Hand Plane User in the Buffalo Area

[Matthew Poeller]

Is there a person in the Buffalo, NY area that knows how to use and adjust hand planes, maybe has some nice ones that I could try and is willing to teach me some weekend?

I have fettled with hand planes to no avail some time and I am about ready to learn the right way before I give up entirely.

[Stu Gillard]

Flick me a PM if you're ever in Canberra, Australia :D

[John Dykes]

Matthew -

I remember you posting some time ago... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=735925


I am about ready to learn the right way before I give up entirely.

Sadly, this is the decision I made some years ago, and the regret of those lost years is still with me. I encourage you to keep trying... I am the least skilled of those who frequent this board, but am willing to help in any way I can. Let's say - I've been there...

David Charlesworth videos were priceless to me - as was this board, and the many books I've purchased. I don't know what you might be struggling with, but I'm sure there is a way to get through it. Feel free to post on each step that you are unsure of.

Simply stated the miracle of technology has proved to be a boon to this apprentice, and you should take advantage of the same. To that end, there are several routes available to us -

1) Post a list (or pictures) of planes you've got.
2) We'll pick one and you can ship it to me.
3) I'll video the process of cleaning, tuning, and sharpening it.
4) I'll video how to use it.
5) I'll ship the plane, DVD, and wispy shavings back to you.

I don't know if I have any klunkers right now, but I can do just the video portion on one of my planes. Or I can buy one off ebay, perform the steps above - and ship it to you (at the ebay cost).

It would be tragic for one with a desire to learn - "gives up entirely." Again, you won't learn much from one of my skill level, but I might be able to help you over the "hill before the slippery slope..." The slope is easy - once you find it!

Let me know,

- Dykes

[Dan Racette]

Have you checked out the Mario Rodriguez video as well? I like David's videos very very much. But I also thought that Mario's videos were good too.

Dan

[John Dykes]

I have not, but thank you for the suggestion... To be honest, I've found DVDs to be my primary source of instruction (with books supplementing)- Tom Law, Frank Klaus, Chris Schwartz, Charlesworth... I've got the Kingshott 4 DVD set on the way too. Mario's are now added to the list...

Thanks again,
-jbd

[Eric Parham]

Hey Matthew, don't give up so easy. It really is not as hard as it seems to tune and use planes. What kind of planes do you have? Do you have any books about hand planes? Garrett Hack's book is excellent. I would be happy to help you out but I am all the way out in mass. John has some great ideas take him up on them.

-eric

[Matthew Poeller]

But I give up.....JUST KIDDING. This is something that I really want to learn. Especially since my wife is going to start working 3rd shift again shortly and hand tools are quieter than power tools and my shop is in the basement.

So anyway, it took me so long to post back because I was on a mission when I got home from work today.

I was not about to take John up on your EXTREMELY generous offer (the reason this sight is so amazing is people like you) without doing my due diligence. That last thing I wanted to do was send you a plane on to have you say that the fix was SO simple and I am an idiot.

So I got home, re-flattened the sole, frog, cleaned up the chip breaker again and sharpened the blade again.

Then I reset the frog, and reset the break on the iron.

[Matthew Poeller]

Made sure that the cap lever was not too tight and put the plane back together complete.

Then I started in.....

Now I have much better results today than I did last night. I cannot see any gouges in the boards, the boards are nice and flat (this was a glue-up that kinda went bad) and everything seems to be allright.

Now I am still not 100% that I am doing this right but I am hoping that from the pics you might be able to spot something that I am doing wrong.

The major changes made from last night (could any of these really made a huge difference?):

The cap lever is much looser now. I did not tight it up very much at all, just enough to hold it all together. (Does this really make a huge difference? It seemed to make the blade much easier to adjust)
I sharpened the blade again, but I contend that it was basically just as sharp before.
Flattening the sole again, I think this might of been some of the problem since it did need some work. I ended up starting at 180, going down to 120 and then back up again.

