Shop Lighting - your input

[Andrew Thuswaldner]

I will be wiring up my 10' x 26' shop (with 10' ceiling) with fluorescent light fixtures. The walls will be drywall and some off-white colour. I'm planning on using the 4' fixtures with 2 T8 bulbs. The question is how many fixtures do I need for this size of shop? Thanks for your input, Andrew

[Don Abele]

Andrew, my shop is 24x24 with 10' ceilings and all white walls. I put in eight of the 4' double lamp T8 fixtures. It's really nice and bright in there, but I still find the need for specific area task lighting. Unless I run extension cords or put in more outlets, that's the most I could get in. I personally would put more in.

Be well,

Doc

[glenn bradley]

Lighting manufacturers have a formula. Workshops usually do more.

A = Height from work surface to fixture (usually about 6ft).
B = Distance between lamps (no more than 1.5 times "A").
C = Distance from fixture to wall (no more than 1/3 of "B").

I run T-8's. Three staggered over the TS/RT at about 3' apart. Two by the lumber rack, rolling tool storage area. Two near the BS, one by the doored cabinets, one over the DP, another 4' away, etc. Ten total plus task lighting in a 20 x 30 shop and need more.

Remember, if you finish in the same area you work; buy your lamp spectrum for finishing or you'll end up with really funny looking colors when your piece goes into someone's home.

[Tom Hamilton]

Hi Andrew: Fine Woodworking has an article on their web site about shop lighting. Basically, too much is not enough. The article is written by a lighting expert and includes the formulas for lamp placement from the walls and the repeat pattern.

At 10 feet wide I think the expert would recommend two rows of 75W T12s set in about 3 feet from the wall. And he would also say paint the walls pure white, semi or gloss for true color.

Shop building is great fun, enjoy the process, Tom

[Larry Nall]

My shop building is progressing slowly.
I've just finished installing the lights.
In a 34 x 26 shop I have 12, 4', 4 bulb, T8 fixtures with 6500K tubes.
Seems about right.

[Roger Bell]

I have a 24x24x10' with mostly white walls and a white ceiling.....with twelve double 48" T8's. Wish I had more. I wish I had twenty.

As a person ages, it takes quite a bit more light to see.

Put in more than plenty. You can always wire in pull switches to turn off those you don't want.

[mike wacker]

Using 2 lamp T8 Strips with light (Whiter the better) colored walls you can simplify the calculations to 50 square feet of shop floor per pair of lamps. Any one recomending 75W 8 foot Slimline lamps in this day and age of T8 technology should be shot or possibly burned at the stake for wasting Money and energy. Just my humble opinion.

Edit: A lower ceiling skews this some. The lower the ceiling the less oppourtunity for the fixtures to "share" their light, not to mention a low ceiling increases shadows. Don't be afraid to increase by 50% or more with very low (7.5ft) ceilings.

If you have a specific light level (Number of foot Candles) and a fixture picked out I can give you a pretty good feel for how many you need. This is my day job.

[John Scarpa]

I remember when I was discussing my lighting needs with a 24 yr old electrician. He thought I could get by with about 6 double bulb T8s. This senior citizen chose to go with 8 quad bulb T8's in a 20X23'. As mentioned above, older folks need more lighting. Wow is it ever birght in there with all of them on. ( I can switch on banks as I need them). Absolutely no regrets on that decsion.

[Jim O'Dell]

I have a 20 X 24 shop. I have places for six of the 4' 2 bulb units, and four of the 8' 4 bulb units. From north to south, I have 2 rows. Each row has a 4', 4', 8', 8', and 4' with the 8 footers in the middle part of the shop over the TS and BS. Then I have 4 pair of incandescent spots, 2 each over the DP, BS, TS, SCMS and the area that I will have the router table/jointer. Each pair of spots is on it's own switch close to that area. At 52, I'm definately feeling the need to have good lighting. And this seems to do very well for me. Since I have low ceilings (7' 7") I have my lights recessed between every other ceiling joists with arched reflectors that I had to build. It seems to work well. Jim.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hi Andrew: Fine Woodworking has an article on their web site about shop lighting. Basically, too much is not enough. The article is written by a lighting expert and includes the formulas for lamp placement from the walls and the repeat pattern.

