Why you may be having trouble with Vista

[Jerry Allen]

http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9882192-56.html

[Ed Newbold]

http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9882192-56.html
Yep. Microsoft screwed up again, but don't ever think for a moment that the end-users (you and me) will ever see a rebate or refund for having to deal with a defective product like Vista! W\I think what we need is a class action suit against Balmer and company! :mad:

[Curt Harms]

Yep. Microsoft screwed up again, but don't ever think for a moment that the end-users (you and me) will ever see a rebate or refund for having to deal with a defective product like Vista! W\I think what we need is a class action suit against Balmer and company! :mad:

Their legal department. Mediocre products and EXCELLENT lawyers.

[Ron Dunn]

Oh, gee, guys ... you're knocking my pay cheque!

I've been running Vista since before it was released. I'm not one of the developers - live thousands of miles away - so my experience is close to that of most consumers.

Yes, I had driver problems. My Echo Indigo sound card, for example, wouldn't run. This was firstly because the vendor had not released drivers, but then because of a firmware error in the HP hardware - nothing to do with the lines of code within Vista.

The driver problems are almost entirely the responsibility of third-party manufacturers. Your Creative sound card doesn't work? BLAME CREATIVE, not Microsoft. They had technical data and full development support for over a year before Vista was released.

I do have a couple of complaints about Vista. It is SLOW to open the File Open/Save dialogs, and can be really slow to figure out how it is going to copy files. I'm told these things are addressed by SP1 (out now), but I've yet to see it.

What I really like about Vista is that - with the exception of the Echo/HP bluescreen I mentioned earlier - it has never crashed. Not once. With 100% reliability I can close the lid of my computer to put it to sleep, and open the lid to start it up. I couldn't do that with XP. I run demos for audiences into the thousands, and I've never once had a blue screen or an operating system component crash. I didn't have that experience with XP.

Vista works. Perhaps we need something like a gloat rule ... don't say otherwise unless you're prepared to show the first-hand evidence ;)

Ron.

[Tim Bateson]

I wish I had the same experience you had Ron. Please, I want my XP back!!!

I'm tired of "vista capable" applications that don't run right, screens that flash then automatically rearrange all of my icons, applications that can only be stopped/killed through Task Manager. Vista is a throwback to NT, in that it has to be rebooted every few days, or it gets too slow.

My Corel and PhotoGrav worked 100% under XP not so much for either under vista. A quick search of this forum will show the same experience for many other users.

Even my workplace (day job - IT) is moving to vista - if they can get it working correctly with the thousands of applications we use. They've been trying for nearly a year, with only marginal success.

On many systems today XP is no longer a viable option due to the back ally dealings that block some manufacturers from writing XP drivers. In the future we may see the reliability and speed of Linux, but for now we must live in this MS world. grrrrr

OK, I'll climb down off my soap box and say you're a very lucky man Ron.

[Ron Dunn]

Hi Tim ... look back over that post ... everything you reported there was a non-Microsoft problem ... Corel ... Photograv ... blame THOSE developers, not Microsoft.

It is also a fair bet that the problems your in-house application developers are having is because they (or their predecessors) did the wrong thing first time 'round.

Most of the Vista changes were to tighten up the problems that developers created around Windows applications. Remember when Windows was blamed as a security nightmare? You just don't hear that about Vista.

If you're having to reboot Vista, the problem is a 3rd. party application. Guaranteed. Here is a suggestion ... once or twice a day, open Task Manager, go to the Processes tab, and sort descending by memory usage. Send me a collection of screen shots, and I'll help you to identify the application/s causing the problem :)

As for Linux, how many "year of the Linux desktop" have we seen now? Just as there are still guys out there proclaiming the virtues of Betamax, I guess we'll have the same old Linux arguments for a few years yet. [putting on asbestos suit]

Ron.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Guys.....Let's keep it friendly.

[Ron Dunn]

Oh, I agree, Ken ... I didn't think Tim was being unfriendly, and I certainly didn't mean my reply that way.

Sorry if I've been too enthusiastic.

[Darren Null]

A Holy War! Hooray!

I vote for XP. And I only upgraded to THAT because USB things drop straight in and software and hardware stopped working on 98SE.

[Brad Knight]

I'd have to side w/ Ron here. I know it's popular to pick on MS, heck I think the Eu likes just taking their money to fund their... oh wait that's an entire different discussion... but think about what we the consumer ask of Microsoft. I'd be interested to know how many different applications we ALL run on Windows. I know I've got perhaps a hundred different apps on this computer. My work computer has a couple dozen.