Things I am still not sure about:

My slices are paper thin but I cannot seem to get a slice the whole length of the board, is this normal?
I am not using the whole blade as you can tell from the width of the slice in my fingers. When I adjusting I was hitting the left side, then the right and then in the middle but still not utilizing the whole blade.
I am worried that I am missing somthing that is intuitive to someone that uses these all the time but I might have inadvertently screwed up when I took it apart the first time (like make the cap lever too tight).
In addition to that I was wondering about the depth adjustment wheel. Mine seems to have a lot of slop in it. Is this normal?

I will post some more pics of the rest of the planes in my arsenal (not worked on at all) a little later.

JOHN, I think that I may take you up on your offer but after seeing this what do you think would be best? For me to ship you this plane or for me to take some pictures of my others for you to pick one? Or have I finally caught on a little bit and not I just need to get videos.

I have the hand plane book by garret but I seem to be missing something and find the video that I have seen on the web from places like Hock and such to be much more informative.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Mathew you never told us how long you have been working with hand planes. They do have a learning curve. It took me almost a year before I figured everything out, and I am still earning new things every day. The problem with me is I am a very visual earner, so books and written instructions do little for me. Pictures and video are better, the best is if I can see someone do something. There are very few people in my neck of the woods who are inflicted with the neander bug, which delayed my learning curve even further. My other problem is I never take anyones opinion on face value, I challenge every established notion (width of the mouth, utility of the chip breaker, flatness of the sole etc.)
If I figure things out on my own I never forget them and I truly develop a deeper understanding.

Were we talking about you at some point :o

What I am trying to say is stick with what ever learning method works for you. The most important aspect of handtools I can tell you is that you must enjoy the process not the result. If you enjoy using a handplane (or a saw or chisel), irrespective of the quality of the shavings or the surface, you will continue to learn and stay engaged. If you become results oriented there is a possibility you might get frustrated and give up. There is enough wisdom out there to teach you how handplanes work, and you will eventually findout all there is to know. So I will not offer any technical advice, just that you have to enjoy the ride.

Check you local library for woodworking books. David Fink's book "making and mastering wood planes" has a very nice section on tuning a block plane. The principles apply to all hand planes. Garrett Hack's book is considered The book for handplanes.

[John Dykes]

I'm glad you posted those pictures and your efforts thus far - and in the detail that you did...

Firstly, that looks to be a 60's vintage Stanley Handyman (my assumption). My father just recently sent me one that he bought at Ft. Campbell, KY. Besides my father's plane, I have very limited familiarity with the Handyman (or that era of planes).

Forgive me for being blunt, but I think it's important - (I don't want to berate your purchase or tool) - it's commonly stated that this type of plane is of very (very) low quality. The difference between my father's #4 Handyman and a pre-WW2 #4 is considerable (in my single experience). Others here might be able to give you a more qualified and educated answer about this. I haven't even tried to work on my father's plane - and don't expect to. The frog seems like it's made out of tin foil compared to my others!

Point being, is your Handyman worth restoring and trying to make work? I honestly, do not know. Again, others will have to help here... I've seen the discussion go both ways. I have not restored a Handyman - I don't know the effort involved.

I can tell you this - your effort that you put into this already, would have already yielded great results on a earlier vintage plane. It would be interesting to see if you have any other ones to work on?? Take pictures of them all perhaps?

How flat is the sole? Use a marker on the bottom, and run it across the sandpaper (or whatever). Do the marker lines wear away evenly?

Flattened the frog. Looks ok to me I guess - (again, not a plane I've used). What about the frog mating surfaces (where it meets the body)?

Chipbreaker and blade matching up is probably alright for now. Front of blade looks fine; is the back of the blade flat and polished?

The lever cap should be - eh, fingertight to clamp up and down. Loose doesn't sound good to me... You don't want the blade sliding around in there.

To be blunt again, those shavings don't look too good to me. Make sure the opening of the mouth is, eh, 1/16th or so, don't project the blade too far...

It's late tonight, but I think Comcast gives me some webspace - I'll try to get a video up on it tomorrow. Things to look at, how to set up for a shaving, taking a nice shaving. Never tried making a video web page, but I should be able to get something together - even if it's pictures.

Really interested to see other planes you might have. The Handyman might be a tougher battle than some old rusty one you might have...