At 10 feet wide I think the expert would recommend two rows of 75W T12s set in about 3 feet from the wall. And he would also say paint the walls pure white, semi or gloss for true color.

Shop building is great fun, enjoy the process, Tom

Andrew,

I bought the article from FWW. Jack Lindsey, a fellow Creeker, wrote the article. He points out a lot of things that need to be taken into account. For example, IIRC ...if you are under age 40 ....50 lumens...over age 40...100 lumens....He takes into account ceiling height, work bench height, etc. In short, my shop is 24x30 with 10' ceilings. I used 11 8' 4bulb T-8 fixtures. My SIL a professional carpenter just saw my shop for the first time....he was impressed by the lighting...no shadows. Jack also spells out the diffence in bulbs, ballasts, fixtures, etc. The article was in Jan-Feb 2002 FWW. Excellent article....I downloaded it for about $7 IIRC. Worth every penny! Have fun with your new shop!

[John Hain]

Andrew,

I bought the article from FWW. Jack Lindsey, a fellow Creeker, wrote the article. He points out a lot of things that need to be taken into account. For example, IIRC ...if you are under age 40 ....50 lumens...over age 40...100 lumens....He takes into account ceiling height, work bench height, etc. In short, my shop is 24x30 with 10' ceilings. I used 11 8' 4bulb T-8 fixtures. My SIL a professional carpentar just saw my shop for the first time....he was impressed by the lighting...no shadows. Jack also spells out the diffence in bulbs, ballasts, fixtures, etc. The article was in Jan-Feb 2002 FWW. Excellent article....I downloaded it for about $7 IIRC. Worth every penny! Have fun with your new shop!


http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=2771


This is the article you've referred to. It's the article I'm using to plan the new lighting in my shop. Articles like these are why I'll keep renewing my internet subscription to FWW.

[Dewey Torres]

Open the thumbnail. This is how I lighted my shop in VA. It was a 1 car garage so I had to work around the doors but the lights were outstanding. It consists of (2) 8ft double fixture fluorescents and (1) 4 ft double florescent fixture. Also, please take the time (or spend the $$$) to hard-wire all of the lights in your shop to one double switch. Trust me this will pay off. You will not want to go and turn on each light individually...even though the shop lights at Lowe's/Home Depot with the pull chain switch are tempting money wise.. every time you enter the shop you will hate it. One exception may be the task lights. Get electronic ballasts (cuts down on humming sounds) and if your shop gets cold pay attention to the temp rating for cold start. Drop me a line if this is helpful.
Dewey

PS... yes my avatar is me and David J. Marks

[Ken Fitzgerald]

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=2771


This is the article you've referred to. It's the article I'm using to plan the new lighting in my shop. Articles like these are why I'll keep renewing my internet subscription to FWW.

John,

That's the article.....very thorough....very well illustrated....very well written....Great article in my opinion. I used it to design the lighting in my shop and I"m more than satisfied with the results.

[Andrew Thuswaldner]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I downloaded the FWW article and it is very helpful as well as all your comments and suggestions. Andrew

[Brian Backner]

While the reference escapes me right now, I know that there are code limitations on the amount of lighting wattage for a given size of residential room - i.e., no more than 4,000 watts of lighting in a 200 sq ft bedroom (I just pulled the numbers out of thin air, so don't use them as a guideline). I believe this has to do with safety/fire considerations.

Does anyone know if there are similar restrictions for any of the following: 1) a home basement shop; 2) a shop in a garage attached to a home; 3) a free-standing residential garage converted to a shop; 4) an accessory building to a home built as a dedicated shop; or, 5) true commercial shop space?