What kind of hardware is in every one's computer? I know with my machine (which I built myself with off the shelf components and drivers) I have literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of different parts and pieces and stuff that I can add onto, plug into, attach, or run on my computer. Without having to rewrite the OS.

Now, I know you can't do that with a Mac. I know you can't do that with Linux.

Microsoft is put into a position where we, the consumer, wants it to be open enough to play with all of our toys, yet closed enough so that all of our toys don't crash the OS and aggravated just enough by a mix of ignorant (not necessarily stupid) users and jerks and butt-heads (don't know what kind of vernacular is allowed here) who want to hack, crack, phish or just break everyone else's computer.

I'm not a Microsoft cheerleader by trade or anything... they definitely have their issues just like everyone else. I just like to see a dose of common sense thrown onto the mass media mantra.

[Bill Cunningham]

I like most users, change operating systems only when forced to. By that time, all the new drivers are working, and the general bug shoot is over. I don't have the time to bugger around with things that don't or wont work. My shop computers run XT because they 'have to' and quite frankly, XT is better than 98, but it wasn't at first.. My house computer runs 98, only because it migrated from the shop when I upgraded. I don't need xt in the house, although I do miss some of the nicer functions like thumbnail view in windows explorer. The house computer is old, a lot slower, smaller HD, and incapable of running xp .. Windows 7 will come out, with all the fixes, drivers, and everything else running right.. I will wait for that, and upgrade when I'm sure I won't have to bugger around with things that don't or won't work and install it in the shop. My old shop computer running XT will migrate to the house, and the never ending cycle of computer life will start all over again.. And to think, I started this 'computer evolving life' with a 'Altair' and 8 switches back in the 70's :D

[Lee DeRaud]

What Brad said.


I upgraded two of my computers last month, both of the new ones came with Vista installed. The total list of 'problems' is as follows:
1. Glitch installing Corel X3 on the laptop. (Fixed by turning off virus scanning during installation.)


2. Six-year-old Canon scanner won't work with Vista, presumably because Canon isn't supplying driver updates for gear that old. ("Fixed" by moving scanner to remaining XP machine...more on that later.)


3. Four-versions-out-of-date copy of Roxio Easy Creator wouldn't install. (Fixed by using bundled software...turns out I like Media Player 10's library-management stuff better anyway.)


4. Three-versions-out-of-date copy of Visual C++ wouldn't install. (Fixed by downloading new version of Visual Studio Express...for free.)
Note that in #2-4, the software told me there was a problem, what the problem was, and suggested how to fix it, before it tried to install anything and (possibly) bugger up the system.

All things considered, I have worse problems than that just getting my body out of bed some mornings.

I mentioned that I kept one of the XP machines. It's now running the laser, since I've been told that the ULS drivers are not yet really "Vista-safe". I suspect I'll install Vista on that machine as well, once drivers are available: if nothing else, the networking stuff seems to be a lot more reliable under Vista than it was under XP.

Once you shut off all the Aero eye-candy and set everything to "classic" mode, Vista is really "XP SP3+"...which is a good thing. Remember how much better SP2 was than the original XP?

[Bill Cunningham]

Remember how much better SP2 was than the original XP? Ya!! but I lost the ability to see my .cdr file icons.. :mad: One of my main reasons for not wanting to upgrade is a lot of my 'add ons' are older and probably wont work any more.. One thing cured itself. My trusty old scanner (Sharp JX 330P) built like a truck, finally died after almost 15 years of reliable service.. Bought a Epson 'something-or-other' thats supposed to be vista compat. but at least it will scan film, and thats pretty neat, but it sure feely cheap and plastic compared to the old Sharp..

[glenn bradley]

http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9882192-56.html

Uh . . . because Microsoft is using their paying consumers as involuntary beta testers again?

You know this going in. I waited 18 months for the XP dust to settle before I let go of Win2K. I plan to give Vista another year before I dump XP unless they make a startling discovery that fixes a bunch-o-stuff at once. Just be patient Vista will come around but right now I don't have time to mess with it.

[glenn bradley]

Hi Tim ... look back over that post ... everything you reported there was a non-Microsoft problem ... Corel ... Photograv ... blame THOSE developers, not Microsoft.

I'm backing Ron on this one. If you went out and bought an Apple, would you expect all your existing XP software to run on it? Sorry for your pain.

[Tim Bateson]

Let me clarify - NEW laptop with mcrap vista preloaded. Both CorelX3 and PhotoGrav3 are NEW and "vista" capable. :cool:

XP was the best thing MS had ever produced. vista has some nice features but a big step backwords to win2000. One good thing was a slight Linux feel to it.

