Clearvue mini cyclone design/build -Need Help- (pics)

[David Klotz]

Folks -

I am the new owner a Clearvue Mini CV 06 (similar in overall design to an Oneida Dust Deputy). It is paired with a brand new Ridgid 11 amp shop vacuum. Mods to the vacuum include:

1) drain outlet cap threads sealed with plumber's tape;
2) weather stripping added to top of shop vac bin for a better seal (substantial improvement in suction);
3) Ridgid diffuser/muffler added, stuffed with stel wool.
4) HEPA filter.

The run from the cyclone to the vacuum inlet is extremely short, less than a foot. The vacuum pulls like a freight train.

My problem is that the suction is so great the container beneath the cyclone collapses. My first container attempt was a Rubbermaid Brute 20 gallon trash container. The top is fabricated from 3/4" cabinet grade birch plywood, router grooved and weather stripped on the underside for a tight seal to the trash can. The cyclone is attached to the top with carriage bolts, and sealed with silicone caulk.

Even at steady state, no load running, the trash can will slightly collapse. Add a hose full of sawdust, and the can all but implodes (see attached pics).

So, I scrapped the Rubbermaid trashcan, and tried a 20 gallon, "heavy duty" galvanized steel trashcan. I fabricated a second top for that, and fired it up. Same bad result. Any suction load, and the can would resoundingly collapse. Noisier than the Rubbermaid, too.

So, then I e-mailed Bill Pentz. (God bless him and his free sharing of expertise.) He suggested an internal bracing system comprised of circular disks with vertical dowels running through them. I think that would work, but I think it will complicate emptying the container.

I also posted on the Clearvue site, and another gentleman suggested stave type bracing. That might also work, but even with superior grade adhesive, that barrel will contract under load, and I am concerned that just about any glue would fail over time. After work, a buddy dropped off a used fiber drum with a lever lock lid. I can cave in the sides of that drum with medium heavy hand pressure, so I doubt that will work without bracing, and I haven't built it up as a prototype.

Now, I see why Oneida sells their Dust Deputy with a steel drum!!
Can anyone make some recommendations on a container solution?

1- a five gallon bucket is too small.
2- I don't have an old shop vac canister to cannabilize.
3- McMaster has a 20 gallon steel drum with no bung openings and a lever lock closing ring for $82, plus shipping. I'd prefer not to spend that much, if I can help it....

Also, as can be seen from the attached pics, I have already made up a rolling cart for the cyclone and vacuum, and would like to stick to something that will fit the cart and the hose runs, around 23" high.

Any input would be most appreciated.
Pics attached....

[Jamie Buxton]

Make a plywood box for your chip bin. 1/2" baltic birch works very well -- that's what's under my cyclone. While you're at it, put an acrylic window in the side of the bin so you can see when to empty it.

[Rob Haskell]

plywood box here also, two sides 1/4 and two sides 3/4 for the 1/4 to attach to

[Tom Veatch]

Drop by your local salvage yard and pick up a steel 55gal barrel. A couple of months ago, they were going for $15-20 around here. That's less than what the materials would cost to build a box. That's what I use for my 5HP cyclone and there's no way you'd collapse it with the setup I see in your pictures.

[David Klotz]

Thanks for the help, Guys. I know a 55 gallon drum will work, but it's just too big and heavy for my needs.

Here in Upstate NY, a 4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" cabinet grade plywood from a good lumberyard (better than Lowe's or Home Depot grade, but not Baltic Birch, either), goes for $40 a sheet.

Granted, a sheet to make up a box is more than a surplus 55 gallon barrel (plus glue and fasteners) , but I can get the dimensions just the way I want them. I am presently inclined to go that route, and my first thoughts for the box design are as follows:

- 1/2" cabinet grade birch plywood all around
- lock miter joints routed on four vertical sides
- Titebond 2 or 3; or two part epoxy
- recessed cleats in the bottom and in the top
- bottom panel glued and screwed into the recessed cleats
- top lid grooved to accept weatherstrip, and attached to recessed cleats via wing nuts and epoxied in place carriage bolts
- all internal seams silicone caulked, "belt and suspenders'' style

Oops, that's a little work. Maybe a steel barrel, a jigsaw, caulk and three bolts isn't so bad after all.......

