End Joining Boards to Fix Mistakes?

[J. Z. Guest]

So, I rough crosscut a bunch of lumber for a project I'm working on to 1" longer than I need for each piece.

Only later, as I was laying in bed, did I realize I forgot to account for snipe that my planer gives. (I haven't jointed or planed it yet) I needed to cut them 6" longer, so I could cut 3" off each end. Damn. Too late now, and I can't go drop another hundred bucks on lumber.

So, the way I see it, I have three options:

1) Continue on and accept that the snipe will be in the finished piece. No one will notice it except me, I'm sure, as it isn't deep.

2) Mill it until the sniped portion is 3/4", and sand the middles down to match. (ouch, a lot of sanding!)

3) Cut off the sniped portions and end join it to cutoffs to get my final length.

#3 seems like the best compromise. I was thinking half-lap is a good strong joint for this. It would be no more noticeable than a finger joint, and at least as strong. (besides, I don't have a finger joint bit) Dowels would work, but would probably not be anywhere near as strong as a half lap or finger joint. Ditto for pocket screws in the end joint. I could make a sideways box joint and try to pass it off as decorative, but then I'm drawing attention to it instead of trying to make it blend in.

What would you do?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Pin some scrap piece of wood to each side of the project pieces. Let these scrap pieces need to extend beyond the project pieces by ...say 8". Do this to both ends of the project pieces. Now the "scrap pieces" will have the snipe and the project pieces shouldn't.

[Dale Lesak]

Rough plane to size and find someone to drum sand to finish size ("If you have enough rough size to do it") .Dale

[Wade Lippman]

If you are getting snipe that bad, you are doing something wrong. This might be the time to fix it.
I was getting bad snipe on my Makita 2012. Then I read the manual, adjusted the feed table, and the snipe just went away!

[Lee Koepke]

Pin some scrap piece of wood to each side of the project pieces. Let these scrap pieces need to extend beyond the project pieces by ...say 8". Do this to both ends of the project pieces. Now the "scrap pieces" will have the snipe and the project pieces shouldn't.
this is a good solution. if for some strange reason it doesnt work you still have the boards and all your other options.

[Mark Engel]

If you are getting snipe that bad, you are doing something wrong. This might be the time to fix it.
I was getting bad snipe on my Makita 2012. Then I read the manual, adjusted the feed table, and the snipe just went away!

I have to agree with Wade. Throwing away 6" of stock from every piece sent through the planer is unacceptable. I would concentrate on adjusting the planer to eliminate the snipe problem.

OR. You could justify the purchase of a new planer that doesn't produce 3" of snipe that would be paid for by not having to buy as much wood for each project. Yeah, that's it. That's definitely what I would do. :D

[Randal Stevenson]

Pin some scrap piece of wood to each side of the project pieces. Let these scrap pieces need to extend beyond the project pieces by ...say 8". Do this to both ends of the project pieces. Now the "scrap pieces" will have the snipe and the project pieces shouldn't.

Ken, there are two types of planer sleds. One that sets in the planer with a cleat, and the boards run over, and another I have seen, the boards are glued/attached to the sled and ran through the planer.

Do you use the later sled with this method, or does it work freehand?

Thanks

[David DeCristoforo]

Jeremy:
While I have to agree with those who have suggested that a "tune up" of your planer is in order, there is a way to prevent "snipe" that involves using some extra pieces of wood. If you feed a "sacrificial" piece of stock into the machine, letting the cutterhead "bite" the end of that, and then butt your "good" stock tight to the end of the sacrificial piece as it feeds into the machine, you will not get any snipe. As the stock feeds through, the sacrificial piece can be taken and butted against the trailing end of the stock to prevent the cutterhead from dropping off the end of your good stock. So all of the snipe will be on the sacrificial piece. You can only use the sacrificial piece twice, once with each end fed into the machine. After that both ends will be "sniped" and will then allow the cutter head to bite the ends of the good stock. Then you need to either cut the snipes off (if the piece is long enough) or use another piece.

