Zing laser from Epilog

[Michael Bareno]

Anyone noticed the new low cost laser from Epilog?
Just saw it on their website, just thought I'd let you all know...

Here's the link:
epiloglaser.com/zing_home.htm

[Dee Gallo]

Wow - and wow. They must be trying to fill the void between cheap imports and expensive homegrown.... lurking on this site, eh? Smart move on their part, too late for me, though. I just bought a new Mini 18/25. Talk about bad timing.

-dee

[Peter Meacham]

It is about time that an American manufacturer stepped up to the plate to combat the inferior and resource draining (job loss) influx of Chinese engravers.

Way to go Epilog - let's see Universal and other manufactures follow suit, start bringing industry back home where it belongs.

[Sean De Gazon]

Dee I certainly agree with you.I think they are trying to bridge the gap between the more expensive models and the cheaper imports. The laser tube in advertised as an all metal tube and the system seems to have some pretty decent features.This would be a good place for someone interested in buying a US brand machine from a company with a solid background and quite a few years of experience behind them. Unfortunately I also missed the boat, I received my Epilog mini 45watt just three days ago, I'm just waiting on my extractor so I can start burning stuff.

[Brian Robison]

Dee, I noticed it was quite a bit slower than your Mini, so your money was probably well spent in the long run.

[Vicky Orsini]

Stepper motors, too. I thought the industry was moving towards servos.

[Scott Shepherd]

Stepper motors, too. I thought the industry was moving towards servos.

Some are and some are perfecting high speed steppers. My stepper motors out perform my previous servo system and requires no cleaning of encoder strips. They are a lot less maintenance and they can be VERY fast.

This looks like a nice little system, but at that price point, you're still going to hear the familiar "US Machines are way overpriced" comments. It's double, almost triple the price of a Chinese machine, so expect the comments to continue.

We best be careful on what we ask for, bringing the prices down too low will end up with a "Pay per incident" model of service. The people making the machines, answering tech support phones, and shipping out spare parts all have to be paid a little more than the $1 a day they are competing against.

[Scott Lang]

I saw this machine in person this week in Vegas at the ARA show. It seems to be a decent little laser, but it is what it is. Its 25 watts only and only 30 inches per second.

But the big deal commotion at the show was the Universal's VLS 2.30 VersaLaser 25w was on sale for less than $5k. Even their larger PLS's were on sale, buy the platform, get a 50w laser for free. (but this was show only pricing, it ends on Friday)

To comment on the servo vs. stepper motors. This entire topic has gotten out of hand in the laser industry in my opinion. I believe the stepper motors to actually be the better alternative.

While servo motors are faster when doing a single "plate", steppers are faster in the large motion of a large area (most people doing multiples in machine anyway, at least you should be for productivity).

Steppers are safer by a large margin. If you had your hand or something in the way of a stepper, it will stop. Iv heard some horror stories about servos motor machines actually cutting and hurting people pretty bad.

Steppers are also fairly inexpensive when compared to servos.

steppers are more acurate than servos as well. servos were originally and still to this day mainly used for moving large heavy pieces.

I believe Epilog made a good decision on going to steppers.

[mike wallis]

Dee, I noticed it was quite a bit slower than your Mini, so your money was probably well spent in the long run.

Agreed Brian, the difference in speeds is staggering. My Mini 24 has the potential to run at a max of 80 IPS where the Zing is 30 IPS max. In many cases I find myself needing more speed to get through production runs faster. The comparison on the website is a great way to see the differences.

I believe the Zing has it's place though. Perhaps not in a production environment but geared more towards the hobbyist and weekend warriors.

[Scott Shepherd]

But the big deal commotion at the show was the Universal's VLS 2.30 VersaLaser 25w was on sale for less than $5k. Even their larger PLS's were on sale, buy the platform, get a 50w laser for free. (but this was show only pricing, it ends on Friday)

Wait until they release the news about their new driver coming out soon. It's a biggy. Can't wait for it.

[Scott Lang]

Scott, I know about the new driver as well and you are correct. It is going to be one of a kind.

[Dee Gallo]

Dee, I noticed it was quite a bit slower than your Mini, so your money was probably well spent in the long run.

Yes, Brian, I'm sure it was well spent too. I don't relish the thought of being "the first" to try a new machine, either... I'll leave the de-bugging to the experts.