Brian

[Chris Padilla]

Andrew,

For paint, go with as PURE a white as you can...it will help to reflect all that great T8 fluorescents you will be installing. I used an exterior grade semi-gloss white for mine. Boring as all get-out to paint but the results are fantastic...my shop is awash in light and no shadows.

I used the 8' T8 fixtures in my shop and put up 4 rows of them (8 total 8' fixtures) in a garage that is roughly 20x24. I have the smaller 4' ones placed here and there as well. I feel like I'm on the sun in there with everything turned on and I rarely need to fire them all up! :)

For the bulbs/fixtures, I got everything at the orange borg and I put in a mix of color temps for the T8 bulbs...I thought that would provide me the widest spectrum of light and it works for me.

[Andrew Thuswaldner]

Chris,
Is that a total of 8 x 8' bulbs or 16 x 8' bulbs?
Thanks for the tip on the paint color.

Andrew

[Mike Williams]

Andrew - I used the FWW article Ken mentioned above to design the lighting in my new shop. The main work area is 20' x 40' with 10' ceiling height. I am 57 years old, and definitely need better lighting than I did 25 years ago.

I installed four rows of continuous 4' long 2-bulb, T8 fixtures tight against the drywall ceiling. Both ceiling and walls are painted white. So with the rows of lighting being 36' feet long, I ended up using 36 fixtures.

The light is wonderful.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris,
Is that a total of 8 x 8' bulbs or 16 x 8' bulbs?
Thanks for the tip on the paint color.

Andrew

I spanned two 8' fixtures end to end, in 4 rows so I bought a total of 8 8' fixtures. Each fixture took 4 4' bulbs. That would be 32 bulbs! :eek: Like I said, I rarely turn them all on! :rolleyes:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris.....basically that's what I did. My shop is 24x30...I have 4 rows....3 rows of 3-8' fixtures...4-4' 32 watt bulbs per fixture. 1 row of 2-8'fixtures 4-4' 32 watt bulbs per fixture. Each row is controlled by a separate switch.

[Larry Fox]

My shop is about 28x14 with another little "notch" in it that probably adds about another 75 sq/ft. I have white walls and there are 8 8' fixtures with 2 8' T-12 Cool White bulbs in each and I have all of them on all the time and still use task-lighting on things like the bandsaw.

However, I like a LOT of light so your mileage might varry.

My general rule of thumb is - if you wonder if you have enough light, you don't.

[Robert McGowen]

I just took down 6 of the 4' T-8's in my shop and replaced them with 3 of the 8' T-12's. There is no comparison. I wish I had done it years ago.


Hmmmm...... I guess from the two posts following, I got it backwards.........Make that switched 12's for 8's.

[Eric Haycraft]

You replaced t8's with t12's? Why, they are not as bright and use more watts.

[Chris Padilla]

T8s are the schlitz in my book...it seems like one is going 'backwards' replacing T8s with T12s??

T8s are less noisy and come on instantly even when very cold. I believe that T12s cost less, however.

[Jack Lindsey]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments on my article in FWW. It’s nice to know that the information is being used and you are satisfied with the results.

I wrote the article almost six years ago and the consumer marketplace has finally caught up with 20 year old technology - - T-8 lamps. While these products had found widespread usage in commercial and industrial applications it was almost impossible to find them in retail outlets like “big boxes” or neighborhood lighting stores. Thus the article was based on the available T-12 technology which consisted of low priced but inferior performing 60 watt lamps, better performing but very expensive 75 watt lamps, and magnetic ballasts.

If I was writing the article today I’d recommend T-8’s for most small woodworking shops, both industrial and hobbyist. Why? Because they are a better product than T-12’s for most of these applications. There are several reasons, most stemming from the National Energy Policy Act of 1992, which banned the manufacture or sale of most full wattage T-12 lamps and replaced them with inferior performing reduced wattage T-12 lamps. It’s a long story so I’ll simply say it was a classic example of a political solution to an engineering problem and the consumer is paying the price.

