Opportunity to get a Felder 531 jointer/planer

[Jim Barstow]

I've got the opportunity to get a Felder 531 jointer/planer at a discount. It includes the 4 knife cutter head. A helical head isn't available but Felder claims that the results from their head is better than a helical head provided you don't try to hog off a lot of material. (I currently have an Inca planer and I find that patience goes a long way towards limiting tearout.)

The alternative I'm considering is separates, both from the ultimate series from grizzly, the G9860ZX 12" Z Series Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead (http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Z-Series-Jointer-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G9860ZX)and G1021X2 Extreme Series 15" Planer w/ Spiral Cutterhead (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Extreme-Series-15-Planer-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G1021X2)

The felder would be cheaper than the total of the separates, higher quality, but no helical head.

Comments?

[Mike Spanbauer]

I'd go w/ the Felder if you can get it for a good price. I'm a helical head fan, but the Felder is a superbly constructed machine. However, the question I have for you is whether you need the space?

The changeover is frustrating for some who feel that separates is the only way to go. I'm a one man shop, so I don't really care and the space is a bigger benefit to me. I do not have a combo yet, but do plan on one in the future.

michael

[Jim Barstow]

Extra space is nice (who knows what machine I'll need in the future) but I do have room for separates. I also have the fallback that if I get tired of the conversion, I still have space for a separate planer while I keep the felder as a really nice jointer.

[Rob Russell]

Changeover between the jointer and planer isn't as big a deal as many folks make of it. The biggest thing is raising/lowering the planer bed so you can flip over the dust/chute chute. Some Felder owners have rigged up cordless hand drills to speed up the process. My j/p has the electronic raise/lower, so I can just hit a button :rolleyes:.

[Brad Shipton]

The felders are worth it. If you want a helix you can get it. Either take out the head and have a machinst measure or make a request to felder for the specs. They will send you and the manuf a confidentially release form to sign before they give you anything, but after that they will provide the specs for you to use for your machine. Byrd will build one to those exact specs. I started the process with mine, but in the end I decided against. That head is approaching 1/2 way to the cost of a 15" open end wide belt, which is far more useful. My J/P is a 3 knife 310 Hammer and I do have problems with difficult woods (jatoba being one), but I am not convinced any will deliver produce much better. Changeover from Jointer to planer takes less than two minutes, about 90 spins of the handle, piece of cake. A nuisance sometimes, but if space is at a premium not too much choice.

Brad

[Joe Jensen]

I"ll post the counter view as usual :D

Look closely at your workfow, and your space situation.

On workflow, I surface and true boards as I need them. I never surface the entire length and width of a board as I find I end up having to remove too much thickness to get it truely flat (as in the board face has zero wobble on a flat bench top). I cut rough stock to rough length and width and then face joint one surface, plane to final width, and then joint an edge. I do this a few boards at a time as I need them. If I had a 2 minute change over with 90 cranks I end up doing all the surfacing and then the jointing. I should also mention that I don't work from plans. I design as I go and alter dimensions as the boards allow, or the mistakes :mad:

On space, My 8" jointer sits along a wall beside the one car parking space left in my garage. It doesn't really take any space as I can pull the car into the space with the mirror just missing the jointer. My planer moves in and out of a small space beside my shaper and saw. If I had a combo machine, it would either sit on the wall where the my jointer sits ( but it would take. much more space) or I'd have re-layout my shop.

Summary, I'd have strongly recommend examining your workflow, and also the floor plan of your shop. Cheers...joe

[Scot Ferraro]

You will not be disappointmented with the Felder J/P. I have a Hammer A331 and it is awesome -- it joints so flat that there is some strong suction between the board and the tables. The knives are the quick change type and you can scew most boards if it is difficult grain. I would recommend getting the digital handwheel gauge so that you can dial in precise depths on the planer that are repeatable -- nice if you have to jumpt back and forth between functions. I can also get down to 1/8 inch with no problem -- some folks keep a small planer or lunchbox for thinner stock but I was pleased with the results I got with my unit.