- dee

[Rodne Gold]

If steppers are better than Servo motors , why then does the rest of their range apart from the Zing , use servos?
http://www.techno-isel.com/tic/H834/PDF/H834P041.pdf is a discussion on both

Anyway , there is a cloud on the horizon with low cost machines, this one included. The barriers to entry are dramatically lowered and the market gets flooded with startups who generally will ensure the price of bread and butter lasering drops and thus those with expensive machines are basically forced to follow suit in regard to pricing despite vowing not to do so. Margins drop and no one really wins barring machine manufacturers.

[Anthony Scira]

So whats so special about the new driver. I feel left out !

[Scott Shepherd]

So whats so special about the new driver. I feel left out !

It makes soft serve ice cream :)

[Dee Gallo]

Anyway , there is a cloud on the horizon with low cost machines, this one included. The barriers to entry are dramatically lowered and the market gets flooded with startups who generally will ensure the price of bread and butter lasering drops and thus those with expensive machines are basically forced to follow suit in regard to pricing despite vowing not to do so. Margins drop and no one really wins barring machine manufacturers.

Rodne, your comment is ominous for sure... But the price at $8000 is still more than a casual buy. I think that quality and experience will win out in this field of work - it's too exacting for the average Joe to "just try", like a new drill bit. Everyone I've talked to about my laser is either awed, intimidated or scared of it. Nobody ever said, "I've gotta get me one of those!" The combination of computer graphic skills and the operation/maintenance of a "LASER" is not attractive to the majority of people, it's over their heads. I went to a multi-trade show demo and of the hundreds of people watching, very few were interested in buying one, although they said they WOULD buy something made by one. I myself was fascinated but it took me 10 years to finally get one (used). It's a big leap unless you're already in the biz. Where I live (the outskirts of nowhere), vinyl cutting machines are still new technology.

Look at the Sears Compucarve, which is a lot cheaper than a laser and there are people debating whether to take the plunge or not... and that's a router, basically, something most woodworkers know about.

just my two cents, dee

[Scott Lang]

they have now incorporated a mixture of photograv and adromeda into their printer driver for engraving photographs. There is also another new feature called print growth. this is beneficial to those doing bar codes and other applications where you need a more precise engraving size. These 2 features were on display at the Vegas show and are to be released soon in the newest driver update. Personally speaking, I have a little first hand experience and these are going to be awesome!!

im not going to be the one to spill the beans on the confidential news, but take my word for it. Keep a close eye out on Universal, theres big things to come in the near future!!!!

[Lee DeRaud]

But the big deal commotion at the show was the Universal's VLS 2.30 VersaLaser 25w was on sale for less than $5k. Even their larger PLS's were on sale, buy the platform, get a 50w laser for free. (but this was show only pricing, it ends on Friday)I suspect the VersaLaser market is what the new Epilog is aimed at: same power, same bed size, even the same styling.

(Just wish that VL200/25-for-$5K deal had been around when I got mine...:eek::mad:)

[Paul Lee]

Here is what I saw at ARA. ULS new driver is really cool. It is the same driver across all models. ULS gave out a CD with all the new features on it. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it. This driver makes everyone else look so 70s.

Everything about there new driver is highspeed. ULS has done away with the old style CPU and gone to a direct interface with the PC. This makes connection lightning fast. You don't have to send your file to the laser and then start the job. You start everything from your computer monitor. There is a green start button on screen. The second you click on that button the job starts.

ULS Driver
1. Job estimator. Calculates your job time without running a file first
2. Relocate feature. You can move the layout inside the driver screen before you run the job. You can drag the image to an X/y point, or enter an x/y location and snap to it, or you can move the red pointed and have the layout snap to the pointer position.
3. You can now adjust your line size for burn growth. This is cool for bar codes or very small text.
4. Coming in few months, they showed a video of the photo feature inside the driver. You will be able to crop, scale and adjust photos them by selecting from a material list. Just choose black marble in the driver and it will correct your photo for the laser you have. You can then save the photo with settings to use it your application. No more Photoshop or Photograve
5. You can focus by color. Each color has an Auto Z selection. It you are engraving a 1/2" wood plaque and then want to engrave a .016 brass plate at the same time you can type in the thickness of the material and the laser will automaticly adjust to the material thickness for each piece.
6. The ILS machine has a radar range focus
7. There is a no home feature in the ILS. The laser head stays on target after the job is finished. You can engrave the inside of big bowl without the lens going back home.
8. You can save up to 2000 jobs along with their settings. The driver remembers the material, settings and focus. all you have to do is load and start.