You will take a nice shaving....

- jbd von Denver

* Edit - in reviewing if I answered any of your questions...
- I'd keep the lever cap tight. Again, you don't want the blade sloshing around.
- My planes have "slop" in the blade adjustment.
- No, I honestly don't think you're doing anything fundamentally wrong... Point being, I don't know if I could get that plane working either. I'll work on my Dad's #4 this weekend and see. It doesn't have the original blade though....
- Are you sure the blade is sharp? Not "cut you sharp," but "shave" sharp. Not "scratch a few arm hairs off" sharp, but hairs glide off sharp.
- Next step - see if you have an old Stanley... if not, we can keep trying on this one (or perhaps what other folks might think is best). Or we can work through an ebay purchase. Or, hell for that matter, I can loan you one.

Yes, I take this personal. I gave up once...

You will take a damn shaving. :)

[Matthew Poeller]

Nahid et al, thank you very much. I am surely not going to give up. I know that I will be able to get this sooner or later. I do not give up so easily, I just say that I will out of frustration.

John,
I was wondering about the 'ol Stanley. It looked, at first glance to be in the best shape but I think that you are right. This one might not be worth it. I noticed some things last night that I thought were odd. The sole where the frog meets is painted. The entire frog was painted before I started to flatten. The bottom of the frog where it meets the sole is painted and I cannot do any real work on that.

I will tonight take some pics of the other planes that I have (definitely all in disrepair) and we will go from there.

Definitely do not think that you are being harsh. I personally think that blunt truth is the best way to get anything done. Who needs yes men anyway?

To answer a few of your questions though.
The lever cap was not loose enough for the blade to move when planing but I loosened it to the point that it did not take a lot of force to lock it down.
I will check the blade on my arm tonight. I sharpen with japanese waterstones to 8000. I flatten the back using Mr. Hock's method of setting in on a rulers and running it against the sandpaper.

I will say this. I was not completely satisfied with the plane operation but the results were nice. The boards are a glue up that was a little off. After the work with the plane they flat enough that I cannot see any glue lines. Something that would have taken good bit of time with sandpaper. With that being said, I am all in if it just gets better!!

Stay tuned tonight. I have a little bit of work to do on my house so that I can stay on schedule (read, keep the wife happy) but then I will be back to the planes.

[Steve Wargo]

Just a few hours away in Cleveland.

[jeremy levine]

Check here http://www.woodcraft.com/EducationClasses.aspx?StoreID=531 every so often. Or give them a call. It's only Rochester, not very far.

( University of Buffalo class of 88 8-) )

[Matthew Poeller]

Steve,

Thank you for the offer. I might take you up on that one of these days but right now I can barely find time to visit my folks on the weekends. I will surely keep that in mind though.

Jeremy,

One of my buddies mentioned that to. I looked but did not see any classes for planes. Do they offer them sometimes?

UB Class of '02 for Engineering
UB Class of '06 for MBA

Matt

P.S. I am still going to keep this thread going with John since it may turn out to be something very informative. Maybe we will have the change the name to Tutoring the Uncorrigable in Hand Planes.

[Joe Cunningham]

Matt I understand your frustration as I am going through something similar with my first bench plane (1930s Bailey#4). Strangely my borg block plane seems to do a better job. Sharpened both the same way, and the sole of the bench plane seems to be level (checked with a square).

Mario Rodriguez is teaching a hand tools class this summer at the Woodcraft in Manchester CT, I think I might sign up.

[jeremy levine]

Steve,

...

One of my buddies mentioned that to. I looked but did not see any classes for planes. Do they offer them sometimes?
.


Other WoodCraft have hand plane classes, so maybe they get some there.

[Eric Parham]

I have a #4 Handyman my father gave me a long time ago and it is dear to me . All I can say is it took me a lot longer to figure things out trying to use it. The quality is sub par, I put a lot of work in that plane and the results are better but not very good. I use it as a rough bench plane. My advice would be to try to work with something else if you can.

[Matthew Poeller]

OK, so here is the aresenal as requested.

