Motor too small for wood

[Duane Broussard]

Hello all,
I'm new to the forum (and a bit new to turning) and I have a question. I recently purchased a 12x36 wood lathe from Harbor Freight (the 34706 model). It has a 3/4" motor with 10 speed settings. My problem is that I am trying to spin an 8"x8"x30" piece and its burning the poor motor up. The specs are: 3/4 HP, 120V, 60Hz, 1700RPM (no load). The variable speeds are 600-2400RPM. I was using an older lathe that was 115/220 (ran as 220) and it seemed to be strong enough but it ran at only one speed...FAST. My question is - What size motor do I need on my current lathe to be strong enough to handle 8x8x30? Is there a chart out there to go by based on your wood size? Will a 1.5 HP be enough? Or do I need to go to a 3 HP? It appears that the current HP cannot handle this weight at low speed without burnning it up. I am assuming that I should stay with the 110/120v setup rather than going to 220. Yes?...No?... Any help would be greatly appreciated here.
Thanks in advance,
Duane

[Paul Engle]

Duane welcome to the creek, and you may have a defective motor. or .... at low speed ( spindle) and max rpm ( motor ) it should spin with out burning it up ..... is the wood wet? how much does it weigh? if its 40 lbs you're in trouble as 3/4 hp would be breathing pretty hard, if it is 10 lbs it should spin with out fryin the mtr. if you can check how may amps it is trying to draw that may help decide if it is defective or just too much weight to turn. I have turned up to 18 lbs ( total weight on spindle .. chuck +blank ) on 3/4 hp new with out problem.Other may chime in with expamples of what they did which may help you figure out if the 8x8x30 at ? lbs is too much ...good luck and a call to HF may shed some light (?).

[Rick Huelsbeck]

Welcome to the vortex and the creek. First off you don't have enough to run a 30" round piece of wood. You have a lathe similar to my Jet 1236 and it's rated at no more than a 16.5" piece of wood outboard. Not to knock your lathe but the Jet is built a whole lot better than the HF is. If you want to turn something like that I would buy a Powermatic 3520b at the least. Cut that piece of wood down, on that lathe you would be a lot safer. Besides as far as I've ever seen you won't get anything bigger than a 2 HP the runs on 110 VAC.

[David Walser]

Welcome to the vortex and the creek. First off you don't have enough to run a 30" round piece of wood. You have a lathe similar to my Jet 1236 and it's rated at no more than a 16.5" piece of wood outboard. Not to knock your lathe but the Jet is built a whole lot better than the HF is. If you want to turn something like that I would buy a Powermatic 3520b at the least. Cut that piece of wood down, on that lathe you would be a lot safer. Besides as far as I've ever seen you won't get anything bigger than a 2 HP the runs on 110 VAC.

Rick, I think he's talking about a large spindle 8"x8" by 30" long. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but that's the way I read his original question. Your Jet, and his HF, should be able to handle such a spindle just fine.

[Jim Underwood]

An 8 x 8 spindle 30 inches long is still pretty big. But the motor should handle that just fine - depending on how you are cutting the wood that is.

Is the wood green?

Are you using a cutting tool or a scraping tool?

Are the tools sharp?


If you are using a dull scraper on a dry piece of persimmon*, that would probably be too much to ask of this lathe.

*and bogging the motor down....

[Duane Broussard]

You guys can talk it up all you'd like. Looks like you're gonna teach me alot already. I really appreciate this help.. you just don't know. The wood is dry, and it is square, where I am attempting to round it in only certain places. Each 8x8 will be table legs for a spanish style table I am trying to build. Two sections of the leg will remain square at 8"x8", while the smallest area will round down to 5". If I had to guess, this stock of wood starts off at about 40lbs. Since it was being cut just fine on the "old" lathe I was using (220v/ 3/4 HP), I assumed that going with another lathe at 3/4 HP would be fine. Even though it was 110v and not 220v. I agree that the JET is a much better lathe. Just trying to keep from spending the extra money. With this new lathe, starting the spin at the lowest gear would not even roll the wood. It would just hum until I gave it a shove. That told me that I must not have a powerful enough motor to spin this size/weight wood at the lowest speed without burning it up. The motor got extremely hot, and I am assuming it is toast. Thus, the reason I am looking to increase the motor size. What do you guys think??

