Guitar woods - rosewood vs. quilted ash back/sides

[Joe Pack]

I am just about ready to bite the bullet on a new classical/electric guitar. I have narrowed my search down to a Takamine EC132SC (cedar top, rosewood sides and back), Takamine EC132C (spruce top, rosewood sides and back), Alvarez AC60SC (cedar top, mahogany sides and back) and a Washburn C104SCE. I have played the first three, and will play the Washburn tonight.

The Washburn is available in two different wood combinations - a cedar top/rosewood sides and back and in a cedar top/quilted ash sides and back. It is the quilted ash that throws me...I am not familiar with this wood in guitars, so I have no idea how it affects sound. I will play one tonight, but don't know if it is in rosewood or in ash yet. They have only one, so I'm still going to be a bit unsure.

Does anyone have any direct experience with these guitars and/or woods that you can share with me?

[Steven Wilson]

My question would be what are you going after? Sound on stage playing jazz? Cool looks? Accurately amplified classical? Ability to handle tour abuse? For me, at this price point, I would try to select a guitar with the best compromise amplified/accoustic sound, well made, and that feels good. The species of wood used for the back and sides would be secondary. As for quilted ash, I haven't seen it offered in the guitars that I frequently look at; it maybe good, maybe not - more depends on the maker.

Steve
who still has a Takamine flying V accoustic (actually sounds pretty good, and looks very cool).

[Andy Halterman]

Hi Joe,

I don't own the Washburn model in question but I do have three acoustics from them. I have a late 80s US built extended cutaway dreadnought with some built in electronics (spruce top ovangkol back and sides, mahogany neck), a mid 90s auditorium style body with a cedar top and walnut back and sides/mahogany neck, and a cutaway jumbo purchased a couple years back with spruce top and quilted maple back and sides and maple neck and built in electronics. My lone Takamine is a 12 string cutaway dreadnought with cedar top and lacewood back and sides and built in electronics. All are steel strings. A man can not rightly flatpick bluegrass on a nylon string. I'd get shot for that. :-)

My favorite to play is the auditorium style. It has a unique sort of "punchy" tone to it. It doesn't sound like any other guitar I've played. I find it's uniqueness very appealing. It's a very comfortable shape and has incredible action. I'd imagine that quilted ash might be somewhat similar. The jumbo with the maple back has a BIG sound. Very smooth, not to bassy, not to many highs. It is just BIG sounding. I like the electronics setup as well. Both 1/4 and xlr outs. The eq works very well. The built in chorus is ok. Not great, just ok. The Takamine is a good guitar as well. It's a bit on the "tinny" side when plugged in. One needs to roll back the highs to get a good plugged in sound on that one.

As far as Washburn goes, I think they offer a great bang for the buck. Two of my guitars are Korean made and I have zero complaints with either of them. I tried out Taylor, Guild, Gibson and Takamine before buying my jumbo. The others were nice, but not $1000 nicer.

Anyway, good luck with your purchase.

I hope this helped at least a little.

Andy Halterman

Home for lunch in Hendersonville, NC

[Sam Chambers]

Joe:

I've played the Takamine EC132C and it played nice, but I really prefer a cedar top for a gut-string. I don't think I've ever played any acoustic with an ash body, so I can't really comment there. Ash is a nice tone wood for electric solid bodies though, as long as it's a lightweight piece.

The way I see it, if ash were a great tone wood for acoustic guitars, the manufacturers would have figured that out long ago and we'd see lots of ash-bodied acoustics. Plus, just because a particular species of wood works well for one type of instrument, that doesn't mean it'll work well for all. For example, years ago, I played a Guild steel string with curly maple sides and back. Nice looking guitar, but the sound was very thin.

Are you buying locally, where you can play the instrument before buying, or are you buying via the 'net? You can usually get better prices on the 'net, but you're buying blind (and deaf).

Good luck!

[Joe Pack]

My best price on a Tak is on the net...$790, including Tak case, 10 sets of strings, and a couple other freebies. Best price locally (Guitar Center) is $900 out the door. I hate to buy without playing, but they have a 60 days return policy, and will set it up to my specs.

My best price on the Washburn is $299 w/o case - almost $150 cheaper than I have found elsewhere. I even had the guy calculate the price again to make sure.

[Sam Chambers]

Joe:

Since you're looking for an acoustic/electric, the other thing to consider - and I'm getting a littel off-topic here - is the electronics. I've never been a big fan of the piezo pickups under the bridge, at least not by themselves. I've had a number of Ovations over the years, and they have a very harsh sound when amplified. But before you blame that on the lack of real wood in an Ovation, my Martin D-28 had the same problem. Then I put in an L.R. Baggs Dual Source system that has both a piezo pickup and an internal condenser microphone. I couldn't be happier. The microphone helps it sound like what it really is - a very nice sounding acoustic instrument.