YM

[Bert Johansen]

I, too, think you should fix the problem. Snipe is usually the result of the board drooping off the outfeed side. The fix is to raise the outfeed table until the snipe is gone. If your planer doesn't have an outfeed table, make one.

[J. Z. Guest]

Wade, Bert: I get snipe on both the infeed and outfeed sides. There are no adjustable tables on my Ryobi planer. I tried providing infeed and outfeed support, and the snipe is still there. I think the snipe is caused by flex somewhere in the machine. (cutterhead?)

I did read the manual, and the recommended cure is to cut off the sniped portions. (!)

Before I bought this planer, I read the reviews, and the reviewers at Fine Woodworking also mentioned that this planer sniped, and didn't mention a cure. They recommended it as their Best Value planer anyway, because of its clean finish.

Ken: How do I pin the scraps to the end of my workpieces?

Another thought: Could I joint the boards first, then plane them to near final dimension, then joint them to final thickness, after I know it is a uniform thickness?

[Karl Brogger]

Stop somewhere that has a widebelt sander and ask them to run it for you. People used to stop in all the time at various shops I've worked at to do this.

[Mark Engel]

I have a Ryobi AP12 planer and it has adjustments for the infeed and outfeed tables. What model Ryobi planer do you have?

One other trick that I have used to at least reduce snipe is to hold the back edge of the board up a little higher than the infeed table as you feed it in. Hold that upward pressure until the back side rollers grab the board. Reverse the process on the outfeed side, just apply the upward pressure on the board until it clears the cutter head.

[Bert Johansen]

OK, no adjustment for the infeed or outfeed tables. Attach runners to the edges of the board at both ends, and on both sides. Screw them to the edges if these edges don't show. Or, hot glue them. Make sure they extend at least six inches beyond the ends. Run the boards through the planer and the outriggers will get the snipe.

[Mike Spanbauer]

As others mentioned, attach some wood on the ends temporarily where the snipe WILL occur and then remove those after teh planing operation is done, removing the snipe with it.

You should investigate what's causing the snipe and correct it though, even if it means removing the outfeet table and creating a user made one.

mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken, there are two types of planer sleds. One that sets in the planer with a cleat, and the boards run over, and another I have seen, the boards are glued/attached to the sled and ran through the planer.

Do you use the later sled with this method, or does it work freehand?

Thanks

Randall,

It works free hand. Use say some finishing nails and 4 pieces of say 1x. Nail a piece at each corner of the project material so the 1x hangs beyond the end of the project material by about 8". Do that to each corner so you have the sacrificial pieces at each end entering the planer before the project material and exiting the planer after the project material. The snipe should be in the sacrificial material and project material should be good. NOTE...the sacrificial material must be the same thickness as the project material.

[Peter Quinn]

Funny thing is Ryobi actually invented the bench top planer and theirs was the standard for some time. Back when they were a young Japanese upstart company they were all full of quality and inovation. I have a pre-borg ryobi router that just won't quit no matter how hard I beat it.

Just goes to show you again what happens when the borg get involved. Non adjustable planers? I don't care how old it is, I'd put it back in the box, bring it back and tell them you want a different one!

[Greg Hines, MD]

Have you tried putting an auxiliary table to prevent the snipe? Even if the manual says that it won't prevent the snipe, I cannot see where it would make it worse.

Doc

[Howard Acheson]

You can avoid snipe by "railroading" the boards through your planer. Cut two scrap pieces about 10-12" long that are the same thickness as your boards. Now, get your boards handy and start one of the two scrap piece through the planer and butt the first real board against the scrap and keep pressure on the board. As the first board nears the end, butt another of your boards against the the first. Keep feeding boards in this manner finishing with the second scrap piece. Now, turn the boards over and do the other sides and continue until you have the thickness you want. Alway start and stop with the scrap boards.

You will have no snipe on your money boards. The only boards with snipe will be your scrap leader boards.