From left to right on the first pic.
Stanley No5
Sargent (smaller and shorter than the others)
Shelton No14
Not Sure what this one is, the blade says Plexto
Stanley, No4? It is shorter than the No 5
Stanley, No5 with the Bailey Marking

The Bailey is the first one that I tried to rehab. I went through everything tonight on that one and the cuts are inconsitent at best, still. I can make a pass and not cut anything and then on the second pass without adjusting anyting take a huge gouge and then back to nothing.

I also check the blades that I have sharpened on the arm hair test and they do not cut the hairs. It just kinda pushes them over but the thing seems to be sharp. Just to go over the sharpening. I use waterstones. If the blade is in really bad shape I start with a 300 grit diamond stone. Then to the 800 grit waterstone, then to the 1200 grit and then 4000 grit. I have a veritas guide and angle stetter. I have the angle at 25 and then on the last stone I switch it up the .5 degree that it allows you to. The blade is near mirror finish when I am done and the same technique works very well on my chisels.

Anything sounding alarms this far? Any plane that I should start with or work more on?

[John Dykes]

I also check the blades that I have sharpened on the arm hair test and they do not cut the hairs.

That scares me to be honest... But, again blunty, that blade doesn't sound sharp to me. It just flat out doesn't. There is some difference between sharp on chisels and sharp on planes.

Before you beat yourself on how to "tune" a plane - or even tune another plane, get your blades sharp. In my opinion, you must be able to shave cleanly w/ a blade. My lower forarm is usually bald. Not scratched or hairs torn off, but smooth as a baby's butt. We need to get you there first....

Again, to be honest with you. I gave up on hand tools because I couldn't sharpen. There are methods, there are means, there is paper or stones - but David Charlesworth taught me to sharpen. Buy or rent the video from SmartFlix.... Or I can send you my copy for a bit. Just about every time I sharpen, I pop it in - and follow it EXACTLY - until it becomes second nature. Till then, I'll try to lay some of his points down...

He has two stones - an 800 (or 1000), and a 8000.

Make sure the back is completely and totally flat on the 300 diamond. The scratches must be uniform across the back. You can not skimp on this! The back must be flat - amen. Period. Get it there on the 300, if you want to take some of those scratches out with the 800 and\1200 - do it, but don't sweat a back polish... Yet.

Keep your stones dressed and flat so they don't dish. Hell, check them every five minutes if you need to. Overdo all these steps till you find out what sharp is.

Charlesworth likes a 23 for the initial grind, 33 for the bevel, and hone at 35 degrees.

You've got 25 - that's fine. Set that jig on 33 if you can, and cut till you get a wire edge on the back of the blade. Take your time - learn and feel what you are doing. Use a bright light or sunlight. Get a 33 degree bevel on your 25 grind. Just do it. :)

Are you keeping your stones flat? (W/ the diamond stone or 220 on granite). Keep them flat - every step of this.

Now, roll that wheel up to get the secondary bevel - I'd do the max one to get to 35 degrees. In my best Charlesworth voice, "You mustn't go steep'ah..." Rub 10 soft, caressing strokes backward on your nicely dressed, and flattened 4000. To be honest, I don't know if 4000 will give you a good enough polish. Woodcraft is having a sale tomorrow of 15% - go get an 8000. or a combo 1000\8000. They have 20% off in their catalog. I think an 8000 (or 6000) at least might help - how much, I don't know. Others might be able to answer that.

The back is now flat, dead flat.
The front you have at a 25 degree "grind" on the 300 stone.
The front you have a 33'ish degree bevel on the 800 stone.
The front you have a 35'ish degree secondary bevel that you honed on your finest stone.

Now - on your finest flattest stone (if you can go get one!) - turn the blade over and perfrom David Charlesworth's "ruler trick." Find it here - http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00177.asp

Point being - you just honed a very fine bevel at 6000 or 8000, now hone the back to that same polish. Use the thin ruler to tip up the back just a hair to hone just the edge. Two very fine polishes meeting at the egde. Sharp, shaving sharp.

Taking my son to the mtns tomorrow for the skiing.... hopefully this will help some. Sorry if it doesn't. We'll get there. If you can get a polishing stone, please do... :) The 4000 might be ok. I don't know - But, brother, I think your blade is dull (no offense of course).