The light output characteristics of T-8 lamps are similar enough to T-12’s to permit a direct one-to-one substitution for the numbers in my article. For example, if the chart calls for 9 T-12 fixtures simply use 9 T-8’s.

One caution. Many T-8 fixtures are provided with electronic ballasts. While most of them are of reasonably good quality some of the very inexpensive ones will drive lamps at significantly lower light output and may greatly reduce lamp life. I’d recommend staying with a major manufacturer with a proven track record.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I used 9 eight foot T-12 HO's for mine. I have a 25x22ish shop, and those 18 bulbs really light it up. I tried to post a pic, but I've lost patience with the stupid photo software I have. T-12 High Output fixtures use an electronic ballast, and will start fine in cold temps, down to zero I think....

I'm also getting a bunch of T-5 high bay mirrored fixtures for the big shop soon. There are some really great new flourescent fixtures out there now. These things put out the same light as those metal halide fixtures do, out of four scrawny little 4 foot bulbs. I know a contractor installing them in a bunch of big warehouses. I wonder how they might work in lower ceilings?...

[Bob Knodel]

I will be wiring up my 10' x 26' shop (with 10' ceiling) with fluorescent light fixtures. The walls will be drywall and some off-white colour. I'm planning on using the 4' fixtures with 2 T8 bulbs. The question is how many fixtures do I need for this size of shop? Thanks for your input, Andrew


I would say 4 if you use the right bulbs. I just changed out 8 of the 12 8' HO fixtures in my paint shop (I own an auto body shop) with bulbs from Lights by H&H. They are the VI-TEK 93+ bulbs and put out some SERIOUS, SERIOUS light!!!!!!!! I think my painters are going to end up with a pretty good tan with these things! I could not believe the difference between these lights and the standard 100 watt versions. The 8' versions were roughly $20.00 per bulb but come with a 3 year warranty. That was completely worth the $ for the amount of light that they put out. Our walls are a bright white and the lights are mounted at about 12'. You can check more into them at www.lightsbyhh.com (http://www.lightsbyhh.com). We have a rep that comes to our shop so we just order from him. Eventually we will have all of our shop lights replaced with these bulbs but I would go broke replacing all of them at one time. They are worth a look see.

[Andrew Thuswaldner]

I created a summary of the information I collected from the responses to this thread. I am using this to determine how many fixtures I need in my shop and I thought some of the other members might find it useful for designing their shop lighting. The table shows your shop area, the equivalent number of 48" T8 bulbs you are using and the number of bulbs per 100 sq ft of shop area. In the notes column I indicated if you were using something other than T8's and also if you had additional task lighting. And in the last column, my interpretation of your level of satisfaction with the result. If I misrepresented anyone, let me know and I'll fix it.

I have concluded that anything less than 5 T8 bulbs per 100 square feet is inadequate regardless of what your age is. No one complained about having too much light. To be on the safe side I am going to target a number of 8 or higher because I'd like to avoid the need for task lighting and I think I can make that work because of the small size of my shop (260 sq ft). This is actually in line with the rule of thumb (2 fixtures per 50 sq ft) that Mike Wacker posted earlier in this thread.

Thanks again for all of you input! I feel enlightened. ;) Andrew

[Brad Noble]

I have a 16' x 24' shop. I am currently using 14 4' 3-bulb T-8 fixtures and two 2-bulb T-8 fixtures. I'm 57 years old and as they say, more light is better. :D

14 of these fixtures are on three-way switches and operate on 240V. That was fun.