I once actually had a beta version of Linux that ran most all of ms programs - error free, twice as fast, and never errored. It was fantastic, until big bad ms sued the small Linux startup company. According to the suite, this Linux product would "confuse" MS customers. MS never said any code was used or infringements made, however this small startup could no longer afford to fight big ms and gave up. :mad:

Several years ago I tested the two products, on the same PC I dual loaded both XP and that beta version of Linux. A massive benchmark test that I wrote would take 24+ hour to complete on XP (remember I like XP). Linux on the other hand would run that same benchmark (same code & not recompiled) in less the 12 hours.

Linux may go the way of beta, but not anytime soon. ;)

Hey, Didn't this use to be a Laser Engraving forum? :D

[Dan Hintz]

I waited 18 months for the XP dust to settle before I let go of Win2K. I plan to give Vista another year before I dump XP unless they make a startling discovery that fixes a bunch-o-stuff at once. Just be patient Vista will come around but right now I don't have time to mess with it.

I'm on a Win2k machine right now typing this message (my main machine, to be exact, a 1GHz PIII with 768MB). I purchased the components for a new machine (2.66GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB, etc.) a little more than a month ago, which I intended to load Vista on, with this machine being upgrade to XP and running my laser cutter and vinyl cutter exclusively. I still don't have the new system running reliably due to all of the new-fangled overclocking possibilities, memory selections, etc. But for the hour or so Vista was running, it was a sweet looking piece.

I would continue to run Win2k on the new machine if it wasn't for the fact that I get unlimited licensing for my machines through work. I figured what the hell, I'll try it, but I expect issues along the way. SP1 for Vista came out a few weeks ago, but already there is a growing list of programs it breaks upon installation. From a business perspective, I can't fault MS for its shrewd business tactics, but as a consumer, I find major fault with the way it bullies small companies into bankruptcy and forces the average consumer to beta test for them and force substandard upgrades.

Eh, now I'm just rambling while I watch Toy Story... ;)

[Anthony Scira]

I had to get rid of all my old stuff. Printer, scanner and some old software.

But Vista runs rock solid for me. The only time I have to reboot is when you do the MS Updates and it forces a reboot.

Considering all the variations of hardware MS has to deal with they do a good job. Macs are pretty much tinker free. PC's are built to upgrade and remove and replace parts and who knows what parts people are going to try to throw in there.

Now as far as the Xbox 360 goes don't get me started !

[glenn bradley]

Let me clarify - NEW laptop with mcrap vista preloaded. Both CorelX3 and PhotoGrav3 are NEW and "vista" capable. :cool:

Ah, I mis-spoke. I'm getting a feeling from this thread . . . . "Vista, the early days" ;)

[Skip Weiser]

On the lighter side... after reading some of the posts here, this may sum up the feelings of some of the Vista users.

http://blip.tv/file/340692/

[Mike Mackenzie]

Lee,

We have set-up several systems with the vista driver all are working without any issues. If you want send me an e-mail and I can send you the driver.

[Chad Voller]

No matter what software you upgrade, you'll have some problems. It's rare if you don't, unless all you use is the applications that came with the OS, but who does that other than my Solitare playing mom? I myself will wait until my next computer build before going to Vista, just to be safe.

At work we upgraded our video editor PPC G5 to Leopard from Tiger, and I've never seen my boss so angry at a Mac. (he's a massive Mac fan who quotes Mr. Jobs daily) None of the Adobe software functions correctly, some won't even load, you can no longer access more than 10 computers at a time like you could with Tiger and a free piece of software, there's no iCal, it crashes, the interface changes that'll drive you mad, etc. Coming from Apple, where they say 'It Just Works'. Well, so far it doesn't. You could say it's Adobe's fault for not making their applications 100% compliant, or Apple's for rushing their operating system out to compete with Vista. So now we're left with either downgrading back to Tiger, or trying to reinstall every piece of software to see if that fixes the problem. And if any of you have installed OS X and Adobe's Creative Suite on a Mac, you know how long and boring that is. You have to sit there and verify every now and then that you want to install. I heard this was a complaint with Vista, funny that Mac's do the same thing.

With more people using Macs every day, and now with more hardware and software needing you to buy an Intel Mac (ZBrush, BluRay suport) they are not as upgrade friendly as their commercials make them out to be. Mac's also dropped classic compatibility, which is a huge pain for anyone that keeps archives of past jobs on old software, and can no longer access them without keeping an old Mac in the closet.

