Ferrell Rings Coming Off...

[Keith Starosta]

Good morning, folks. I hope I'm using the right terminologu here, but the ring at the top of the chisel...I think it's called the ferrell ring...:confused: :o ....is popping off of a number of new Robert Sorby chisels I recently acquired. What would be the best way to keep this from happening in the future? Maybe epoxy? Not sure...

Thanks in advance!!

- Keith

[Larry Conely]

I don't have any western chisels with hoops on the striking end.

I did have that problem with some Japanese chisels that had steel hoops. The solution is to soak the end of the handle in water for 24 hours. This will expand the wood and will also soften the fibers. While wet, carefully mushroom the wood over the hoop using gentle glancing blows. Work you way around the circumference of the handle. Since the inside of the hoops are beveled, they are wedged on. Works perfectly. I don't know if this will work on western chisels since they generally have a rounder top and I believe lack the inside bevel.

[Greg Cole]

Betting they won't fall off in summer?
Not sure what the right fix is, but epoxy should keep'em where they belong.

Greg

[Bill Houghton]

As most woodworkers seem to use the term, the ferrule is the ring at the end where the chisel blade goes into the handle, although the first definition in the online Random House dictionary would seem to include the ring at the striking end, too ("a ring or cap, usually of metal, put around the end of a post, cane, or the like, to prevent splitting"). Still, most folks seem to call this the hoop, as Larry Conely did, to distinguish it from the ferrule at the other end. Random House honors this practice with its second definition ("a short metal sleeve for strengthening a tool handle at the end holding the tool").

If they're new, why aren't you returning them for replacement? Seems like a new tool should come without this issue, unless it's intended to be delivered that way, as is true with Japanese chisels.

But if you decide to keep them, I agree that epoxy might help. Thin ferrules/hoops can be staked in place - struck with a center punch on the side, with the resulting dimple being matched by a bump on the inside to lock against the wood. I have a 20-30 year old Sorby carpenter's gouge on which something like this was done, but with a machine that knocked a triangular hole in the hoop - the metal's thick enough that a center punch wouldn't have done much. You could give this a try in addition to epoxy.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...unless it's intended to be delivered that way, as is true with Japanese chisels..."

Actually, while there is no good reason for Japanese tool makers not to deliver their chisels with the hoops already "set", there is a good reason to set them in the Japanese fashion which is, as mentioned, to "mushroom" the end of the handle over the hoop to prevent it from ever coming off again (this does not guarantee that the hoops will never loosen again, just that they won't fall off). The reason is that, sooner or later, any other method will fail. Epoxy, wedges whatever. Eventually they will come off again.

YM

[Bob Barkto]

The Sorby chisels should have a stake or dimple on the side of the ring.
Rotate the ring from the original position and restake them with a punch, or even better an old screwdriver.

They will still be loose, which is normal for a new hooped chisel, but they shouldn't fall off.

After you strike the chisels a bit the wood will mushroom and set them pretty tight.

I would avoid something as permanent as epoxy in case you ever need to rehandle the chisel and want to re-use the ring.




Good morning, folks. I hope I'm using the right terminologu here, but the ring at the top of the chisel...I think it's called the ferrell ring...:confused: :o ....is popping off of a number of new Robert Sorby chisels I recently acquired. What would be the best way to keep this from happening in the future? Maybe epoxy? Not sure...

Thanks in advance!!

- Keith

[Mike Henderson]

You really don't need those ferrules unless you're going to really beat on the chisels. And even then, if you use a wooden mallet, it's unlikely you'll mushroom the chisels handles.

I mostly make my own chisel handles and have never had a problem with the handles splitting, chipping, or mushrooming. And I don't put a ferrule (or hoop) on my chisels. Additionally, I don't think they look good with a hoop (or ferrule) - a clean chisel handle looks a lot better to me, and feels better.

Even the mortise chisels I have (pigstickers) do not have hoops and those are beat on hard.

Traditionally, Japanese chisels are hit with a steel hammer which does more damage to the chisel handle - hence the hoops on the top of the handles to keep the handles from splitting.

Of course, since they came with the ferrules you probably want to get them back to the "as new" condition. As others have suggested epoxy will probably work. Soaking them in water will probably not work - once they dry out they'll be back to the same situation (loose).

[an additional note: another reason I don't like hoops is that the top of the chisel handle is not comfortable in my hand when I'm not using a mallet (say, when I'm paring). I prefer a rounded top which fits into my palm without sticking me.]

Mike

[Robert Rozaieski]

Here's a note on these chisels from Lee Richmond at The Best Things:

Note: These chisels have a metal ring at the top of the handle that serves no function and is prone to falling off. No original "London Pattern" handle had this feature and we do not agree with Sorby's decision to use it. We strongly recommend that you remove these ferrules when you get the chisels and discard them. Should you chose to leave the ferrules on, we can not guarantee against them falling off. Because it tends to be more humid in Sheffield than most of the US, they will always be loose. (Some old chisels came with an iron hoop on top to prevent mushrooming. This ferrule does not serve that purpose.)

I would just take them off and throw them away as they seem to be more trouble than they are worth. I have the Ashley Isles chisels with the same handles (the same manufacturer makes the same handles for Sorby and AI) and the AI versions do not come with these rings. I have not missed them at all.

[Keith Starosta]

Here's a note on these chisels from Lee Richmond at The Best Things:

Note: These chisels have a metal ring at the top of the handle that serves no function and is prone to falling off. No original "London Pattern" handle had this feature and we do not agree with Sorby's decision to use it. We strongly recommend that you remove these ferrules when you get the chisels and discard them. Should you chose to leave the ferrules on, we can not guarantee against them falling off. Because it tends to be more humid in Sheffield than most of the US, they will always be loose. (Some old chisels came with an iron hoop on top to prevent mushrooming. This ferrule does not serve that purpose.)

I would just take them off and throw them away as they seem to be more trouble than they are worth. I have the Ashley Isles chisels with the same handles (the same manufacturer makes the same handles for Sorby and AI) and the AI versions do not come with these rings. I have not missed them at all.

Thanks for that info, Robert! And thanks to everyone else who responded. I appreciate it!

Regards,

Keith