[Rick Huelsbeck]

Rick, I think he's talking about a large spindle 8"x8" by 30" long. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but that's the way I read his original question. Your Jet, and his HF, should be able to handle such a spindle just fine.

I mostly do bowls so I tend to think everyone is trying to do a bowl:o

[Jim Underwood]

If it wouldn't even spin up, then you probably have a motor problem.

It could be a bad start capacitor if it has one. That's a common fault.

[Duane Broussard]

Hope you guys can bear with me while I get use to running around on this forum... what buttons to click and so forth...
By the way, is it possible that this 3/4HP motor is just plain 'ol cheap and replacing it with a top notch motor do the job? Or do I really need to just go with more HP? And what about voltage... what's the real difference in 110 to 220 when it comes to power (torque/strength)... or is there really a difference? The motor doesn't really have a probelm at all spinning this size wood at higher speeds. It's the really slow speeds (like the bottom 3 speeds)... one of the speeds I need to run at, that seem to be too much for the motor.

[David Walser]

...By the way, is it possible that this 3/4HP motor is just plain 'ol cheap and replacing it with a top notch motor do the job? Or do I really need to just go with more HP? And what about voltage... what's the real difference in 110 to 220 when it comes to power (torque/strength)... or is there really a difference? The motor doesn't really have a probelm at all spinning this size wood at higher speeds. It's the really slow speeds (like the bottom 3 speeds)... one of the speeds I need to run at, that seem to be too much for the motor.

Let me try to address each of your questions:

The HF motor is advertised as 3/4HP, but it's really more like 1/2HP. You can replace the motor with a better one, but I don't think that's your problem (as discussed below). I've seen some really nice upgrades of the HF lathe on the internet. IIRC, someone replaced the Reeves drive and put a 3HP motor on his lathe. Way cool! In much the same way putting a 350 Chevy V8 in a '68 VW bug would be way cool and over kill all at the same time.
You can get 1HP+ on 110 volts, you just need to increase the amperage. That may require running a dedicated 110 outlet (with a 15 or 20 amp breaker). If you're going to do that, it might make more sense to run a 220 volt outlet (using half the amperage).
If the motor is able to spin the blank at the higher speeds, but not at the three lowest speeds, I think your drive is the problem. It sounds like it needs adjusting. It should be easier for the lathe to spin the blank up to speed in the lower "gears".
What speed are you trying to turn the blank at? For an 8" blank, one that's balanced and sound, you should be turning at a speed in the range of 750 rpm to 1,125 rpm.Hope this helps.

[Duane Broussard]

David,
I'm sure some of my problem is amp drop as I do have other things (though they are minor) drawing from the same breaker. The motor spins up on all speeds accept the first one (lowest), which I think is 600 rpm. It was when I was running the lathe (while cutting with a gouge) at around 750rpm that it suddenly began to slow down and I noticed the smell. I'm hoping to find the right answer the first time. I'd hate to buy another 3/4HP only for the same thing to happen. However, one doesn't know until you do the "process of elimination" sometimes. If going straight to say a 2 HP motor would solve all my problems, THAT would be way cool for me. And when you say "drive" what do you mean?.... you mean the variable speed handle?
I was also wondering about motor size (diminsion). Sure hope I can find something that would mount back on the same way. The fan side of the motor almost hits the wood as it is.

[Paul Engle]

Duane, it sounds like the motor is at fault, funny smells are insulation getting hot, at 750 rpm on the spindle and 1700 on the motor , the torque should pull that log with no problem. I suggest you call HF and tell em what is happening. If they do no offer a solution and you want to keep the HF lathe , go get a bigger AC motor of reputable manufacture and try it. 3/4 ac for less than 150$ is cheaper than another lathe. and if you are worried about hp , get a 1 hp with the same mount . but if the hf is made the same way the jet is you will not be able to find one except from jet / HF as the mount / front plate is all one unit with a special shaft for the Variable speed ( pulley) drive they use.

[Jim Underwood]

I would suggest looking at the Reeves drive at the low speed setting. The belt could be slipping or something.

A problem with the Reeves drive on mine was what did it in. The pulleys were not in alignment, so the belt wore, and the frayed edge tipped me off by hitting the guard (whap whap whap). When I tried to adjust the pulley position the pot metal broke into a lot of pieces. I've just left it like that.... and bought a Jet Mini.

Anyone want some HF parts?