Good luck!

- John in Denver

[dan grant]

you can purchase a replacement blade (hock etc.) and at least you would have a point to start from or a level to get to which ever way you want to look at it, good luck and have fun sounds like your addicted there is no help for you now:) dan

[Matthew Poeller]

John,

First off, I hope you had a nice time skiing with the fam.

So let me tell you. I took your sharpening comment to heart and vowed today that I would follow your steps and make sure that I had a blade worth putting in the plane. Of course you were not being coarse, just helpful in my opinion.

Started to flatten the back with 120 paper (since it was my opinion that if i had to go to 4000 it needed more help), then 220 and the onto the diamond stone. I actually took it one step further and went to the 800 stone because I can see what that does to the blade better. The back was completely flat. The I put that "already sharp" blade back into the jig at 25*. I took it all the way down so there was no secondary bevel. I wanted to start completly fresh. Then I went to 32.5* (what my jig allows). I actually did that one on the 1200 stone just for giggles. Then I dialed it up to 35* and got on the 4000 stone. 10 (probably 20) gingerly passes and then out of the jig to do the back with the ruler technique on the 4000 stone. Check on the forearm, very few hairs left. All the while keeping my safety glass and compound close to flatten the stones about every 5 or ten minutes or when I thought I saw excessive wear. Then into the plane.

Outstanding. 1000 times better than last night. Check out the PICS!!

Now I am not sure if this is up to par completely but I have to tell you that it is crazy what this thing can do. I flattened my cherry board and then the other side that I buggered up last night with the unsharpened blade. Perfectly smooth, perfectly flat.

What do you thing?

Some other questions:
How far do you go on the secondary bevel? I probably went to about .032". I imagine that over time honing you will have to put another secondary bevel on.
Do you start from the primary bevel everytime you sharpen or the secondary bevel, or just hone?
Do you flatten the back everytime you hone?
How often do you hone?

If this is considered a mediocre plane by neander standards I shudder to think what a good plane like a Clifton, Lie Nielson or Veritas could do.

If I used this sharpening technique on my chisels they would be even more dangerous than they already are.

One other newbie observation:
When purchasing a plane, factor in the cost of a new blade when buying as you may not have the time or the patience to take care of the blade, all told I probably spent 6 hours on the blade between the last time that I "sharpened" it and today.
While I am sure Garret's book is a great handplane book is does not touch on the subject of sharpening all that well, or at least not what I had read since that is where I got the 25 degree primary and 27.5 degree secondary that obviously did not work very well.
FLATTEN THE BACK, JUST DO IT AS JOHN SAYS. I seriously believe that was my biggest error.
While the 4000 stone is pretty good I will also purchase the 8000 stone. I believe that will make an even bigger difference.

Joe,

I to have a borg stanley low angle block plane (I did not disclose this on purpose since I believe in reading they work differently and can work semi well while not properly sharpened because of the low angle) that works pretty well, or so I thought. It works for what I have asked it to do which is not much up until now. I now know that needs to be sharpened properly. It is no where near as sharp as it needs to be to perform properly.

[Clint Jones]

How far do you go on the secondary bevel? I probably went to about .032". I imagine that over time honing you will have to put another secondary bevel on.
Do you start from the primary bevel everytime you sharpen or the secondary bevel, or just hone?

I use a MK II jig I put a 25 degree main bevel on plane irons and turn the wheel to the microbevel position and put a microbevel on with an 8000 norton followed by a leather strop. This has gotten my blades sharper than they ever did with scary sharp.

Do you flatten the back everytime you hone?

No. Although I do like to polish it every once in a while on the 8000 to remove any light scratches caused by the chipbreakers contact. Flattening the back should be a one time thing unless you use the ruler trick.

How often do you hone?

Whenever the plane is not doing its job. Hone as needed. I usually just run it over a strop with green honing compound as needed. Depending on what wood your planing or if its end grain you may need to put your blade back into the jig and rehone on your 8000 stone. This is what is great about the MKII you can get accurate repeatable results.