ULS is way ahead of every other company I saw at ARA. Epilog is following the VersaLaser with the Zing ;it's a "Me Too" product. They added some color to their driver but they didn't add a thing to to make it better. Looks like the same old stuff.

[Stephen Beckham]

I'm a mini-24 owner so you know I have no choice of which I like better servo or stepper. I've a got a very capable system to perform the function I need!

But it's funny to hear (paraphrasing) "Finally Epilog as improved to the stepper" on the system that is compared to the Chinese systems in price.

Not to clear on the math, but improving the system with better capability but able to cut the price by half...???

Maybe they cut their price by stepping down to a cheaper - but proven - technology? How else would they lower the price?

[Kim Vellore]

Here is what I saw at ARA. ULS new driver is really cool. It is the same driver across all models. ULS gave out a CD with all the new features on it. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it. This driver makes everyone else look so 70s.



Sale....Anyone want an used Epilog. This software could make me switch without an eye beat. It would have made my laser buying choice a no brainer...
Does this driver/software work with older machines too. Backward compatible?

Kim

[Mike Null]

Paul

Based on what you described ULS must have copied the Trotec drivers. I believe everything you mentioned is already in the Job Control expert version.

[Paul Lee]

The ULS guy says the driver is new on the Versalaser and PLS. I didn't ask about older models.

I stopped by all the laser displays. I didn't see anything at Trotec that looked like what ULS is offering.

[Pete Simmons]

Photos on marble are difficult enough even after doing many of them with all the features of Photograv and Photoshop being used that I will wait and see how a semi-automatic system built into the driver works.

[Scott Shepherd]

Most of those features listed are already in the PLS systems and we've been using them, so nothing new there, but a couple of them are new.

I did a review some time ago about it all at the time I got my machine. If you're interested in how any of the features work, check out my old review http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=67576&highlight=PLS4.60

Stephen, I don't think Epilog's move to steppers was to a higher end product. I'd be curious to know the difference in those steppers versus the one's used by ULS. My guess is they are quite different.

If you do much research at all, you'll see that servos shine where there is a lot of torque involved, and the laser doesn't have the torque demands that would cause it to be superior. If you were moving something larger, then I'd say the servos are superior, but in moving light objects, quickly, the torque demand isn't there and it's a wash. Neither is better than the other, they are just different and sales people use that as a selling point because in general, we're all stupid and believe what they tell us (I believed them too!). Funny how most of us discount what salespeople tell us until they are talking directly to us, at which time we believe most everything they say :)

[Peck Sidara]

(Just wish that VL200/25-for-$5K deal had been around when I got mine...:eek::mad:)

Lee, I'm certain you're not the only one. I'd be pretty upset myself if I just paid 40% more for the same system recently.


Everything about there new driver is highspeed. ULS has done away with the old style CPU and gone to a direct interface with the PC. This makes connection lightning fast. You don't have to send your file to the laser and then start the job. You start everything from your computer monitor. There is a green start button on screen. The second you click on that button the job starts.

Sounds very user friendly Paul. May I compare this feature to a remote start for my electric stove? Sounds great that I can turn on my stove and start cooking that three course meal sitting on my Lazy-Boy...but don't I still need to get up, gather the ingredients and make sure I don't burn my fabulous meal or the house down?

Maybe I don't see the pro in this but as a daily laser user, I like to double-check a few things prior to me hittin' that green button.

Alot of the features that will soon be available on the up coming ULS driver is currently available in our standard driver which applies to the Mini/Helix/EXT and new Zing. As far as Epilog's new driver being just more colorful, I'd recommend checking it out again:

We've implemented new dithering patterns for photographs. My personal opinion on the new settings is like having Photograv within the driver itself. Photo engraving on substrates such as anodized aluminum, wood, granite, marble etc. can be adjusted in Corel and fine tuned using our driver.

One of the newer features is the center/center, left/center and top/center function. Very handy for those one-off jobs requiring a custom mark that doesn't line up with the top left hand corner of your CorelDraw page.

We're excited to introduce the Zing into the market and beleive it's a far cry from a me too product. The Zing is an entry level, high performance laser system and is made in the USA. It's geared for those who are looking for a low cost, entry level laser system backed by an industry leading company and has the look, feel, reliability and proven track record Epilog is known for. Not to mention the pretty good tech support.