Of course, putting a great pickup system in a crummy sounding guitar means you get an amplified crummy sounding guitar. So, first and foremost, be sure the instrument sounds good unplugged.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Takamine. They make very nice instruments. As long as your on-line vendor will take it back if you don't like it, you should be OK. Just remember that you'll have to pay shipping both ways, and shipping guitars isn't cheap. (BTW, you'll pay more to ship it back than they paid to ship it to you in the first place.)

[Steven Wilson]

Of course, putting a great pickup system in a crummy sounding guitar means you get an amplified crummy sounding guitar. So, first and foremost, be sure the instrument sounds good unplugged.


Sam, not all good sounding accoustics work well amplified, many are too boomy and quite suseptable to feedback. Martin D28's tend to suffer badly when amplified whereas OM's and OO's are usually fine. Takamine's electro accoustics generally work very well in a live situation. I have a number of friends that use Takamine's on the road and leave the Taylor's and Martin's at home for studio use. My current favorite accoustic guitar pickup system is a Fischman rare-earth blend; it's a lot more natural that almost every undersadle pickup system I've heard. I have one on my Taylor 810 and it's very lifelike (sounds like my guitar) and not unduly susecptible to feedback

[Sam Chambers]

Steve:

My D-28 is now 30 years old. Like all wooden instruments, it has a resonant frequency. Mine is around a low F. So, I generally avoid playing a low F! Of course, if another instrument happens to hit that same note at a high enough volume, and I'm not careful, it'll honk and feed back like crazy.

A band mate of mine has a Taylor, and his likes to get temperamental with low G's.

I've found that the #1 way to avoid catastrphic feedback with my Martin is not to route as little of it as possible through the stage monitors. I use a direct box and a little Peavey headphone amp connected to Sony earbuds for personal monitoring. That way, the sound guy can give the singers enough volume so they can hear me, which is not as much as I would insist on if I were relying on the monitor system, and I don't have any more feedback problems.

[Joe Pack]

Thank each and every one of you. I appreciate your advice and opinions.

As several suggested, I played each of the guitars on my list at least once, and most were played several times. I was able to play at least 2 of each except the Washburn, which was the worst of all. I drove 30 miles to play a guitar for 15 seconds.

The Alvarez was consistant among the 3 I played - not great, but, if I had not played others, not bad either. I would classify the ones I played as "good enough" guitars.

The Takamine was the biggest reach...I didn't need a guitar for that much money, particularly when I have a Gibson Dove and an Epiphone 12 string in the closet. But it was by far the "sweetest" sound, and, unlike the others, projected through the entire range of the fretboard. Volume and tone quality were by far the best, as you would expect for twice as much money.

The result....the Takamine. More than I needed, I know, but everything I wanted. To quote a good friend when I ran it by him, "How many times do you want to buy a classical guitar? Quit being so cheap and buy what you want now." The price was good, too. Guitar Center's "sale" price was $799, plus $120 for a very good quality case. Their "out the door price" came down to $900. I shopped the internet, finding regular shop prices to be just about the same as GC, but found an e-bay price of $791, which included shipping, original Tak case, several sets of quality strings and other misc. I went back to GC to try the Tak one more time to be sure, then asked my sales guy if that was their absolute best price... yes, unless I had something they could price match. So, we went to my "MY EBAY" page, found the auction I was ready to buy from. They said they could not quite match the deal, but, based on the e-bay price, could go to $830 out the door...essentially, tax was the difference.

Sold, if they threw in a decent strap and stand. It was worth it to walk out with THE guitar I played and liked, not one in the "factory wrap" that I had not played.

I was up-front with everybody from the start, telling each I was playing and comparing prices. Nobody had all 3 models in stock, so I spent 3 days and 200 miles trying guitars. Finally, I was pleased, and misled nobody. I feel good.

Thanks again for your help.

[Joe Pack]

Thanks, Andy.

I have played several Washburn steel string guitars, and liked most. The ones I didn't like just were not set up low enough for me...mainly played by "slap/thump" guitarists...if you don't play well, play loud!

The classical actually surprised me. I had read glowing reports about it, but I don't see where they came from. Even with new strings, it sounded dull and muddy. While they were finishing with the new strings, I had a ball playing some of their steel string models...bright, full sound, and very easy to play. I think their classical models are an afterthought.

[Jim Becker]

Joe, I hope you'll provide some pictures of that beautiful instrument when you have the opportunity. While the musician in my wants to admire the fine guitar; the woodworker wants to admire the fine workmanship and beautiful wood!