unionized and from a manufacturing standpoint, It is starting to make a lot more sense to manufacture at point of use, vs off shore. Our customers landed costs of product is starting to negate any cost benefits of manufacturing in China and we are seeing that work return to the states. With that said, it only means that there are going to be a bunch more chinese plants looking to keep chinese workers busy. They will find their niche and exploit it. I think it is going to be in goods that will be easily exported. Things that are not going to be regulated as heavily. Things like this jewelery box. My $.02 for what it's worth.

[Will Blick]

Interesting Travis.... the same is true for skilled machinist in China, many of their wages are about 6x today, what they were in the late 90's....demand for skilled workers creates a price war for the skilled talent, prices rise.

Your labor values put things in perspective. I hear many makers are leaving China for lower wages in India, Phillipines, etc. Truly remarkable how the world markets are working....

[Ben Cadotte]

So if the box is about half a meter high and wide and third of a meter deep (.0825 cu meters) that works out 678 per container (let say 650) or to about $3.50 each for shipping?

Those boxes are about 2/3 or smaller the size your quoting. I think they are more 12" high x 12" wide x 8" deep. I figure with double boxing close to 2,500 in a 40 container. Each one without box is approx .018877 m3. So I woudl say closer to a $1 each for shipping.

[Dan Barr]

Quote: "Well, there were 32 reviews of it when I looked, and all but one liked it. Many thought it was very well made.

Just sayin'..."

Not picking on you,

But those "people" dont know woodwork from a hole in the ground. Much less what type of glue is in there, what joinery methods (if any) are hidden in the piece, etc.

With all due respect, that "thing" shouldnt even be posted on this site. If anything, the maker has only made a "look-alike" or maybe something just beyond a "museum display".

Ciao,

dan

[Dan Barr]

I should have posted this with the OP

Constructed from solid wood
Finished with rich burlwood oak stain
Large interior mirror under the lid
Double hinged necklace side doors
Soft ivory fabric liningI am not advocating this stuff, just amazed, thats all...

BTW, I think your number of 2k per container is close to accurate, I just checked the dimensions.... but, that is too the dock.... I bet it can cost another few thou to get it to your destination. But regardless, its less than I thought.



Will, dont take this the least bit personally. I'm just ranting about what gets done to make things cheaper than "dirt cheap".

As for its features:

solid wood: obviously denotes that this thing is made of particle board or the cheapest wood out there. Why dont they specify the species of wood? I didnt know particle board grew in the wild. :D hey, its all wood pieces and since the entire jewelry box is made of wood chips, its solid wood! Eureka! Yay!!! thats their rationale.

burlwood oak stain: programmed painting machine that literally puts the grain pattern on the particle board in the form of paint. just like your printer connected to your computer. They call it stain because "burlwood oak printed paint pattern" might just give it away. :D

Large interior mirror: So what! I am humbled by your generosity.

Double hinged necklace side doors: Again, So what! They must want a cookie because they were generous enough, once again, not to go with one hinge per door!?!?!? save another penny huh. but, saving a penny in that country is possibly 2-4% of the production cost.

Soft ivory fabric lining: OOOhhhhhhh. Just another chance to throw a few more soothing adjectives towards you. "soft" and "ivory". Oh, but we forgot about the word "fabric". WHAT!!! That's not velvet. not REALLY velvet. its just fabric with some sort of hairy surface. Well, we saved another penny here. Otherwise we would have had to cut that second hinge out of the design. :D:D:D

LOL

Dan

[David DeCristoforo]

"...joinery methods..."

Joinery??? What Joinery?

Dan Barr: Thanks for that. You took the words right out of my mouth. I will be laughing all weekend!

YM

[Dan Barr]

Youre welcomed,

I'm laughing too.

Ciao,

Dan

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I'd have to see one in person to pass judgement on it. But if all but one of the people who reviewed it liked it.......the customer may not always be right, but the customer is always -- you know. It may be junk or it may not be junk but it sold.

I sold in a craft mall for several years and occasionally helped out. Some of the stuff that was brought to the front that the customer thought was "so cute". Thrown together by people to make a quick buck (not imported) and I had to just bite my tongue and wish them a nice day unless it was the very rare occasion when I was asked my opinion.

[Dan Barr]

Wait til everything is out-sourced to your country and then pass laws to up the minimum wage.

Hmm....

sounds shady to me. who's actually keeping the money and in what percentages? what does the actual worker receive?

ciao,

dan

[Matt Schell]

Thanks for starting the thread, I often look at the "wood" items and "furniture" at these cheap retail stores and try to figure out what they would need to do to produce the products and sell them at low prices and still make a profit.

Usually you don't even need to look very closely to see the very low quality of the materials being used, the complete lack of any kind of joinery beyond a butt joint reinforced with a screw or nail. Also pieces are usually out of allignment with unsightly gaps (very poor fit and finish)

I would imagine as these plants refine their processes and upgrade their toolings eventually they probably could manufacture one specific item cheaply and relatively well.

I am sure that next to a finely crafted dovetailed jewelry box built with real lumber these other pieces would really look terrible the trouble is everything else in these stores is cheap so it all blends in.

[Tom Veatch]

Those boxes are about 2/3 or smaller the size your quoting. I think they are more 12" high x 12" wide x 8" deep. I figure with double boxing close to 2,500 in a 40 container. Each one without box is approx .018877 m3. So I woudl say closer to a $1 each for shipping.

Per the link: 14 L x 7.5 W x 11.5 H Inches

Rounding up for packaging:
16x9x13 = 1872 cu.in. = 0.030676 cu meter

Assuming 90% container packing efficiency:
.9 x 56/.030676 = 1643/container

[Bob Opsitos]

It is starting to make a lot more sense to manufacture at point of use, vs off shore. Our customers landed costs of product is starting to negate any cost benefits of manufacturing in China and we are seeing that work return to the states.

Travis I've recently been hearing the same thing. With the RNB climbing relative to the dollar and shipping/inventory costs (hey you own that shipment while it spends several weeks at sea) there has been talk of things being moved back to mexico (so it can better serve the Latin American market). Also doesn't help that Mexico slaps a health charge on items that say "made in china".

The tide will turn just in time for the US to be the low cost labor force once the our crap economy crushes the middle class.

To the OP, the really distrubing thing is that all those people who bought it are happy and consider it "good quality". It's made for people who want the illusion of quality and quantity. You can't fault the makers and sellers for catering to "our" society's embrace of the impermanent.

Who's next on the soap box?
Bob

Bob