[Duane Broussard]

Paul,
I believe I could bring this lathe back to HF and they'll replace the whole thing. I've only had it for 3 days. I could try the new one out just in case I happened to get a defective one to begin with. If I do that, are you telling me that I could order a JET 3/4HP motor to replace it and it will fit exactly the same? If so, do you have a link or a retailer that sales the motors seperately? And you are right, I did notice that the mount is part of the motor housing (as one piece). And I assume that the shaft is longer than the usual motor shaft?? Wonder if they make a 1HP the same size?

[Duane Broussard]

Jim... I've opened the housing and the pulleys seem to be lined up straight. I did have a problem at first though where the variable speed would not change. It was stuck on about 1300rpm. I'd noticed after I took the housing off (just to see how it operates), that the belt was not free-sliding when the pulley would contract (when adjusting the speed knob).
I just feel that this motor should not have experienced this much failure this early without it either being defective, or just not enough power. And comments?

[David Wilhelm]

Duane. I had one, then a buddy had one. I coudl tell you all the bad things and go on and on and on. I've made a few post about them on here and I'm sure some of them out there had one or 20 of them and they did just fine. The motors can be orderd and are around 50 bucks if you don't have the store repair plane. but if it was me I'd return it now get a full refund and go buy something with some backbone and something you'll be happy with for a long time. Jet 1220 with a bed extention or a a few more buck and the same type but much bigger and nicer as what you have is the jet 1442. on up is the 1642VS. I had enough money tied up in my HF lath to have paid for a jet 1220 trust me get out while you can. IMHO

[Duane Broussard]

David,
You may right. I suppose I was trying to get something of the bare minimum that would do the job. I don't turn a whole heck of a lot. So I assumed a lathe at this level would provide what I needed with what little I'd need it for. No doubt, you get what you pay for.
You say the JET 1220? It comes with an extension?? I need at least 30" from center to center. Comfortably 36" is even better. Not sure if I can afford the 1442 just yet, but no doubt, I need SOMETHING to get my job done.
Thnaks for the advise

[Mike Henderson]

If you otherwise like the HF, take your lathe back and take your piece of wood with you. Before you take the new lathe, put the wood in it and spin it up at the store. If it doesn't work, don't take it - get your money back. If they won't let you spin it up at the store, get your money back.

If it works at the store and not at home, start looking at your electrical system.

Mike

[John Fricke]

HF should certainly replace a 3 day old defective product. If it were me......I'd get my money back and buy a Jet. HF cost + cost of a new motor is going to get you close to the price of a Jet. I would not buy a motor to put in that lathe. In my experience China motors have tendency to be ok or junk from the get-go. If you don't want to shell out the $ for a Jet. I would demand a total replacement from HF. It may last a very long time........or not. if it again fails, you need bigger-better equipment. MY $1.298 worth (won't even buy you a soda these days)

[David Wilhelm]

Duane, the 1220 is a mini. it's 3/4 hp and the head does not tilt. You have to move the belt to change the speeds and it's not all that hard to do. Retails in the 320.00 area. The jet 1236 is a mid size lath it's the lathe your HF is a copy of and it retails around 600 or so. I think in the link I'm leaving it tells that the 1220 bed extension will give you aroudn 50 inches. you'll need a table, bench or the legs stands as this lathe is a smaller one as you'll see in the link. ask the folks here it's a work horse. I've seen used one going to 250 and up but they dont' last long, There is also a delta version midi on CL ( i think) in the Charlotte NC area. Hope this helps

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/jet1220rvu.html

[Duane Broussard]

Well.. back in the shop today and this HF just trips my breaker now. Nothing else on the circuit. I think the motor is definately gone. I am hauling it back to HF today for a refund. I suppose my next move is to purchase one that will get my job done. An 8"x8"x30" is probably the largest piece of wood I will turn. So do all you guys agree that a 3/4 HP motor will do the job? I mean, on the right equipment... like a JET 1220 or 1236?? I'd sure jate to burn up another motor.
David.... I'm going to look into the JET suggestions you've provided. Thanks to you all!