Thanks-David

[Jamie Buxton]

Your plan for the box is overbuilding it quite a bit, but if that's how you like spending your shop time, go for it.

To hold the lid on, you might use a trunk latch. It pulls the trunk's lid tight, and then snaps over-center to secure it. Here's an example:
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/40660/icn/20-896639/national/208_587.htm

[David Klotz]

Jamie-

Thanks for the trunk latch suggestions, though those look quite pricey to me. I think a credible alternative miught be a draw latch from www.McMaster.com (http://www.McMaster.com) , like # 1889A37: $4.66 .

As for "overbuilt", you may very well be correct. I'm already upside down on this project in terms of time. Now, I just want to get it done, and not have to look back.

Thanks for your input - David

[Tom Veatch]

David, just a thought, but you may not need any latches. I don't use any latching devices at all. I put a strip of thick closed cell weather stripping in the bead around the lid and when the cyclone turns on, the pressure drop in the drum pulls the head down tight with no leaks. A plus is that when I want to check the fill status, there are no latches to undo. Just lift the lid and look.

I was searching for some type of draw latch to cinch the top down and decided to try the weatherstripping without any holddowns. It works great. And, yes, I know there are no leaks because the loose barrel liner doesn't get sucked up into the cyclone even with the barrel empty.

[Ron Coleman]

Your shop vac probably will generate better than 80 inches of water pressure if you stall the inlet. That's a stack of water 80 inches tall pressing on every square foot of any container you use. Eighty inches of water equals about 416 pounds per square ft, or almost 3/4 ton for a 24 inch square. That's a lot of force for a flat sided box to withstand. The typical dust collector only generates about 10-13 inches of water pressure.

My 30 year old Sears shop vac will pull water straight up a tube over 6 foot long

You could put some stiffening rings inside your plastic or steel trash can. If you can keep the can from going out of round it won't collapse. I think about three plywood rings equally spaced between the bottom and the shoulder would work. Maybe make them from glued up scraps of plywood or osb.

[Rick Potter]

I bought a 20 gallon steel drum with steel lid and bolt tightened strap at a drum/barrel recycler. It had been cleaned and given a quickie paint job. Paid $20 for it.

I also have the Clearvue shop vac cyclone on it. Works great.

Rick Potter

[Tim Thomas]

Just thinking out loud here, but could you just brace the outside of the rubbermaid trashcan instead of the inside? I would think that you could build an exoskeleton out of scrap plywood that the rubbermaid can could fit inside of. Then you could attach the can to the bracing using screws through fender washers with a dab of silicone caulk on the back to seal the hole. At this point the can would be braced, but from the outside, so it wouldn't cause problems with emptying it. And it would probably still be lighter than a solid plywood box. It would take longer to build than a plywood box, but I'm willing to bet that it would be much cheaper.

Please remember that this is free advice and is therefore worth exactly what you paid for it.... nothing. :D

[Jim O'Dell]

One other thing you might check on is some of the car dealerships or better yet, the small detail shops. See if they have any 30 gallon plastic barrels that chemicals come in. They would probably give them to you for free just to get rid of them. I use a 55 gallon plastic barrel for my CV1800, and it works great. Not too heavy. You might also check Rubermaid's web site. They have some plastic liners for 55 gallon barrels that slip into the barrel. Might have the same thing for the smaller ones. Would make emptying that much easier. Jim.

[Ron Coleman]

On the Clearvue Mini gallery there are a number of ways people solved the crushing problem. One guy used a plastic trash can with steel hoops inside.

See the blue can in the center of the page.

http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/Mini+CV06/

[harry strasil]

just a thought but maybe the crushing problem is a result to the modifications to the shop vac, too tight. Round things were made to withstand pressure from inside, Vacum is a whole different story. I know I have built several septic tank pumper trucks. Last one was a used Stainless steel fertilizer sprayer tank, 14 gauge thick, at 3.5 lbs vacum it collapsed bang. filled it up with water and had the fire dept pressureize it to 125 lbs before most of it popped back out, then I reenforced it on the outside with 1.25 square tubing bands every 8 inches.

I just ordered the clearvue mini, and the instructions say the receptical under the cyclone should be tight, not super tight on the shopvac itself. Car dealer ships get gear oil in 15 and 30 gallon steel drums also. they just throw them away or use them as trash cans.