If this is considered a mediocre plane by neander standards I shudder to think what a good plane like a Clifton, Lie Nielson or Veritas could do.


A older stanley plane can do the job as well as an LN or LV plane. How do you think all the fine furniture was produced 100 years ago??? Old Stanleys and wooden planes

While the 4000 stone is pretty good I will also purchase the 8000 stone. I believe that will make an even bigger difference.


The 4000 will make your wood smooth. The 8000 with strop will make the wood shine with glittery sparkling smoothness.

I to have a borg stanley low angle block plane (I did not disclose this on purpose since I believe in reading they work differently and can work semi well while not properly sharpened because of the low angle) that works pretty well, or so I thought. It works for what I have asked it to do which is not much up until now. I now know that needs to be sharpened properly. It is no where near as sharp as it needs to be to perform properly.

If you are talking about the 60.5 block plane I have a few things to say. People give the new Stanleys grief (most have never even tried one but consider themselves an expert on the subject) The bench planes are junk JUNK. The 60.5 is a good plane. It takes a bit of love but I have gotten them to work great. Here is a photo of the new 60.5 tackling end grain on walnut. Slices right through.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/n5.jpg

[John Dykes]

Well done, very well done... I agree that it is 1000 times better. And you've learned, and you've had success – and it will drive you to more. You didn't give up – and that is the important part!


I've said that the “slippery slope” is often obscured by the “hill of sharpening.” I had a LN #4 that I hated for several years – till David Charlesworth taught me to sharpen. Yes, I have the Garrett Hack's Handplane book – and it's fantastic. From it I learned about planes – but not “how to plane” or how to sharpen for that matter. I also have the Leonard Lee book on sharpening. Yes, it taught be about sharpening, but not how to sharpen. Again, two amazing books that aided my quest further down the line, but weren't simple enough for a rock like me to get the basics early.


I'm glad someone of Clint's background posted. Given my difficulty early in my development, I wondered if I might be leading you wrong. Point being – his method differs from mine. I'd say that nearly everybody does something differently than the fella next to him. Pick something that sounds good to you, work on it – practice it. Then evaluate it a few months later... Clint does one way, I do another – and Marcus loves sandpaper for even the finest honing. They are all good methods, and I'd bet the blade result is about the same for each (of course spotting me a few points based on my lack of experience!).


Yes, you are 1000 times better, but – you will get better results each time you sharpen. You have learned, but you have further to go. Take care when you sharpen – feel what you are doing, think about what you are doing, and try to improve your results. It's practice. You will get better. I mentioned “scratching the hairs off” when testing the blade. Those were my first results... Yes, I could shave, but I wasn't quite there yet. Keep working at it. Again, I'd strongly recommend the 8000 stone.


Specific answers (what I understand from Charlesworth at least):


There are three bevel angles – I think you've got it, but let's make sure we don't get confused.


23 degrees – Grind angle
33 degrees – sharpen angle
35 degrees – hone angle




Resharpening: When your blade gets dull (and don't wait too long), go back to the 800 and sharpen at 32.5 degrees. Don't “rehone.” Flatten the stone, set the blade angle, draw the blade backward until you get a wire edge on the face (back) of the blade. First time you resharpen, it will be 4 or 5 firm strokes, the second time you need to resharpen 7-8 strokes, the 3rd time – 10-12 strokes. Point being the bevel at 32.5 degrees gets wider each time you sharpen. (When it gets too wide – feel free to regrind at 23 degrees until you get a wire edge from that regrind.)


After you get the wire edge from the 800 stone at 32.5 degrees – put your edge polish on at 35 degrees. Again, 10 “caressing” strokes on your superfine stone. As always finish the back with Charlesworth's “ruler trick” on the superfine stone.


Honing: Don't rehone. Resharpen – and hone that fresh sharpening each time. As Charlesworth says, don't wait too long – enjoy the break of sharpening. Think about your work, when you go back the blade will be fresh and razor sharp. It's a job he can get done in 4 minutes “including washing my hands and putting the stones away.” I'm not quite down to 4 minutes... :)


Back Flattening: As Clint says, no you won't have to reflatten the back – probably ever again. But you will have to repolish as the last step in every sharpening process using the ruler trick (or by whatever method you use).