Sometimes, for narrower boards, rather than "railroading" them, I will start the next board through the planer when the prior board has about a foot to go. Just feed the next board next to the prior board so they overlap in the planer.

[Mark Singer]

Take it out with a hand plane

[Calvin Hobbs]

Just hit it with a hand plane, unless it's too deep it should be gone. No need for anything elaborate.

[Peter Quinn]

Have gotten over temporary borg rage...thinking clearly about the problem now. As Howard said the butt ended railroad technique will help, primarily if the problem is the head moving as this will keep constant up pressure on the head throughout the planing sequence. If this helps and the head is your issue its time to start saving for a new planer (assuming the bearings are not replacable on a lunch box).

If snipe is occuring at both ends its likely insufficient feed roller pressure or insufficient stock support or both. The first roller pushes the board down. The board hits the cutter head, then 3" later the board hits the second roller which doubles the pressure and pushes the board down further, making the head appear to 'rise'. All goes well until the end of the board exits the infeed roller causing the board to lift slightly, causing snipe on the other end.

The easiest way to solve this as others have said is to put slight upward pressure on the board both at infeed and outfeed to assist the pressure rollers. But how much pressure?

The most consistent way to apply upward pressure is to build infeed/outfeed tables (that support at least half the length of your boards) whose ends are raised slightly above the plane of the planer bed. It can be as simple as an 8'X12" rip of MDF or melamine slipped through the planer, clamped solidly to the planer bed on each side, supported by roller stands. Use shims between the roller stands and this board to adjust the angle at infeed and outfeed until snipe is illiminated. Plane a test piece to gauge performance. A little shellac/wax on the table keeps things sliding nicely.

Hope this helps. If this doesn't work, its time for a new planer.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Years ago I had a Sears/ Belsaw planer that did a great job but has a snipe That drove me nuts. I found that if I planed the boards end to end with no space between, I only got a snipe on the last board. The solution was a scrap as the last board. Get a friend to "Catch" so you can concentrate on feeding the stock accurately. When you are done, buy a new planer. Accurate stock, square and flat is the starting point to good joints. Every bit of snipe you can't sand or plane away will show up after the finish is applied.

Butch

[J. Z. Guest]

If snipe is occuring at both ends its likely insufficient feed roller pressure or insufficient stock support or both. The first roller pushes the board down. The board hits the cutter head, then 3" later the board hits the second roller which doubles the pressure and pushes the board down further, making the head appear to 'rise'. All goes well until the end of the board exits the infeed roller causing the board to lift slightly, causing snipe on the other end. It has got to be this, or cutterhead flex. People don't believe me, but I've tried applying massive upward pressure on the boards on both the infeed and outfeed side, and it has zero impact on the snipe. I apply this pressure by hand, and would estimate it at about 50 lbs. Since this didn't help at all, I really don't think it is a problem feed tables can fix.

I agree that I should consider a new planer, but it is going to be a tough sell to the wife. I'll probably need to deal with this for at least a couple more projects, and show some progress. And rightfully so. I've spent plenty of money on tools for now, and it's time to get to business, even if it isn't in such an efficient way as I had envisioned.

For those who have been through this before, what is an affordable planer that doesn't snipe? It seems like they start at about $400.

All I have, plane-wise, is a Home Depot 7" block plane, which needs sharpening. I don't think I can do the planing with this.

I'm going to try jointing the sniped face to bring it to final dimensions, and if that doesn't work, I'll try the "railroading", either with sacrificial pieces fore & aft or a long rail on each side.

I'll let you know, and thanks for all the advice Fellas.

[Kevin Godshall]

I think this thread has gotten away from the problem that was introduced. The snipe is there, now how to work around it or remove it.

To half lap the material makes a very obvious joint, unless you can incorporate it into the design of the project, I wouldn't do it.

If you are the only one that will see the snipe, it's hidden or in an inconspicuous area, I would leave it.

If it will be noticeable, especially if your staining the piece, I would try to blend it away by sanding it.

Remember, perfection is the enemy of good enough.