Brad

[Jim O'Dell]

Nice compilation of information, Andrew. As a side note, part of the reason I added the task lighting, was that some say with the flicker of flourescent lights, it can make a moving blade appear to be not moving, which could be dangerous. I have not found that to be true with my T-8s. So far, the only task lights I've really used are the 2 over the DP, and that's partially because it is against the wall and a little further away from the lighting. That could be solved in most shops with running the lights around the perimeter parallel to the walls, then using the lights in the middle in what ever direction you want. My low ceilings didn't allow me to do this. I have mine recessed up into the ceiling joists to save all the head room I can.
Jack, as I mentioned a couple years ago in a lighting thread, I also down loaded your article, and found it very helpful. Glad you wrote it. The information is still relevant today. Maybe FWW would allow you to update it with some current information on the lights that are now available? Jim.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Andrew, that kind of nails down a number per square foot doesn't it. 5 to 5.5 bulbs needs a bit of task lighting, 5.5 to 6 is ok light, 6 to 7 is great light. Sound about right?

[Jack Lindsey]

Thanks, Jim, glad that the article was helpful. I spent over 25 years in the lighting industry, both as an engineer for an electric utility and as a teacher in the community college and state university systems. I did a lot of product testing and evaluation, and designed quite a few systems.

During that time I developed several simplified estimating tools, which are explained in my book "Applied Illumination Engineering". One method is particularly applicable to small shops like most of us have so I'll explain it here. But first, some background.

Lighting levels are specified in units called “footcandles”. The quantity of light produced by a lamp is expressed in “Lumens”. One footcandle is equal to one lumen of light striking one square foot of surface area (your workbench, etc.) So, if we know how many footcandles are needed we can multiply the square footage of the area to be lighted by the desired footcandles to obtain the required lamp lumens.
Sounds simply, right? Up to this point it is, but beyond this it gets complex in a hurry.

First, you have to know how many footcandles are needed. Then you have to know how many lumens the lamp will actually produce when operated in the fixture. How many of these lumens will exit the fixture, and how many will actually reach the work surface? How much will the light output drop over time as the lamp depreciated in light output and the lamp and fixture surfaces become dirty? And a few other things.

All of these factors are considered in the design of a large lighting system since minor variations in any factor will influence the number of lamps required and thus fixture, lamp, labor, maintenance, and energy costs.

Fortunately our shops are small so we can do a lot of approximating and the number of fixtures yielded by the approximation and rounded to fit the space will be the same as the results of a detailed calculation. For example, in a 12’ x 25’ shop an approximation might yield 5.2 fixtures, a detailed calculation show 4.7, and the layout based on the space use 6 fixtures. In any of the cases 6 fixtures would be used since that’s what fits.

Ok, now for rule of thumb #1. When using an open fixture like a strip or an industrial. one half of the rated lamp lumens in the fixture will reach the work surface, based on light colored walls and ceilings, or light colored walls and fixtures with reflectors for an open ceiling. Use 40% if the fixture has a lense or diffuser covering the bottom of the fixture.

So, let’s go back to the 12’ x 25’ shop. First, how many footcandles. For a young worker doing rough work (table saw, planer, jointer, etc) use 50 footcandles. For us more mature guys or for younger ones doing detailed work like carving, set up, layout, etc use 100 footcandles. Since we usually do the detailed work regardless of age lets assume 100 for most shops.

Back to the 12 x 25 shop. We need (12)(25)(100)= 30000 lumens. Let’s assume we’re going to use a two lamp 8’ fixture with T-8 lamps rated at 5800 lumens each in an open strip fixture, so we have (2)(5800)(0.5) = 5800 usable lumens.

The number of fixtures, then is (30000)(5800) = 5.17. That doesn’t fit so we’ll use 6 mounted in 2 rows of three fixtures per row. Locate the rows 3 feet from the side walls with 6 feet between rows. As a general rule the spacing between rows should not exceed 1.5 times the distance from the work surface height to the fixture height. If we use a bench height of 3’ and a ceiling height the spacing shouldn’t exceed (7)(1.5) = 10.5’.

This post is getting pretty long so I’ll simply say that strobe effect, the blinking on and off that makes a moving saw blade appear to be not moving, isn’t a problem with fluorescent lamps.

[Louis Rucci]

My area was 32x28 and I had a local lighting company determine that I needed 16 2-bulb , 4' units for best illumination. We based this on pre-determined illumination at 36" off the floor with white painted ceiling and walls.