To sum it up, it's not just Microsoft, but any OS you buy that does a huge upgrade. There's always going to be someone that doesn't have a problem, and someone that does.

[Lamont Ellingson]

I noticed that Macs were mentioned a few times in this thread so I thought I would chip in my 2 cents. My history with computers goes back to owning an Osborne I (Early 80s).

I quit using Windows machines many years ago after a bad experience with mine having been taken over and used as file server by the internet dark side. Went to Linux for a few years then moved to Mac after OS X came out. Was thrilled with the introduction of the Intel processor because I knew what that would mean.

Anyway, long story short....

I use a MacBook Pro notebook computer for my main computer. I mainly do photographs and use PhotoShop CS3 (Mac version) to edit the photo then run CorelDraw X3 in Windows 2000 under Parallels to finish the photo and send it to the laser. This set-up has never let me down.

[Steve knight]

I have two laptops that were labeled vista ready I got free vista upgrades with them. neither one would fully work in vista. my sony vio was the best but the memory card reader would not work and a couple of other things.
vista on my work computer because I have not had the time to change it to xp.
what I hate are folders that are set for music when they are data folders. I changed one once but can't figure out how to change them. my whole d drive is a music folder if you believe vista.
oking things to run can drive you nuts. I have to ok firefox to start and everytime I click on a link.

[David Fairfield]

I'm always wary of a) brand new operating system upgrades and b) these types of discussions.

I only upgrade on an as-needed basis. I've optmized my computer system to run well as it is, upgrading an operating system will likely throw something in my computer's mysterious ecology out of balance. Plus, brand new software hasn't been consumer tested so it may have unforseen problems.

Regarding the Mac, don't believe the hype!

Around 2002 I purchased a powerful new Mac as its the industry standard for graphics artists and allegedly had none of the reliability problems of the PC. My machine never worked properly, it would regularly crash on Adobe Illustrator and destroy hours of work. And when it wasn't crashing, random files were so corrupted after saving, it was impossible to retrieve them. Naturally the Mac tech support people blamed the software, and the software tech support people blamed the Mac hardware.

The Mac internet forums were no good as Mac fans are so rabidly pro Mac, they denied I could be having the problems I described, and accused me of being a saboteur working for Microsoft, among other not very nice things. :confused:

As I had nothing to lose, I brought the Mac to the university and let a couple of pro-Mac computer students tinker with it. They upgraded the OS which helped but did not completely solve the problems. Apparently my machine suffered from a double whammy combination of hardware and OS defects.

After much time wasted with customer and tech support, Mac indicated I should send the machine in, but I would be liable for repair costs, which were considerably more than the price for a new PC. All through this experience, I felt Macs' customer service and technical department were lousy, at times bordering on the abusive. :mad:

So I ditched the Mac and got a new PC. Contrary to what Mac people say, the PC runs graphics programs like Adobe Illustrator as smoothly as the Mac did when it was working properly. A PC can do anything a Mac can do that's worth doing. I don't need the cutesy-poo features or the psychaldelic screen savers and sounds. I got a very reliable machine and I saved about a thousand bucks.

Never will buy another Mac product. No, no, no.

Dave

[David Darnell]

I'd have to side w/ Ron here. I know it's popular to pick on MS, heck I think the Eu likes just taking their money to fund their... oh wait that's an entire different discussion... but think about what we the consumer ask of Microsoft. I'd be interested to know how many different applications we ALL run on Windows. I know I've got perhaps a hundred different apps on this computer. My work computer has a couple dozen.

What kind of hardware is in every one's computer? I know with my machine (which I built myself with off the shelf components and drivers) I have literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of different parts and pieces and stuff that I can add onto, plug into, attach, or run on my computer. Without having to rewrite the OS.

Now, I know you can't do that with a Mac. I know you can't do that with Linux.

Microsoft is put into a position where we, the consumer, wants it to be open enough to play with all of our toys, yet closed enough so that all of our toys don't crash the OS and aggravated just enough by a mix of ignorant (not necessarily stupid) users and jerks and butt-heads (don't know what kind of vernacular is allowed here) who want to hack, crack, phish or just break everyone else's computer.

I'm not a Microsoft cheerleader by trade or anything... they definitely have their issues just like everyone else. I just like to see a dose of common sense thrown onto the mass media mantra.

Ummm, You might take a look at Ubuntu- so far I've had zero problems with adding any new hardware, or with it detecting any of my hardware. BTW, you can burn a live CD and try it for free. Comes in dang handy for the day you have a corrupted windows file and you HAVE to get some files off the system