Good luck.

Scot

[Jim Becker]

A Euro J/P from Felder or others makes for a darn good machine, especially if you can get a deal. I'd not give up my MM, for sure...

[Bernhard Lampert]

I'd go with the Felder. But then again, I am biased (I have Felder equipment). I like their equipment: quality, design, best cost-to-value ration.
I have the combo and change-over is not a big deal. It takes about 25 sec: Loosening 2 levers, flip up the hinged table (spring assisted), flip dust chute. Now, IF I had more space and money, I would get separate machines.

Cheers,
Bernhard

[Gary Herrmann]

I've got separate, but for a discount, I'd go Felder, if I could get it down the stairs.

[Ben Abate]

Hello,
I have had my share of jointers and planers and I would buy my Felder again. I have the 20" model (751) I got what I was told to be the last one before they went to the (951). One thing nice about the Felders are that if you need to extend the length of the jointer table you can add on the cast iron extenions, you can straighten some pretty long boards if need be. The change over is nothing. It is really no inconvenience. I've never had a spiral head so I can't give an honest opinion on that subject. I can tell you if your machine has the ability to select speeds as mine does you can get some pretty good results. I've had mine for about 4 years now and it has been the best jointer or planer I've owned.

One other thing, the FOG group (Felder Owners Group) is a great bunch of guys that can answer any questions or problems that might come up with any thing about the machine or woodworking. It's a yahoo group.

my .02

good luck
Ben

By the way how are doing Bernhard? Good to hear from you.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Felder. It's worth the trouble to have the substantially better quality. Better in every way better bearings, machining tolerances, housings, materials, motor it's just a lot better.

I do like Griz paint tho.

[Brad Shipton]

Ben, I wish I could adjust the feed speed on mine. You have to get to the 951 before variable speed option is available. The 700's offer two speeds, 18/40fpm and all the models below are 18fpm only. Sure could use the lower speed sometimes.

Brad

[Paul B. Cresti]

Jim,
The only real reason to go for a j/p is space savings and money savings. In theory if you plan on purchasing what is "considered" a high quality jointer and planer you will spend more then a j/p combo. I have owned separate jointers and planers (had a 6" jointer & 12" lunchbox then a 8" jointer and 14" planer) and now a 16" j/p with mortiser attachment. My main reason for switching was I wanted a much larger jointer and the good ones were expensive....I sold my jointer and got my j/p and held onto my planer as I was not sure about this combo thing. After using the j/p I realized just how good it was and sold off my planer too.

If I had the space and the money I would most definately go for a separates though since they are always set up. I am not complaining that my j/p does not work well because it does especially with the fact that it is my horizontal mortiser too. One of the most important features with my j/p is the Tersa head...in my opinion if that 531 does not have it I would not bother. I have no experience with the Byrd or Grizzly spiral head to give you my opinion on it...I do have a Byrd head for my shaper but funny thing is I have never used it...

[Rob Russell]

Paul,

You basically spelled out one of the other reasons that a combo j/p makes sense - you're getting a much wider jointer than people typically have.

Rob

[John Hain]

Jim,
The only real reason to go for a j/p is space savings and money savings. In theory if you plan on purchasing what is "considered" a high quality jointer and planer you will spend more then a j/p combo. I have owned separate jointers and planers (had a 6" jointer & 12" lunchbox then a 8" jointer and 14" planer) and now a 16" j/p with mortiser attachment. My main reason for switching was I wanted a much larger jointer and the good ones were expensive....I sold my jointer and got my j/p and held onto my planer as I was not sure about this combo thing. After using the j/p I realized just how good it was and sold off my planer too.

If I had the space and the money I would most definately go for a separates though since they are always set up. I am not complaining that my j/p does not work well because it does especially with the fact that it is my horizontal mortiser too. One of the most important features with my j/p is the Tersa head...in my opinion if that 531 does not have it I would not bother. I have no experience with the Byrd or Grizzly spiral head to give you my opinion on it...I do have a Byrd head for my shaper but funny thing is I have never used it...