[harry strasil]

you might get some alum angle at a hdwe store or such and run upright ribs to the inside or outside bolted thru the big plastic container. better on the inside. even wood scantlings would work.

[Peter Quadarella]

I use the bucket that my pool chemicals come in. They have a twist on top that seems to be air tight. The only problem I had was the bucket falling over a lot, so I put 3 bricks in it.

[David Klotz]

Thanks for all the help, folks. I am very concerned about any approach that relies on an exo (as opposed to endo) skeleton. The force is suction, so with any exosekeleton, the weak points would seem to be the points where the skeleton is attached.

I think it is better to attach the support from the inside, but with an eye toward keepping the container easy to empty, and not dramatically increase the weight. (Too heavy, and you may as well have used a steel drum.....).

The best idea, IMHO, seems to be using steel bands, similar to wine barrel bands, but on the inside. I don't have any metalworking equipment, but if I can find some lengths of metal stock that I can roughly bend around plywood, then insert, bolt together, and epoxy to the inside barrel wall, that might work.

I am pinned down on the wrong side of a Honey Do list tonight, but freedom awaits tomorrow!

I'll let you know how I make out.

Thanks for helping the new guy out.

Regards-David

[harry strasil]

A little tip, don't waste you time putting thin bands on the inside or outside, it won't stop it from collapsing as it has no structural value. have you checked to see if you can find one of those blue or white plastic barrels things come in now, they are approxametly 1/4 inch or thicker side walls and you can cut the top out with a sabre saw leaving about a 3 or 4 inch reenforcement ring , they are realitively light in weight.

http://www.bayteccontainers.com/15gal.html

http://www.bayteccontainers.com/15gal.html

[David Klotz]

Harry, no disrespect intended, but I don't agree that internal bands can't add structural integrity.

You may wish to review this solution:
http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/Mini+CV06/
(View the Gallery titled "Another Mini with overflow protection.")

[harry strasil]

those bands are structurally strong, just thin flat metal bands against the side will have no structural value, anything you can bend easily with your hands flat against the sides is useless. you will find out if you try it.

no offense intended, just trying to help you not do somethng that won't work. flat bands will work well for containing pressure tho.

no more from me on the subject!

[Kyle Costlow]

I suppose I would just make a custom sized plywood box, I like the lowes birch plywood, its only 36$ per sheet, and its plenty strong. I would use dadoes, cut with a router, some pocket holes if you want, and maybe add little bracing triangles in the corners. Something like that might take 30-45 mintutes, and cost 40$(wood, glue, and silicone caulk) for attaching the cyclone, make a hole with a hole saw and drill.(if you dont have one it might be cost prohibitive, in that case use whatever you want:cool:)

[David Klotz]

ALL FIXED !!!!

After considering many design alternatives, I settled on intenal stiffening hoops, but the metal raw materials were too expensive.

I happen to live just outside of Syracuse, NY, home of Oneida Air systems. So, this morning, I was at Oneida Air at 7:45 am, and scored a nice 10 gallon drum from a Dust Deputy system ($51.00), brought it home, drilled three holes in the tope, caulked it up, and added the Clearvue Mini cyclone. As you can see from the attached photos, I am finally in business. It works fantastic.

I'm not sure what to call my rig, though:

1) The Ridgid Clearvue Deputy
2) Oneida's Clarivoyant RidgeTop
3) Mini Dustvue

Anyway, it now works great, and all I plan to do now, is to add a turned tapered post to insert the hose tip over; a couple of custom blocks to hold the vaccum and cyclone drums in place; and trim the cart down to a bare minimum footprint for mobility.

One concern I do have about the Clearvue Mini. This dust extraction cart is going to regularly be pulled around by the hose, like a shop vac. I am concerned that the cyclone inlet may not be strong enough to last through years of that. Has anyone rigged some kind of a portal to plug the cyclone and a hose into, that will relieve tugging on the cyclone inlet?

In closing, thanks to all who offere dinput on this project.

Regards-David

p.s. That's my British Lab, Diesel. He likes the new rig!

[Robert Payne]

David,

I think you should just spray paint the metal can White, especially if you post it again on the ClearVue site (BTW, I was the one that suggested the internal stays for your plastic bin); I'm glad you found a solution with more capacity that a 5 gallon joint compound bucket, which is what I use.