Join or Plane first ????

[Dick Heifner]

Hi All
What order do you mill your lumber, say it's S2S? Join or Plane first? I think it's easier to cut to rough length first, join one edge and plan to the thickness you want and then rip for the width. What's your plan of attack?
Dick

[glenn bradley]

I don't like to joint a longer board than is needed. I also cut quite a bit oversize so that's confusing. I don't trust S2S surfaces to be flat so face jointing is a must and usually comes first. Depending on the grain I may or may not thickness before edge jointing but generally it goes like this:
- Face joint
- Plane
- Edge joint
- Rip to width
- Crosscut to length

[Ron Dunn]

No matter what I'm going to do with the board, the first two operations are the same:

* Face-joint
* Edge-joint

That gives me two flat, square faces from which other operations (ie, resaw) can be done.

I face-joint first so that the larger flat face is the reference surface for the jointer fence.

[Matt Day]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if you're starting with S2S (Surfaced 2 Sides) doesn't that mean that it's already jointed on 2 sides, so you have a 90* angle established already)? If that's correct, why would you need to joint at all? Wouldn't you just plane the face to thickness, then hit the tablesaw?

[glenn bradley]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if you're starting with S2S (Surfaced 2 Sides) doesn't that mean that it's already jointed on 2 sides, so you have a 90* angle established already)? If that's correct, why would you need to joint at all? Wouldn't you just plane the face to thickness, then hit the table saw?

(read good humored sarcasm here) I may have gotten a board that was flat from the start once but, it was such a rarity I must've forgotten.

Seriously though, I would feel fairly safe saying that I have probably never gotten a board of any reasonable length that was flat enough to just use as is. S2S has been surfaced but, well just take a board and set it on your table saw top or other known flat surface.

[Joe Chritz]

S2S may just be skip planed which is primarily used so you can see the grain and figure better than in the rough sawn state. Like already stated it is unlikely that it is truly flat.

Joe

[Norm Roberts]

What Glenn said!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pat Germain]

Ditto that S2S is not flat. There are two good hardwood suppliers in my 'hood but all they sell is S2S. When I asked why I was told most of their customers don't have planers and like the S2S. Well, I don't see how these folks without planers are doing anything with S2S as is. It's nowhere near flat, square or perpendicular.

[john frank]

S2S in lumbermans language means surfaced 2 sides. S3S or S2S1E would mean 2 sides and one edge. Usually there is a dimension mentioned. S2S 15/16" would mean hit and miss planed to 15/16" S2S 13/16" would mean finished planed to 13/16". Most quality lumber suppliers do face joint their lumber. Pretty much all 2 sided planers have the bottom head first which will do as good a job of face jointing as you can do on your jointer.

[Simon Dupay]

A lot of people think that S2S means that they just plane it but in fact the machine they usally use is Facer-planer like a Oilver Strait-O-Plane or a northfield such as this one http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/doublesurfacers/240.gif























the first head has a capret feed that drags (not flatten) and faces the borad the 2 head works like a planer.

[Dick Heifner]

Thanks guy's,
On the s2s I was talking about being planed on both faces. They are very rough 15/16" thick. I like to joint the shortest board that I can.
Dick

[Quesne Ouaques]

I am really surprised that so many folks here do not get flat S2S lumber from their suppliers. I feel lucky!

I usually get my wood rough, but every so often I am in a hurry to get started on a project and I pay a little extra for S2S. The two yards closest to me both will face joint and plane while I watch and wait in the shop.

Granted, the surface quality is not quite what I get from my 13" Delta, but it is definitely flat.

[Peter Quinn]

Joint first...ask questions later.:cool::cool:

Guess if you can have a board S2S and straightlined while you wait and it comes out flat then that is ausome! The stuff I'm seeing as s2s might have been flat when it was just double faced planed but somewhere between the mill and my shop things got funny. When no one was watching the darn sfuff moved all over the place! My local lumber yard does not have a double face planer but will charge shop rate to flatten by hand.

Come to think of it I bought some African mahogony last summer for some windows I was making and was pulling from a 2000BF pack that had been custom milled incorectly for somebody else. The boards were 6/4 x 14" x 15' and had been double face planed to 1 5/16" for a guy that needed 1 3/8". It had just arrived within days and was being sold as 5/4. That was some of the flattest wood I have ever seen in a lumber yard, and I've seen quite a bit.

I guess when I'm looking at a double planer I see a machine that is going to make the wood 'flatish' but not truly flat over any great lenght. I find it hard to believe with the stresses being released all at once that many boards are going to come out as flat as a few light passes over my jointer. Maybe I really don't want to believe it.

Either way...joint first, ask questions later.

[Bob Feeser]

Here is a question for you. How do you handle Wood Mizer band sawn rough boards that are 12 inches wide, 96 inches long x 1 inch thick, with an 8" jointer? Planer is 12 1/2".
Let's say you need final boards that are 5" wide x 3/4" thick x 60 inches long. What would be your steps for that? :cool:

[Peter Quinn]

Cross cut one end clean of any checks. Cut to rough length 64-68". Joint one edge. Rip in half on the band saw or table saw, depending on how flat the board is (BS safer). Joint one face, joint one edge, plane to final thickness, rip to final width on TS. Cut to final length.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

[J.R. Rutter]

You will get more life out of your planer blades if you rip first and thickness afterwards.

[Bob Feeser]

I agree with you J.R, and Peter you caught the dilemma, having to rip cut the board first leaves you with the dilemma of it may be bent or warped, giving you a non flat side to rip with, causing you to risk a kickback. As you mentioned, the band saw is safer, although a lot slower darn it. Depending on the board, or if I can get a good enough side, I use the table saw. I must admit, sometimes I get lazy and if the board has a little rock to it, knowing I can hold it down on one side and it won't rock, I make the rip cut, and concentrate on keeping pressure on the side closest to the fence where it won't rock. I also do not cut it with the concave side down, like an upside down U, knowing that at the end of the cut, the board will settle onto the table, and press against the blade. A convex side, with the U facing up, and pressing the board on the side closest to the fence, the board will not move when the cut is finished. A fetherbord on the fence will help with that one. It is the only option that works. Of course a 16" jointer would be nice, then I wouldn't have to worry about it. But like J.R. says, I still prefer to rip and do some end trimming to get it down to size, not only does it save the planer blades, it saves time, both in planing, and emptying the shavings from the dust collector. One other advantage is that I like to keep unused stock in full 1" size until I am ready to use it. Keeping a freshly planed board flat is a challenge.