[Lee DeRaud]

Lee, I'm certain you're not the only one. I'd be pretty upset myself if I just paid 40% more for the same system recently. In my case, "just paid" and "recently" don't apply: my Versa turned three last month.:cool:

I'm not complaining all that hard: what I really expected to happen was for the price to drop through the floor back in '05 right after mine was delivered.:eek:

[Peck Sidara]

In my case, "just paid" and "recently" don't apply: my Versa turned three last month.:cool:

I'm not complaining all that hard: what I really expected to happen was for the price to drop through the floor back in '05 right after mine was delivered.:eek:


Well happy belated birthday to your Versa then Lee. :)

So what do you get a 3 year old Versa laser for its birthday? Hopefully not a new laser tube...J/K guys:D

[James Mooney]

ULS Driver
1. Job estimator. Calculates your job time without running a file first


This feature alone would be enough to swing it for me.

[Vicky Orsini]

Rodne, your comment is ominous for sure... But the price at $8000 is still more than a casual buy. I think that quality and experience will win out in this field of work - it's too exacting for the average Joe to "just try", like a new drill bit.
For sure, there will be the occasional hobby person who has the means to buy their own new laser toy, but my biggest concern is for my industrial/commercial clients. The lower price might entice some of our customers to buy their own machine and run it themselves, rather than outsourcing the jobs to us.

[Bruce Volden]

OK, I can't wait any longer, somebody must have ordered one by now. Or perhaps a friend of a friend. I'll settle for viscious rumors :D

Anyway, any thoughts or reviews??

Bruce

[Roy Brewer]

...somebody must have ordered one by now...Bruce,

The Zing was, from the beginning, not scheduled to ship until late June. As far as I know, it is right on schedule. I've worked quite a bit with the prototypes; looks to be a terrific value.

[Bruce Volden]

OK, I can't wait any longer, somebody must have ordered one by now. Or perhaps a friend of a friend. I'll settle for viscious rumors :D

Anyway, any thoughts or reviews??

Bruce

Bump?? How 'bout now?

[Ed Maloney]

Any opinions of the new Zing 24? From a quick look it looks like they are offering higher wattages up to 60 as well now.

[Roy Brewer]

Any opinions of the new Zing 24? From a quick look it looks like they are offering higher wattages up to 60 as well now.Ed,
You'll probably think I'm prejudiced, but looks like another winner for Epilog. Stepper drives allows lower cost, but this even inclues Radiance Optics(TM), cylindrical attachment optional, some significant fire resistance/containment additions; pretty slick! Good observation on the "up to 60watts"...

[Keith Outten]

We've implemented new dithering patterns for photographs. My personal opinion on the new settings is like having Photograv within the driver itself. Photo engraving on substrates such as anodized aluminum, wood, granite, marble etc. can be adjusted in Corel and fine tuned using our driver.

One of the newer features is the center/center, left/center and top/center function. Very handy for those one-off jobs requiring a custom mark that doesn't line up with the top left hand corner of your CorelDraw page.



Peck,

It sounds great, where can I download the new driver for my Epilog Legend 24?

:)
.

[Peck Sidara]

Keith,

Unfortunately the latest driver offerings are available for current production machines. Zing 16/24, Mini 18/24, Helix, EXT and the FiberMark.

Ed,

In addition to Mr. Brewers' notes, we've implemented a nice drop down front door for loading of parts and a new variable fan control for quiet operation. The lasers cooling fans vary in speed/flow dependent on the strength of the laser signal. For most jobs, it's super quiet. On the Zing 24, there's also more z-axis depth, 7.5".

[Ed Maloney]

Keith,

Unfortunately the latest driver offerings are available for current production machines. Zing 16/24, Mini 18/24, Helix, EXT and the FiberMark.

Ed,

In addition to Mr. Brewers' notes, we've implemented a nice drop down front door for loading of parts and a new variable fan control for quiet operation. The lasers cooling fans vary in speed/flow dependent on the strength of the laser signal. For most jobs, it's super quiet. On the Zing 24, there's also more z-axis depth, 7.5".

Thanks Peck. I gave a quick look, but is there a comparison chart up on the Epilog site that shows the features across the product line including the new Zing?

[Peck Sidara]

Ed,

We've also recently released a new website that is easier to navigate and packed w/ more useful information. You can find a comparision between the Zing 16 and Zing 24 here: epiloglaser.com/zing_techspecs.htm

Differences between the Legend Elite series can be found here:
epiloglaser.com/legend_techspecs.htm

[Carol Barbero]

I recently saw this demonstrated. It is a great little machine. I would have purchased it but went with the mini because they don't offer the rotary attachment for the Zing yet. Also, you have to purchase the vector table separately.