If you are using the Stanley Handyman – yes, that probably is a tough one to get tuned. But any other vintage Stanley can work just as well as a LN or Veritas. (No flames! :) – it's close enough for me!)


My Charlesworth chisel videos are in the mail – looking forward to expanding my skill set too. He does say to never use the ruler trick on chisels. “Nevah chisels please...”


Last point – I still recommend the Charlesworth videos – or getting the book “Hand Tool Essentials.” After all this talk about sharpening, I almost never use a blade sharpened in such a way. I've learned that a cambered (curved) blade is a great tool to have. It was used historically, and I think it's important for nearly all handplane tasks. You almost have to see it done. And I'm not sure I have the words to detail it to you w/out pictures!


Good for you, it looks great. Well done.

- jbd

[Joe Cunningham]

Joe,

I to have a borg stanley low angle block plane (I did not disclose this on purpose since I believe in reading they work differently and can work semi well while not properly sharpened because of the low angle) that works pretty well, or so I thought. It works for what I have asked it to do which is not much up until now. I now know that needs to be sharpened properly. It is no where near as sharp as it needs to be to perform properly.

I sense more (and better) sharpening in my future. :D I figured since my chisels were working fine, my sharpening was good for planes. Sounds like I need go through these same steps.

[Matthew Poeller]

Clint/John,

Thank you very much for the replies. And yes, you are correct, I am sure that I am going to get better and better.

The plane that I did the proper sharpening on is the Bailey #5. There is not nearly as much slop in the depth adjustment as there is in the Handyman.

I am going to get the 8000 stone. I just do not have the funds for that right now. We are in the middle of re-doing the house with all oak trim and doors. That is setting me back a pretty penny right now. I think that I will end up getting some of the DVDs that you speak of as well.

I think that I have it too but my angles were a little bit different due to the limitations of my jig so it ended up being
25 Grind
32.5 Sharpen
35 Hone

Oh and yes, mine was probably a little more of a scratch than a shave but it is a lot better start than just malling them over with the blade.

Clint, Yes, I too believe that the Stanley block plane is a pretty good plane. I guess that my point was that it seemed to work pretty well out of the box but it could work 1000 times better if properly sharpened. That will be my next project.

Is there a book out there on "HOW TO PLANE" and "HOW TO SHARPEN"? Or are those mainly found in DVD form.

Joe,

Yes, I think that you are right with me on this one. My chisels worked fine so I thought I was doing a fine job sharpening. Definitely not the case. Follow the steps and you will get much better results with the plane.

Thank you very much for all your guys' help, especially John. Thank you very much for taking a vested interest in getting me to this point. I really want to start making some wooden planes but figured that I should learn how to use/rehab and old one first and get it working semi-decently so I know what to expect.

The last question I had was in the picture of my arsenal, did you see anything that was worth any money that I should not work on because they would loose value? I would actually sell them to someone if that was the case. The last thing I need is another collection of something that I cannot use.

Matt

[James Mittlefehldt]

I believe you said you already had the Garret Hack book so perhaps a video or two would be good rather than another book. Try a wood show as well with any luck you could see demonstrations of hand tool usage. I am going to the Kitchener Waterloo woodshow this month I hope, and as I recall there is quite a bit of hand tool stuff there.

I actually have a cousin not far from you in Wilson or somewheres around there but he isn't a woodworker though, as far as I know.

[Jim Koepke]

OK, so here is the aresenal as requested.

From left to right on the first pic.
Stanley No5
Sargent (smaller and shorter than the others)
Shelton No14
Not Sure what this one is, the blade says Plexto
Stanley, No4? It is shorter than the No 5
Stanley, No5 with the Bailey Marking

The Bailey is the first one that I tried to rehab. I went through everything tonight on that one and the cuts are inconsitent at best, still. I can make a pass and not cut anything and then on the second pass without adjusting anyting take a huge gouge and then back to nothing.