[Jerry Allen]

Duane,
I'd take it back. You should be able to find a used Jet 1236 for $300 or less. It is possible you got a lemmon, but generally HF pwoer tool quality is about the worst. (Not that I have not ever had bought one, but the couple remaining have had considerable modifications done to them and I would have done better to start with better machines)
A Grizzly G0462, rated as 2HP but probably more like 1 1/2HP, is about $400 and goes on sale from time to time. Motor HP and amperage ratings are often overrated to make the sale.
I am assuming you don't want to spend $1K. Finding a replacement motor for the HF and still using the Reeves will not be cheap or easy. The motor's shaft is very long and is not common, as well as the special mount.
Are you sure the belt is not slipping? Is the smell rubber or electrical? Giving the blank a little push starting up might help. It might be slipping overcoming the inertia.
I have used a PowerTwist 3L (3/8") on my old Jet 1236. It does not slip or get chewed up as quickly. My new Jet 1442 still has the stock belt and does not slip and has not been chewed up, but when it wears out, I will probably switch to a Power Twist belt.

[Duane Broussard]

Jerry, good info there... thanks. The HF will be returned for refund today. The smell was definately electrical. I am trying to figure out now what would be the most dependable and strong enough machine to handle spinning up my 8"x8"x30" (square) stock without bogging down at low speeds (around 750-900rpm). Most all the machines advised to me here on the forum are 3/4 HP. I suppose I'd just need to know that this size motor can handle this wood size. Any suggestions?? Also, is there a particular retail store out there who sale Grizzly. And what retailer sales JET. I know Woodcraft does. I don't mean to sound cheap, but paying shipping on the weight of these things... nope.... I'll go pick it up if I can find it at the store.

[David Wilhelm]

Duane I don't know where you live but there are several retailers that offer FREE shipping to commercial addresses and perhaps home. you'll save sales tax perhaps as well. Jet may also be offering rebates. I think they have or had a $100.00 on the 1642 or 1442. and by the way i just was the 1442 on sale in a search in the 700s it's 400+ lbs. Ebay has these lathes as well just know who you deal with. If i can help you more Email me I'll be at Church later tonight but i'll get back to you soon as I can. I'll be glad to help you search a deal in your area .........Will

[Duane Broussard]

David, I just emailed you directly. Please check it out.
The HF that I have been speaking of is back in Harbor Freight's hands. May it rest in peace. NOW WHAT? I'm been turned on by this Grizzly G0462 lathe. It looks good, but so did the HF when I read about it. Only difference is that I've heard alot of good about Grizzly products at great prices. Anyone care to shed some light on the G0462? is it really a 2HP? I have a Hatachi table saw with a 3HP and its 110vac. Is it really 3HP? Yhis Grizzly sounds like a great deal. But what do I know. Help guys!
Duane

[Duane Broussard]

David... I meant to tell you.... that JET 1442 may be my ticket if its on sale somewhere for $700.00. Not looking to spend even that much, but if I come to a point that I have no choice, what can ya do? I need a good one to spin those 8x8x30. Oh.. by the way. Is there a certain amount of pressure you're suppose to put on the wood when driving the spindles together? Would that cause the motor to slow? I wouldn't think so with the bearing type.

[GLENN THOMAS]

I have the same harborfreight lathe you have and had a similiar issue. Turned out to be the centrifical switch. The butterfly on the shaft came loose, slid up the shaft, where it couldnt contact the switch. I repositioned it where I thought it should be and tightened it down really tight. It took less than five min to fix and I never had a problem with it since.

[Russ Peters]

Not sure if they are or not right now but sometimes amazon has free shipping on lathes

[Duane Broussard]

Glenn... thanks alot, but I took that lathe back to HF yesterday. Looking for another option.

[jacques nolin]

did you check the temperature rise on the namaplate ? some motors will run hot with no problem check the current draw also

[Duane Broussard]

Jacques... this motor won't run hot or cold anymore. Its dead. The machine has been returned to HF.
Thanks for your response.

[Art Walker]

If you're going to turn pieces that big regularly, you should focus in shopping on the ruggedness of the headstock bearings and beefiness of the tailstock casting, and don't even worry about the motor's power because you're going to replace it immediately with a used three-phase motor and a VFD, which you will program to spin up and down over the course of 5 or 10 seconds. The soft start and stop will be much easier on the bearings, the castings they're housed in, will allow you to get away with much less ballast in the bed and stand, and will present practically zero challenge to your existing electrical circuits. As others have said, you don't need very much power to counteract the power loss at the cutting tool, once you have the work spinning; the spin-up current surge is what was pulling your voltage down and led to the infant death of the HF motor. Your approach would be the death of many name-brand motors too, methinks.

Art