Attaching Face Frames to Carcass - Alignment

[Jeff Wright]

On the current Yankee Workshop, Norm is showing how to build kitchen cabinets. He uses biscuits to align his face frame onto the carcass. Assuming the face frame stiles overlap the front edge of the carcass on the outside by a slight amount (to allow scribing where needed), and overlap the inside edge a tad, how would you cut biscuit holes on both the carcass edge and back side of the face frame and have them align perfectly?

[Lee Koepke]

On the current Yankee Workshop, Norm is showing how to build kitchen cabinets. He uses biscuits to align his face frame onto the carcass. Assuming the face frame stiles overlap the front edge of the carcass on the outside by a slight amount (to allow scribing where needed), and overlap the inside edge a tad, how would you cut biscuit holes on both the carcass edge and back side of the face frame and have them align perfectly?
He slots the entire carcass that makes the layout critical only on the face frame.

I would imagine he lays out the offset when he cuts the biscuit on the frame. We discussed this a few weeks ago....i think

[Grant Morris]

Well, that depends on how square the boxes are. If they are perfectly square you could use measurements with the appropriate offsets. If the boxes are not quite square and measuring would be uncomfortable, clamp the face frame to the box temporarily (in the correct finished alignment) and make a pencil mark down the back sides of the face frame stiles where they meet the box edge etc, and reference your biscuits off of those pencil lines...

[Chris Padilla]

Just clamp a straight-edge (wood, metal, whatever) along the length of the face frame to register the biscuit cutter against. That solves one dimension.

The other direction is a matter of marking things correctly and lining up the marks. You can be off a wee bit with a biscuit.

[Mark Engel]

You can be off a wee bit with a biscuit.
But the gravy has to be perfect! :D

[Joe Chritz]

I have experimented a couple different times and different ways to use biscuits but I generally always fall back on just clamping or using pocket screws.

One way that did work ok was to run a narrow dado in the face frame stiles full length and then biscuit the case sides. This involved pre measuring and two passes at the saw so it turned out to be a bit more time consuming than I wanted to do.

I may go back to them again and use a jig to hold the stile upright and index off the bench.

Joe

[Norm Roberts]

It may be a little late to use this technique, but for future thought. A professional cabinet/custom furniture maker taught me to assemble cabinets a little differently. He said assemble the face frame first and make certain it is square and you will be assured the cabinet is square. Before assembling the face frame, cut a dado (1/4 to 3/8 inch wide, half the depth of the face frame) the full length of each style. Assemble the face frame. Next cut a tongue on the edge of each of your side panels. Before assembling them to the face frame, cut a dado on the inside of each side panel, top and bottom to receive the top and bottom panels. The bottom panel should align with the top of the bottom rail and the top panel would be inset down from the top of the cabinet an inch or so. Glue it all together. I take a short cut at this point and shoot a couple of pocket hole screws into the face frame from the top and bottom panels. Drill from underneath on the bottom and assuming no one will see the top of your cabinet/bookcase, screw into the face frame from the top of the top panel.
Hope that was clear??? I can attest to the process, it is rock solid and produces a great result, not to mention structurally solid. Have used it to make a number of units.

PS I started out making the boxes and attaching the face frame to them. Will never go back to this method.

[Jeff Wright]

It may be a little late to use this technique, but for future thought. A professional cabinet/custom furniture maker taught me to assemble cabinets a little differently. He said assemble the face frame first and make certain it is square and you will be assured the cabinet is square.

Norm, makes sense. Your approach is similar to the Sommerfeld offset tongue and groove method that has you first make the face frame and then attach the carcass panels using routed tongue and grooves. I have used that method in the past and was satisfied, but Norm of NYW caught my interest with the biscuit approach.

[Steve Kohn]

I think I have a pretty simple way to guarantee alignment with biscuits. It is not very fast, but I find I can get perfect alignment.

I start with the sides of the carcass. I decide what is going to be the reference edge on one side of the carcass. Lay on the matching piece of the face frame, mark, and then biscuit the faceframe piece and that side of the carcass from the previously selected reference edge.

Then do the same thing with the adjacent side of the face frame. Dry fit both sides with the biscuits and clamp in place. You now have the fitted face frames clamped to the carcass.

Then simply cut the top and bottom face frame pieces to fit, mark and biscuit using the method above.

Take it all down, and glue and pocket screw it together. Let the glue dry and then glue the now complete face frame to the carcass.

[Karl Brogger]

I don't biscuit anything, I've never cared for the tool.

If you use stretchers: I assemble the partitions and ends then measure out all my openings to match the bottom. I use stretchers that run the length of my top and bottom so its pretty easy. If both ends of the box are unfinished then I just use a spacer to get my overlap, the box twists itself into shape after one end is secure and I flush out the top of the remaining partitions or end. What's isn't square after that gets pulled into place by the back. The only reason I use stretchers is that it makes alignment an absolute no brainer.

[Terry Wawro]

I use biscuits. I like my face frame to overhang the cabinet about 1/16 to 1/8 so I build it slightly larger. Here is what I do. Lay the face frame over the cabinet, mark the biscuit locations on both being careful to use the inside as a reference point. (I you use the outside, you will be off about 1/16th.) Now I cut the slots in the cabinet, makeing a couple of plunges to make the slot a little longer ,not wider, that normal. This gives me a little fudge room if needed. Cut the slots on the face frame. Biscuits, glue, tweet and clamp it up.

[glenn bradley]

Most "how to's" I've seen just use a spacer block to mimic the offset required.

[Jeff Wright]

Most "how to's" I've seen just use a spacer block to mimic the offset required.

Can you explain how you use a spacer? Keep in mind the face frame stile and rails overlap the inside edge of the carcass sides. Would you use one spacer for the inside edges of the rails and stiles and a different one for the edges of the carcass edges so that when the slots are cut they align?

[Doug Rogers]

I like the Sommerfeld method which uses the tounge and grove to attach the face frames. This is practically goof proof. The matched bit set also allows you to align the face frame so it is flush with the sides or you can have frame hang over so you can scribe the frame.

Doug Rogers