I also check the blades that I have sharpened on the arm hair test and they do not cut the hairs. It just kinda pushes them over but the thing seems to be sharp. Just to go over the sharpening. I use waterstones. If the blade is in really bad shape I start with a 300 grit diamond stone. Then to the 800 grit waterstone, then to the 1200 grit and then 4000 grit. I have a veritas guide and angle stetter. I have the angle at 25 and then on the last stone I switch it up the .5 degree that it allows you to. The blade is near mirror finish when I am done and the same technique works very well on my chisels.

Anything sounding alarms this far? Any plane that I should start with or work more on?

It looks like at least one of them has an improper lever cap.

Another looks like someone may have tried adjusting the blade with a hammer. The top of the blade is mushroomed. This seems to be from the pre-modern times neanders tried to adjust a plane as if it was a woodie without an adjuster. This could cause problems if the blade became bowed and is not seating well.

As you have discovered, sharpness makes the biggest difference.

Good luck,

jim

[Matthew Poeller]

Jim,

Yes the arsenal is in all sorts of disrepair. The Bailey #5 is the only one that has been worked on. And yes, that one might have the improper cap. I did not double check all the part since I did not think that someone was going to look that closely at it (very good eye). The were all in the forgotten blue plastic tub, mainly apart, until this request. The blade on one of them may have been adjusted with a hammer. I started buying these before I really knew what to look for.

Matt

[Jim Koepke]

From Ron Hock's web site.

http://www.hocktools.com/sharpen.htm

I also have one of Chris Pye's books on carving and half of it is the sharpening of carving tools.

jim

[Mark Stutz]

Matthew,
I've not added any sugestions, since others have been much more eloquent and thorough than I could have been. I just wanted to offer some encouragement...you are clearly going in the right direction. I do think you'll find the 8000 stone a nice step up from the 4000. Above that, most of the opinions I've seen are mixed, and I haven't tried it. I did notice a further step up by using a leather strop with gre n compound. I've been amazed at times by the degree that my definition of flat and sharp have changed over time. I've picked up planes I haven't used for a while, and realized how much I had improved with practice...and decided that the back need more work, etc. And don't get hung up on exact bevel angles...doesn't really matter that much on bevel down planes. As long as you're in the general range you should be OK. I do hope you can link up with someone and share the experience in person...it really does help.

Mark

[Matthew Poeller]

Mark,

Thanks for the reply. I kinda gleaned that from some of the different replies. I was not going to be too worried about the angles but wanted to be close. I think that the differences are shown in what John and Clint do while still achieving the same results I would imagine.

Matt

[Joe Cunningham]

Joe,

Yes, I think that you are right with me on this one. My chisels worked fine so I thought I was doing a fine job sharpening. Definitely not the case. Follow the steps and you will get much better results with the plane.

Matt

Yup, put in some elbow grease on my plane blades and got some nice shavings off my pine and red oak practice pieces.

Then went over to my resawn poplar boards for a box I am making, and planed them close to flat, to my 1/4" thickness marks (no tailed thickness planer for me yet).

Still not quite there with shaving my arm hairs (need to get some finer grit sandpaper or get some water stones), but a huge improvement.

Ahh, that Stanley plane sure works nice when the blade is somewhat sharp. Can only imagine how nice it will be once I get it as sharp as other posters suggest is needed.

I still think I will take that hand tools class at the local woodcraft over the summer.

[Grant Vanbokklen]

I don't know if I have any klunkers right now, but I can do just the video portion on one of my planes.

Do the video and then post it on YouTube and post back with the link.

[Jim Koepke]

I did not double check all the part since I did not think that someone was going to look that closely at it (very good eye).


The good eye has been trained by looking at poor quality photos on that auction site that shall not be named.

jim

[Peter Quadarella]

What do you guys think of the green honing compound? I've been using that to finish off my chisels but haven't started on a plane iron yet (just got my first plane and it's new and sharp). Is the compound on some wood good after a 4000 stone, or should I forget the compound and just spring for an 8000 stone?

[Matthew Poeller]

peter,

I would post this as a seperate thread if I were you.

I am not sure if anyone will be looking at this thread for a question like that.

Hind sight is 20 20 but this thread should be renamed tutoring a Newbie.

Matt