For those who have Felder J/Ps, what type of cutterblock are you running? Last I remember, Felder was offering a 4 knife FELDER system or a 4 knife standard system or a 3 knife Tersa (and they charge you extra for the Tersa). I haven't heard much any info regarding the FELDER 4 knife system. Seems everyone is getting the Tersa.

Jim, do you know what system is on that J/P?

[Mark Singer]

I have a 16" MiniMax TechnoMax and it is a great machine! I would get the Felder. Changing from joite to planer is a snap!

[Scot Ferraro]

John,

My Hammer has a three knife and the Felders come with either 2 knife or 4 knife with a 6 knife option on the high-end Format 4 series. They are all quick change and self-setting and it literally takes a couple of minutes to change them over. The Tersa is a nice option too but I am not sure if it is worth the extra cost or not since the Felder knife system is so easy.

[Brad Shipton]

The only real advantage to the Tersa is being able to buy knives from alternate sources. The Felders are proprietary so you get to buy theirs. If you go to Tersa's there are many different manufacturers offering more steel options and grinding options. I have a three blade Hammer style and it works good for most woods. The diameter of the head is larger on the higher end machines and I understand this helps with some woods. I would go with the 4knife felder over the Tersa if you envision working with any difficult woods since you cannot alter the feed speed on the Felder 531.

[Ben Abate]

Hi fellows,

I have to agree with Brad and some of the others here. The 4 knife cutter heads are in my opinion very good. Every thing he said about the Tersa is also true and that's not a bad thing. It's just more money in the begining. If you don't have the option this time don't worry about it.

One thing about having a large Jointer is that you can joint wider boards. Have you tried it lately, the wider the board the harder it is to joint them. Imagine a 12-16 inch board 10 ft long. Trying to get a good finish on them is hard. You usually have to stop and re-grip the board in order not to get knife marks or what ever on the surface. And I know you fellows will tell me that you are only leveling the board to run thru the planer and your right. But I'm a bit of nut about doing the best I can if possible. One thing you won't see on Delta DJ 20 or something in that area of size is a power feeder. But take a Felder or Mini Max or any of the larger Jointers and a lot of times you'll see one mounted on it. I have and I wouldn't go back to hand feeding wider boards. I have it so it swings out of the way for most edge and less wide boards but take a piece of 12 inch wide hard maple that is 2 inches thick and throw it up there and watch it go. It's a beautiful thing, it's like you want to make into a piece of 4/4. It's really fun to let the power feeder go to work. So that's now and option for you.

[Brad Shipton]

The power feeder on the jointer is great. Here is pic of the wall mount version I built. It works great since the machine is heavy enough that it does not roll. The mount is heavy, but if the feeder flexes any it does not feed correctlly. I learned that the hard way as I built the first one out of wood.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/DSC01309-sm.jpg

[Todd Bin]

Hello Jim, I recently purchased the AD531 from Felder. It is a fantastic piece of equipment. I promised a reivew on here but have not had the time for such formality. Mine has the 4 knife felder cutter head and the digital planer gauge. It arrives extremely well packaged and set-up is pretty easy with an extra set of hands. When I ran my first board through the jointer I was shocked by four things.

1. How utterly smooth running and effortless the Felder is.
2. That the board was basically suctioned to the outfeed table because it was soo smooth
3. How smooth the board was with just one pass
4. There was no snipe (set up right, right out of the crate)

Felder Customer support has been good. They have always answered the phone and answered all of my dumb questions.

Different people have different opinions regarding the mobility kit. Some like installing casters and some (like me) like the mobility kit. It was pretty straight forward to install. Just remove the back panel to get the bolts in.

Hope this helps and feel free to PM mee if you have specific questions or if you live in the Dallas area and want to see it.