I'm at work and don't havethe illumination figure with me.

[Bob Justin]

Andrew,
Lots of good information and suggestions on lighting and paint choices.
One thing I remember from a few years back on using fluorescent lights in a shop area is that under certain conditions they could produce a strobe effect and the recommendation was that to reduce the possibility of this issue was to install lights using both legs (or busses) from the power source. Sometimes the sound of the motor running would be a good clue, but as I get older, I am noticing the hearing just isn’t what it used to be. :D
Possibly, the newer ballast design has eliminated this issue, but I also like the idea that when something trips a breaker, not all of the light go out at once.
In my 24 by 24 shop area I have 18 4’ 2 tube fixtures split between 4 breakers on 6 switches. I wish I had seen some of the planning formulas BEFORE I started installing the first fixtures some 30 years ago, would have made it much easier.

[Jeff Wright]

I will be wiring up my 10' x 26' shop (with 10' ceiling) with fluorescent light fixtures. The walls will be drywall and some off-white colour. I'm planning on using the 4' fixtures with 2 T8 bulbs. The question is how many fixtures do I need for this size of shop? Thanks for your input, Andrew

My shop is a 2-car garage, 18x24, with an open ceiling of rafters that are on the dark side. The walls are painted white and the concrete floor is painted a light tan color. The insulated garage door is also white. I installed 4 rows of two 8-foot T8 lights (8 total 8-foot units). Each 8-foot unit has 2 bulbs. Two of the fixtures are wired to a separate circuit to help insure some lighting if I blow a circuit (hasn't happened yet). My electrician said it was overkill at the time, but I am so glad I overrode his recommendations. My research supported what I installed, if not a bit more. I also have a 4-foot double strip over my workbench. Whatever you do, tend on the overkill side, especially if you are approaching my age (60). I suppose if I had to I could operate in my shop . . . but I wouldn't want to be the patient!

[Andrew Thuswaldner]

Hi Jeff,
I just want to double check. If you are talking T8's then I think you are telling me all of your bulbs are 48" long. Now, do the 8 foot units you have each contain a total of 2 48" T8 bulbs? This would mean you have a total of 18 T8 bulbs in your shop including the fixture over your workbench. Have I got that right?
Andrew

[Andrew Thuswaldner]

Hi Louis,

I am curious, how do you like the lighting in your shop and do you find it to be bright enough? Do you need additional task lighting? If I understand the numbers in your post then you've got the equivalent of 3.6 T8's per 100 square feet of shop area and most of the other guys with that level of lighting are wishing they had put more in. I am turning 45 next week and, while I still don't wear glasses, I am definitely finding that I need a lot more light than I did 10 years ago. (hey, maybe I do need glasses! :rolleyes:)
Andrew

[Andrew Thuswaldner]

Andrew, that kind of nails down a number per square foot doesn't it. 5 to 5.5 bulbs needs a bit of task lighting, 5.5 to 6 is ok light, 6 to 7 is great light. Sound about right?

Hi Steve,

I think you are on the right track but if you want to be on the safe side consider that both Chris and Larry have 6.7 and 6.9 and also have task lighting. And then there is Mike who has 9.0 and I don't know if he has task lighting but he seems pretty happy with the result. I really like my workspace to be bright so I am going to push to 7 or 8 bulbs per 100 square feet of shop area.
Andrew



So I think there is a number of factors such as personal preference, age, and then

[Peter Quadarella]

Andrew, I used the same fixtures in my garage/shop, which is 21'x21'. I used 4, and also have another fixture of 2 older flourescents; my lighting is good. Based on your size, I would do 3 fixtures. If you like it very bright, maybe 4.

[Mike Williams]

...And then there is Mike who has 9.0 and I don't know if he has task lighting but he seems pretty happy with the result...

Andrew - I do not have task lighting, and right now don't believe I will need any except for possibly some very detailed hand work. I also have the lights set up on four separate switches, so I can turn off some or most of it when it is not required.

Mike